Canada gets bleeped AGAIN!!!

[canso]

That was a fun day for Canadian soccer fans!

Seriously, misery loves company and I was in good company to share the misery that we all knew was coming.

One of my friends had just came over to Canada and had no idea about the CONCACAF inner workings and conspiracy.

He is a long time football fan, very knowledgable about the game and was shocked at the incompetence of the call, saying that was one of the worst he's ever seen. Just couldn't figure out what had happened. Well...did I ever have a good time helping him understand what he was seeing.

I showed him the rest of the whole sad story on youtube, the Attiba equalizer against the US, the Occean equalizer in Edmonton against Honduras and penalty call against Watson just before that...I then went on a rant that lasted most of the second half about Jack Warner and Chuck Blazer and the CSA and only stopped when I got to the part about Iain Hume getting carded because he had to leave the field with a cracked skull...that always chokes me up...

...gimme a second, I'll be ok....

ahh, there, anyways the next day I woke up smiling and realized that I am happy in my new role as The Canadian Conspiracy guy. Basically one of those tinfoil wearing crackpots who has lost grip on reality and is barely able to function in society. Tolerated, barely, by close friends who know better than to bring up certain topics.

I can hear them whispering in the next room, "Just don't talk about Canadian soccer and he'll be ok"

[coppercanuck]

The CSA needs to join another confederation. I really don't care which one ... UEFA, ACF, CONMEBOL or even OFC. concacrap is useless. Part of me agrees that we didn't do enough to win the game. The CSA just needs to get more games for the boys. Being part of CONMEBOL for WCQ we would play 18-20 matches. Sure beats 8.

[superbrad]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston

Agreed. I was at the match and had a very good view of the play. In my opinion, in real time, it was a foul. I saw Stalteri pull him down. Sorry I did.

As JamboAl and I said after the match, we just aren't that good. Service was poor and when it was there finishing was non existent. We must live with that.

When I watched the game, I was just as surprised as Sutton that a missed bicycle kick was called a foul. I didn’t see anything and assumed a goal kick was coming. With benefit of replay – you can see the ref made the call prior to the kick. Stalteri did not bring this guy down and by falling to perform the kick, the referee assumed that Stalteri pulled at his shirt. By the very good television angle, the Honduran was between the ref and PS so he would have never been able to seen a shirt pull – and he should have known none occurred as PS’ hands were in the air.

Where we can agree - is that this one penalty in and of itself did not cost us the game. In minute two Martinez was yanked down in the box (usual Honduran embellishment after the foul was commited) and we got away with one. (Hard to believe most of the media dwells on this controversy and ignores the bad call… http://goal.com/en-us/news/588/gold-cup/2009/07/18/1390549/honduras-hold-off-determined-canadian-side-in-1-0-match ).

Having said that - I disagree that Canada played like ****. I thought we actually played really well enjoying much of the possession, making wonderful crosses for chances, and crisp passing. I really liked the tactics, control the ball, make the easy pass if an option isn't realized, work it out to the corners, or play to the box where the player can either attack or drop it to a midfielder for a shot. I think the style works well and I think we were equally unlucky to score.

Where we were weak: We did not execute corners or set pieces well. The corners were surprising considering the quality crosses during play. They also failed to penetrate the box well - and quite frankly Honduras well defended against Gerba...he was non-existent unless you count the time he blocked the Simeon Jackson shot.

As far as other player evaluations…

McKenna, Simpson and Klukowski were very strong.

De Guzman was a little lazy in some of his passes but this is tough to judge because he was so key to setting up many of our plays. Overall a good game.

Sutton was very strong and did not give me the fits like he did in the previous two matches. He really challenged well two goals scoring opportunities on 50/50 balls - and his ball distribution was not circumspect.

All in all – a well played match by our boys. I’m proud of the tournament they had and disappointed by the bad luck. I hold this tourney as a positive going forward.

[Canuck in Boston]

quote:Originally posted by Keano

Bad calls happen. they don't effect good teams because they don't play the opposition close enough for a weak penalty or place kick call to matter. If we had buried 2 goals as the flow of play would indicate would have been a fair expectation, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Once again, lack of world class finish is the real reason Canada bows out.

Well said. If we had scored even one the point would be moot. Scoring one would have changed the tactics of Honduras. It just shouldnt have mattered.

[Canuck in Boston]

quote:Originally posted by superbrad

When I watched the game, I was just as surprised as Sutton that a missed bicycle kick was called a foul. I didn’t see anything and assumed a goal kick was coming. With benefit of replay – you can see the ref made the call prior to the kick. Stalteri did not bring this guy down and by falling to perform the kick, the referee assumed that Stalteri pulled at his shirt. By the very good television angle, the Honduran was between the ref and PS so he would have never been able to seen a shirt pull – and he should have known none occurred as PS’ hands were in the air.

Where we can agree - is that this one penalty in and of itself did not cost us the game. In minute two Martinez was yanked down in the box (usual Honduran embellishment after the foul was commited) and we got away with one. (Hard to believe most of the media dwells on this controversy and ignores the bad call… http://goal.com/en-us/news/588/gold-cup/2009/07/18/1390549/honduras-hold-off-determined-canadian-side-in-1-0-match ).

Having said that - I disagree that Canada played like ****. I thought we actually played really well enjoying much of the possession, making wonderful crosses for chances, and crisp passing. I really liked the tactics, control the ball, make the easy pass if an option isn't realized, work it out to the corners, or play to the box where the player can either attack or drop it to a midfielder for a shot. I think the style works well and I think we were equally unlucky to score.

Where we were weak: We did not execute corners or set pieces well. The corners were surprising considering the quality crosses during play. They also failed to penetrate the box well - and quite frankly Honduras well defended against Gerba...he was non-existent unless you count the time he blocked the Simeon Jackson shot.

As far as other player evaluations…

McKenna, Simpson and Klukowski were very strong.

De Guzman was a little lazy in some of his passes but this is tough to judge because he was so key to setting up many of our plays. Overall a good game.

Sutton was very strong and did not give me the fits like he did in the previous two matches. He really challenged well two goals scoring opportunities on 50/50 balls - and his ball distribution was not circumspect.

All in all – a well played match by our boys. I’m proud of the tournament they had and disappointed by the bad luck. I hold this tourney as a positive going forward.

Let me qualify my "agreed". I dont think we played like ****e, but I thought finishing was terrible, as indicated by the end result. We controled the play, but they dont give 3 points for that. I am proud of the effort. I just refuse to put the loss down to the referee.

[Canuck in Boston]

quote:Originally posted by superbrad

When I watched the game, I was just as surprised as Sutton that a missed bicycle kick was called a foul. I didn’t see anything and assumed a goal kick was coming. With benefit of replay – you can see the ref made the call prior to the kick. Stalteri did not bring this guy down and by falling to perform the kick, the referee assumed that Stalteri pulled at his shirt. By the very good television angle, the Honduran was between the ref and PS so he would have never been able to seen a shirt pull – and he should have known none occurred as PS’ hands were in the air.

Where we can agree - is that this one penalty in and of itself did not cost us the game. In minute two Martinez was yanked down in the box (usual Honduran embellishment after the foul was commited) and we got away with one. (Hard to believe most of the media dwells on this controversy and ignores the bad call… http://goal.com/en-us/news/588/gold-cup/2009/07/18/1390549/honduras-hold-off-determined-canadian-side-in-1-0-match ).

Having said that - I disagree that Canada played like ****. I thought we actually played really well enjoying much of the possession, making wonderful crosses for chances, and crisp passing. I really liked the tactics, control the ball, make the easy pass if an option isn't realized, work it out to the corners, or play to the box where the player can either attack or drop it to a midfielder for a shot. I think the style works well and I think we were equally unlucky to score.

Where we were weak: We did not execute corners or set pieces well. The corners were surprising considering the quality crosses during play. They also failed to penetrate the box well - and quite frankly Honduras well defended against Gerba...he was non-existent unless you count the time he blocked the Simeon Jackson shot.

As far as other player evaluations…

McKenna, Simpson and Klukowski were very strong.

De Guzman was a little lazy in some of his passes but this is tough to judge because he was so key to setting up many of our plays. Overall a good game.

Sutton was very strong and did not give me the fits like he did in the previous two matches. He really challenged well two goals scoring opportunities on 50/50 balls - and his ball distribution was not circumspect.

All in all – a well played match by our boys. I’m proud of the tournament they had and disappointed by the bad luck. I hold this tourney as a positive going forward.

Let me qualify my "agreed". I dont think we played like ****e, but I thought finishing was terrible, as indicated by the end result. We controled the play, but they dont give 3 points for that. I am proud of the effort. I just refuse to put the loss down to the referee.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston

Let me qualify my "agreed". I dont think we played like ****e, but I thought finishing was terrible, as indicated by the end result. We controled the play, but they dont give 3 points for that. I am proud of the effort. I just refuse to put the loss down to the referee.

Fair enough!

[superbrad]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston

Let me qualify my "agreed". I dont think we played like ****e, but I thought finishing was terrible, as indicated by the end result. We controled the play, but they dont give 3 points for that. I am proud of the effort. I just refuse to put the loss down to the referee.

I agree. We need to finish. De Guzman had an opportunity at one point where if he would have struck first time...who knows. He hesitated and attempted to re-adjust only to hit it into the shins of the defender. We need to be more confident on the ball and just keep piling up the shots...good things happen when your in the box, (no pun intended).

[trueviking]

dissolve CONCACAF, move the US and Canada to UEFA along with 2 qualifying spots....move Mexico and all the cheating central american sides to CONMEBOL along with 1 1/2 qualifying spots so they can all roll around on the pitch in false anguish together.

if FIFA wont agree then we should invade Greenland to claim our stake in Europe.

[Soju]

^but the real question is, where would Belize go?

[earlimus]

I just watched the reply about ten times on youtube.

It was no foul, so the ref is an idiot no matter what.

It was however a horrible play by Stalteri and I wouldn't be surprised with that getting called for a handball in any game. He had his hands way out wide (ie. not protecting his face), and it coincided with the guys kick. What the hell was Stalteri thinking? Why the hell are so many people here pissed off at anyone other than him?

I take that back. The ref again is an idiot for calling a foul, but he wouldn't have been totally wrong calling handball. Go and look at the video. Stalteri changes direction of the ball. Maybe it was with his head, but his hands are up around his noodle anyways so it can easily be called for handball.

I didn't see the game, but after watching that I don't know what the hell people are bitching for. Horrible play by our captain.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by trueviking

dissolve CONCACAF, move the US and Canada to UEFA along with 2 qualifying spots....move Mexico and all the cheating central american sides to CONMEBOL along with 1 1/2 qualifying spots so they can all roll around on the pitch in false anguish together.

if FIFA wont agree then we should invade Greenland to claim our stake in Europe.

The only thing that FIFA will agree on is dissolving CONCACAF and every team going into CONMEBOL. Didn't Blatter even consider the Americas one confederation in terms of his joke of a rotation policy? If that's the case, I have no problem with making the Americas one confederation.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

The only thing that FIFA will agree on is dissolving CONCACAF and every team going into CONMEBOL. Didn't Blatter even consider the Americas one confederation in terms of his joke of a rotation policy? If that's the case, I have no problem with making the Americas one confederation.

Why does everyone think that CONMEBOL is so much better for us?

Will we get less screwed by South American & Central American refs?

I am not suggesting anything, but is there less evidence of corruption

in South America? And if such "Americas" group does happen, how

would we feel if the 8 possible WC entries would be ALL from South

America (except maybe one)? How can Canada get a shot, if we can't

beat Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Peru, ... or Honduras?

If the problem is CONCACAF let the CSA bring it up to fix it.

If the problem is officiating, let FIFA evaluate the competency.

And if the problem is the way we play, let's adjust when it needs

to be improved.

This was a painful, learning experience. But still a learning experience.

[kcisoul]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Personally, I think the forum should ALLOW swearing on game days.

haha same here, I actually try not to swear but i have been watching a lot of Entourage and it is making me have a foul mouth.

I was reading a book "bloody confused" and it says that there is a lot of swearing in the statiums in England but the kids are told that swearing is ok only in the statium, or somthing to that nature.

[loyola]

Ok, I take a few minutes off my precious vacations time to say this about THE CALL. I was at a soccer tournament during the week end, we were 9 players in one of hotel room watching the game. Among them, I'm the only one following Canada religiously but everyone enjoyed the game.

About the PK, 5 players thought it was a bad call, 3 thought Stalteri had a hand on the Honduran and it was the correct call. Myself, I thought it was the correct call. 5 v. 4.

I don't know what kind of conclusion you can make from that, maybe just that it was debatable. I think it's a gutsy call to make because it didn't look like a PK but it doresn't mean there were no foul commited. IMO, Stalteri is pulling the guy arm before he tried the bicycle kick.

Anyways, this was Honduras B team and we had our A team out there. We should be able to overcome that kind of stuff. But as proven over the years we can't overcome a ref mistake/harsh decision nor our own players mistakes (ie: Onstad vs Jamaica) when it counts. Look at any decent team and you'll find an example of a game where the keeper made a terrible blunder or were at the wrong end of a bad decision by a ref and they found a way to come back. Well, with Canada those examples are hard to find...

[gator]

^ I don't think it was a "gutsy call" to make, I think it was gutless! As has been pointed out here looking at every angle and slo mo, there is no foul! Either he is comletely incompetent, or he is being paid off, one of the two, end of story!

[The Ref]

Stalteri would not have pulled the guy down. Anyone taking a bicycle kick normally ends up with his back on the ground, which is exactly the case here. And he would have been leaning onto Stalteri, hence his hands up saying, hey look he is leaning on me.

[earlimus]

Some of these arguements are so bias I can't believe it. If Stalteri had kept his stupid hands down and tried to get in front of the shot he might not even have been called. Putting his hands up (which WERE hit by the shot btw...) would have likely resulted in a penalty anyhow.

No one in here is happy about the outcome, but Canada had almost an hour to tie it. Horrible defending, bottom line.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Stalteri would not have pulled the guy down. Anyone taking a bicycle kick normally ends up with his back on the ground, which is exactly the case here. And he would have been leaning onto Stalteri, hence his hands up saying, hey look he is leaning on me.

Moreover, if Stalteri had actually dragged the player down from behind there is almost no way that player would have been able to execute the bicycle kick. Think about it - it would be virtually impossible. Moreover, Martinez clearly had a hold of Stalteri's jersey and appears to have used his hold on Stalteri to help give him leverage to make the bicycle kick. Martinez's grab on Stalteri's jersey is even more obvious on all the replays (and should have been to the Ref given his position) than any alleged hold that Stalteri has on him, it is mind-boggling to me that anyone watching those replays on tv could see that and still think it was a penalty.

And no the ball didn't hit Stalteri's hands, we've already had people post screen captures which conclusively prove that is the case. The Ref gave the foul and yellow for an alleged challenge by Stalteri on Martinez, a challenge that even Martinez believes wasn't a foul.

Its bizarre but the only people I've seen arguing it was a foul is on this board, and even then there seems to be no agreement amongst the handful that believe it to be on what the foul actually was (which I think is also quite telling). I haven't actually seen any Hondurans fans or neutral observers claim that it was the right call (though I've seen many Honduran fan claim it was a make-up call for a lack of a PK call earlier in the game - not something I agree with but I think a far more legitimate argument).

[canso]

"Its bizarre but the only people I've seen arguing it was a foul is on this board"

After a long period of regular abuse the victims start to believe it is their fault and they deserve to be beaten and abused.