Goodbye CONCACAF CL Coverage on CBC

[Cyrus]

Rumour around Ottawa said that Chretien HATED the CBC/Radio-Canada, because of it's anti-Liberal party, pro-Bloq editorial stance. And Harper HATED the CBC/Radio-Canada because of it's pro-Liberal party, anti-Conservative editorial stance. Because one guy was watching in French and the other in English.

Because of the fact that CBC couldn't maintain a consistent editorial stance, and was in effect running two separate news rooms in Montreal and Toronto, they created lots of enemies and made not nearly enough friends. And the government subsidy business is all about having friends. Because when there is a couple of billion dollars on the table in front of a cabinet meeting, you need somebody to stick up for you.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Marc

Is it a more epic fail than "5-0 Portugal" or Canadian Warriors?

I always wondered why it is that "the 5-0 Portugal" perdiction is the one that stuck.

There has been some better ones in my opinion

1) "A MLS team would be devestating to Canadian soccer"

2) "Any Canadian MLS team will end up in a "crash and burn"

and my favourite of all time, favorite

3) the suggestions that Canadians would be treated as foreigners on an MLS team in Canada.

There is some good entertainment in these two threads

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5044&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=MLS

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5299&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=MLS

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

There is some good entertainment in these two threads

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5044&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=MLS

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5299&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=MLS

Some amazing foreshadowing in those threads, not only by DoyleG but by another prominent board member who I will not name.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Some amazing foreshadowing in those threads, not only by DoyleG but by another prominent board member who I will not name.

Some were predicting that a MLS team in Toronto would result in the death of the other 2 Canadians clubs (MTL and Vancouver)...Funny when you consider that Vancouver will be in MLS soon and we have strong rumours about MTL being the next expansion team to be announce.

[Cheeta]

^ Interesting read those 5 year old topics.

While I still feel MLS coming to Canada and scooping the major markets has absolute benefits I also still feel MLS in Canada's major centres is hindering USL expansion outside Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal. But I think the jury may be still out on that one although I'm cynical.

In a perfect world Canadian footie fans have those three MLS franchises and four or five 1st Division franchises growing out of and because of MLS and not in-spite-of. Maybe yet. Guess we'll have to wait and how things play out once things get sorted in Montreal.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Some were predicting that a MLS team in Toronto would result in the death of the other 2 Canadians clubs (MTL and Vancouver)...Funny when you consider that Vancouver will be in MLS soon and we have strong rumours about MTL being the next expansion team to be announce.

there were some people who were anticipating that getting a foot in the door with one club would pave the way for the other two. That turned out to be accurate. I skimmed through all of those posts in the two threads and aside from DoyleG, Luis and maybe Argh1 , there nothing that anyone said that would make them blush today.

In fact, Even Grizzly was a super enthusiastic. check this quote by Grizzly :

"I think even one professional soccer team getting national media coverage and decent audiences will raise the profile of the game as a spectator sport. This will help the remaining A-league teams and hasten their entrance into the MLS as well as bettering the prospects for smaller cities to establish successful A-league teams."

Also in the running for the crystal ball award: "An Observer"

[BearcatSA]

Grizzly: Kreskin's heir apparent!

[Gian-Luca]

My prediction of media coverage in that thread might get an honourable mention in the Voyageur's Kreskin award, although overall I think it would lose out to the ones already suggested.

However, at the opposite end of the spectrum, if we could find the thread where there was a prediction that an MLS team in Toronto would average 3000 in attendance per game, that would be very fun to look back upon.

[BearcatSA]

^I'll give you that honorable mention for the Kreskin Award: you have a very respectable track record on this forum IMO.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Soro17

DoyleG, we get it, you don't like the CBC. Spare us the logic-defying attempts at reasoning to jusify your dislike. Actually, keep it up - it is highly amusing display of mental gymnastics. Why don't you tell us how the overuse of clips from CBS, ABC and CNN makes CTV news better than CBC news.

I can't being defying logic when my views are based in pure reality. That's something CBC fanatics can never seem to understand. I'm just waiting for the day that people like yourself blame the Jews for the CBC's current problems.

As for CTV, you wouldn't make complaints about the CBC doing that because they don't.

Wait...

oh fiddlesticks, they do the same thing as well. Here come the apologists.

Do you even bother to think that CTV and Global actually care about the various regions of Canada to the point to let them have their own local coverage. Otherwise, it wouldn't explain why the CBC is being slapped around in the ratings and the CBC moving to a 90-minute news format.

But go ahead and keep making excuses for the CBC, as that what your ilk do best.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I always wondered why it is that "the 5-0 Portugal" perdiction is the one that stuck.

There has been some better ones in my opinion

1) "A MLS team would be devestating to Canadian soccer"

2) "Any Canadian MLS team will end up in a "crash and burn"

and my favourite of all time, favorite

3) the suggestions that Canadians would be treated as foreigners on an MLS team in Canada.

Sadly, I've been correct in all three cases.

BTW, you still haven't answered my original post. Just admit you were in a mentally retarded state and that your post was wrong. Refusing to do so means that you will carry the inept mantle for the foreseeable future.

As for Rudi, you could never figure out politics if your life depended on it. I will take that you were suffering from sever Brain damage when you made your idiotic post.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Some amazing foreshadowing in those threads, not only by DoyleG but by another prominent board member who I will not name.

I actually stand by everything I suggested, still think I am largely correct although clearly wrong in my argument with Doyle that MLSE would not be able to find a way to discriminate against Canadians, as this has clearly occured - albeit, currently with a sunset clause on that ability. A search of other threads will also reveal that I suggested that Vancouver and Montreal would only be admitted to MLS if the economics were such that the league needed expansion and there were no american teams able to come in (Check) and that Toronto would wildly exceed the attendance figures suggested by virtually all TO Vs (Check). We will never know what might have happened had TFC stripped Vancouver and Montreal of their best Canadians although in hindsight, I suspect that I was overly pessimistic given that both are generally well run and their fans do not seem to have been put off by a higher foreign presence on the field when it has occured.

So now it appears that we are hitting the minimum acceptable thresh hold that I suggested was palatable to me - 3 Canadian MLS teams, although we still have the discriminatory extra americans rules in place. Lucky - from a strictly soccer perspective - that speculation replaced substance in the american economy some time ago and it all came crashing around them in the last 12 months. Nevertheless, it has occured. Now lets get those 4-5 USL teams.

[Portuguese Sensation]

Here's another suggestion - when your local TV station or newspaper does a good job in covering soccer or puts out a good story, how about dropping them an email or a quick phone call sayin thanks and that you appreciate the coverage. Sometimes a simple Thank You can go a long way.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Sadly, I've been correct in all three cases.

Mind explaining the logic?

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

Mind explaining the logic?

1. Look at poster's name.

2. If it's DoyleG, disregard and forget.

3. Repeat as often as necessary.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Portuguese Sensation

Here's another suggestion - when your local TV station or newspaper does a good job in covering soccer or puts out a good story, how about dropping them an email or a quick phone call sayin thanks and that you appreciate the coverage. Sometimes a simple Thank You can go a long way.

That's a really good point (I believe you're in the sports media, correct?). On a smaller scale those things really make more of a difference than many may think.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I actually stand by everything I suggested, still think I am largely correct although clearly wrong in my argument with Doyle that MLSE would not be able to find a way to discriminate against Canadians, as this has clearly occured - albeit, currently with a sunset clause on that ability. A search of other threads will also reveal that I suggested that Vancouver and Montreal would only be admitted to MLS if the economics were such that the league needed expansion and there were no american teams able to come in (Check) and that Toronto would wildly exceed the attendance figures suggested by virtually all TO Vs (Check). We will never know what might have happened had TFC stripped Vancouver and Montreal of their best Canadians although in hindsight, I suspect that I was overly pessimistic given that both are generally well run and their fans do not seem to have been put off by a higher foreign presence on the field when it has occured.

So now it appears that we are hitting the minimum acceptable thresh hold that I suggested was palatable to me - 3 Canadian MLS teams, although we still have the discriminatory extra americans rules in place. Lucky - from a strictly soccer perspective - that speculation replaced substance in the american economy some time ago and it all came crashing around them in the last 12 months. Nevertheless, it has occured. Now lets get those 4-5 USL teams.

But you know full well that at that time of the thread, what was stated and implied was that Canadians in the MLS team in TO would have the foreign status and the domestic content rules would apply in such a way so that TFC would be treating american players for the domestic content. In other words same rule, no different than say Columbus or Colorado. That is NOT what MO or TFC was getting at when they supposedly argued to have the rule relaxed after the first year. AT NO TIME WAS TFC trying to discriminate against Canadians; show me where it was ever suggested by TFC to have the domestic rule scrapped. Suggesting the the actual numbers are unfair is one thing, and trying to get the rule scraped is another.

Even so, there were no such rules when the NASL was around and yet there was always a canadian presence or identity on every Canadian team. Teams always had Cnd players because it makes sense for a whole host of logical reasons. That's why that initial notion stood out in my mind as one of the most far fetched suggestions ever to come out from this forum.

Your second point is also a stretch. Most of us suggested that Montreal and Vancouver were real possibilities not because we thought fan support would have to "wildly" exceed expectation but because it was important for someone from Canada to get the foot in the door. NOBODY here came close to predicting sellouts of 20K for three straight years. And I am sure we would have been more than fine with numbers along the line of Columbus. I was predicting all along that all they needed was a season ticket base of 5-7K and average attendances of 12-14K. That is about what Columbus gets and I am sure that MLS and the owners of the Caps and Impacts are also realistically thinking along those lines. Given what those teams currently draw, that makes it attainable. It didn't hurt that the revenues were strong for TFC but all that did was spur Kerfoot and Saputo into action rather than changing the picture for MLS in how they view Canadian clubs as expansion candidates. If they're in, its because their capable and viable candidates not because there is nobody else; there is nobody else cause there is nobody as good and dont you think that at, say, 10 million many more expansion coandidates would be there?

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

But you know full well that at that time of the thread, what was stated and implied was that Canadians in the MLS team in TO would have the foreign status and the domestic content rules would apply in such a way so that TFC would be treating american players for the domestic content. In other words same rule, no different than say Columbus or Colorado. That is NOT what MO or TFC was getting at when they supposedly argued to have the rule relaxed after the first year. AT NO TIME WAS TFC trying to discriminate against Canadians; show me where it was ever suggested by TFC to have the domestic rule scrapped. Suggesting the the actual numbers are unfair is one thing, and trying to get the rule scraped is another.

Even so, there were no such rules when the NASL was around and yet there was always a canadian presence or identity on every Canadian team. Teams always had Cnd players because it makes sense for a whole host of logical reasons. That's why that initial notion stood out in my mind as one of the most far fetched suggestions ever to come out from this forum.

Your second point is also a stretch. Most of us suggested that Montreal and Vancouver were real possibilities not because we thought fan support would have to "wildly" exceed expectation but because it was important for someone from Canada to get the foot in the door. NOBODY here came close to predicting sellouts of 20K for three straight years. And I am sure we would have been more than fine with numbers along the line of Columbus. I was predicting all along that all they needed was a season ticket base of 5-7K and average attendances of 12-14K. That is about what Columbus gets and I am sure that MLS and the owners of the Caps and Impacts are also realistically thinking along those lines. Given what those teams currently draw, that makes it attainable. It didn't hurt that the revenues were strong for TFC but all that did was spur Kerfoot and Saputo into action rather than changing the picture for MLS in how they view Canadian clubs as expansion candidates. If they're in, its because their capable and viable candidates not because there is nobody else; there is nobody else cause there is nobody as good and dont you think that at, say, 10 million many more expansion coandidates would be there?

First, you mistake the statement "I was wrong" as the same as "Doyle was right". If you read what I was saying in my arguments in that thread you will see that I was quite clearly wrong in my assertions. I am not intereted in getting into any misguided semantical debate about "discrimination". A certain number of american players are treated as "domestic" in Toronto while the reciprocal is not in place for Canadians at American franchises. That is discrimination. Period. It is obtuse to argue otherwise. It is currently occuring, and will occur until the day that TFC's roster requirements are identical to that of every other MLS team. And for the record, I have said since day one that if MLS adopted a rule whereby Canadians and American counted as domestic anywhere in the league, I would be one happy camper and could care less about the makeup of the TFC roster. NASL is a good example - and an example where Canadians also dotted the rosters of American teams based strictly on merit.

The second point about attendance was that there is a significant underestimation of the appetite for soccer in this country that occurs on this board. My estimate for TFC was 16,000+ - made pre-Beckham - because I happen to believe that we have not even begun to scratch the surface of what is possible in this country, mostly because of the swollen numbers of the cult of impotence that permeates the game in this country. If you think small you stay small. I am tired of all the small thinking, the paralysing fear of failure and the willingness to accept table scraps instead of fending for ones self. I don't believe we are impotent, reject the arguments that we are impotent and challenge constantly those of you who try to rationalize or argue in favour of impotence. Sorry about that. I know it makes many uncomfortable.

The point about TFC attendence was completely unrealted to my third point about the chances of Montreal and Vancouver joining MLS.

Edit: Incidently, the use of "you" in teh second paragraph should be taken in the broader context and is not directed specifically at anyone, most especially Free Kick. There are definitely legit arguments that are opposed to my view points and I do not discount or minimize those arguments, particularly when they come from people who have obviously put some thought and maybe some reseach into them.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

[And for the record, I have said since day one that if MLS adopted a rule whereby Canadians and American counted as domestic anywhere in the league, I would be one happy camper and could care less about the makeup of the TFC roster. NASL is a good example - and an example where Canadians also dotted the rosters of American teams based strictly on merit.

That was my mindset, as well. And I believe we will be seeing more younger Canadians dot MLS rosters in the immediate future (next year, prior Vancouver (Montreal?) in 2011.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

A certain number of american players are treated as "domestic" in Toronto while the reciprocal is not in place for Canadians at American franchises. That is discrimination. Period. It is obtuse to argue otherwise. It is currently occuring, and will occur until the day that TFC's roster requirements are identical to that of every other MLS team.

Be that as it may, I don't think MLSE are sitting in their offices going "Great, now we can discriminate against Canadian players." We all have our opinions about them, but they are smart people and know the future success of Toronto FC lies on developing good Canadian talent. That ties into them wanting to market the men's national team as well. Using the angle of watching Canada play because they have TFC players on the team can go along way.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

Be that as it may, I don't think MLSE are sitting in their offices going "Great, now we can discriminate against Canadian players." We all have our opinions about them, but they are smart people and know the future success of Toronto FC lies on developing good Canadian talent. That ties into them wanting to market the men's national team as well. Using the angle of watching the Canada because they have TFC players on them can go along way.

Exactly my thinking at that time when that discussion was going on. I can see them not even bothering to get involved in soccer if there weren't the opportunity to showcase Canadian players and to be a contributor to player deveopment in canada . Soccer is not like the NBA where you have less than handfull of athletes and who are canadian and can compete at that level.

Its bad for the corporate image for them to take a stand to the extent that was being suggested and not even.

[Macksam]

That's absolutely true.