Goodbye CONCACAF CL Coverage on CBC

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Yet if you look at Radio-Canada, its works aren't that impressive when it comes to the production value. They don't need the big raitings to make it work since they are serving a very restricted market.

The SRC production values are top-notch for man drama series, notably because there's a talent pool of local behind-the-scenes talent that stays in Quebec, unlike English Canadians, who gravitate towards the bigger $ of American series, where they get paid better and work on big series.

BTW, here are the French-language ratings, with 14 shows garnering over 1 million viewers (with a French-language market being under 7m people) - at least 28 of the top 30 shows are local productions:

1 Star Académie - Le variété TVA ......S 19:30:00 21:36:00 2291

2 Star Académie - La quotidienne TVA MTWT... 19:29:00 20:00:00 1575

3 Dieu merci! TVA ......S 21:36:00 22:41:00 1358

4 Annie et ses hommes TVA M...... 20:00:00 21:00:00 1281

5 La Classe de 5e TVA ...T... 20:00:00 21:00:00 1202

6 Les Boys SRC M...... 21:00:00 21:30:00 1105

7 Juste pour rire TVA ......S 18:30:00 19:30:00 1098

8 Tout le monde en parle SRC ......S 20:00:00 22:25:00 1087

9 Les Gags TVA M...... 19:00:00 19:29:00 1060

10 Les Retrouvailles TVA ....F.. 20:00:00 22:00:00 1044

11 La Poule aux oeufs d'or TVA ..W.... 19:00:00 19:29:00 1035

12 Destinées TVA ..W.... 20:00:00 21:00:00 1032

13 Taxi 0-22 TVA ...T... 21:00:00 21:30:00 1018

14 L'Auberge chien noir SRC M...... 20:00:00 21:00:00 1009

15 Dr House TVA M...... 21:00:00 22:00:00 984

16 L TVA18h TVA MTWTF 180000 183000 978

16 Le TVA 18 heures TVA MTWTF.. 18:00:00 18:30:00 978

17 Les Retrouvailles TVA ....F.. 22:45:00 23:15:00 971

18 Providence SRC .T..... 20:00:00 21:00:00 915

19 Les Gags TVA .T..... 19:00:00 19:29:00 906

20 La Promesse TVA .T..... 21:00:00 22:00:00 895

21 Les Invincibles SRC ..W.... 21:00:00 22:00:00 879

22 Le 17 heures TVA MTWTF.. 17:00:00 18:00:00 861

23 Hockey Canadiens tue RDS .T..... 19:25:00 22:15:00 846

24 Hockey Canadiens Sam RDS .....S. 19:00:00 21:45:00 844

25 Hockey Canadiens WK RDS ...T... 19:30:00 22:08:00 809

26 Le Cercle TVA MTWTF.. 18:30:00 19:00:00 807

27 J.E. TVA ....F.. 19:00:00 20:00:00 807

28 Découverte SRC ......S 18:30:00 19:30:00 805

28 Histoires de filles TVA ...T... 19:00:00 19:29:00 731

30 Et Dieu créa...Laflaque SRC ......S 19:30:00 20:00:00 708

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

They are. Their state is a far more concern to peeople than the CBC.

Why's that?

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Solution: vote Liberal. The Conservatives have always hated the CBC, much like Republicans hate NPR. They see unbiased news as being biased against them, and actually think the likes of Fox News and the National Post are indeed fair and balanced. Stephen Harper has talked a few times about getting rid of the CBC altogether.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

CBC's rating are shockingly bad, They only have two shows in the top 30. Especially when you take into account that they spend more money on the main tv channel than CanWest Global does on their entire TV operations.

And how many of those shows are Canadian? Not many. I'm sure most PBS shows don't get great ratings, either. You'll see the BBC get higher ratings because they have a much higher budget and they don't have a government working against them like the CBC do.

I know what will happen when CTV get ahold of sports that used to be on CBC, they'll put them on TSN, like they did when they prised away the rights to the World Cup.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

Solution: vote Liberal. The Conservatives have always hated the CBC, much like Republicans hate NPR. They see unbiased news as being biased against them, and actually think the likes of Fox News and the National Post are indeed fair and balanced. Stephen Harper has talked a few times about getting rid of the CBC altogether.

Sadly, the CBC is biased towards the Liberals. That can be easily seen as why people turn to CTV and Global for their news.

Why watch an arrogant, Toronto-centric, out of touch CBC when other networks give a damn about the region you live in.

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

And how many of those shows are Canadian? Not many. I'm sure most PBS shows don't get great ratings, either. You'll see the BBC get higher ratings because they have a much higher budget and they don't have a government working against them like the CBC do.

Would you like to pay $250/year just for the right to have a TV?

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIANI know what will happen when CTV get ahold of sports that used to be on CBC, they'll put them on TSN, like they did when they prised away the rights to the World Cup.

Of course, CBC is trying to set up its own sports channel and it would mean that CBC Sports coverage would onto that.

But I don't hear a peep out of you complaining.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

To me it seems that CBC's problem isn't that forced to do anything, its that they know that they cannot fail. I would expect those that make decisions at CTV and Global are a lot more vested than those at the CBC who know they will always have the government fat.

The problem goes back to the poor management found in the CBC. They seem to have a more recent history of badly organizing their program schedule as a whole. Some of the problems include:

- Not giving the full support of promoting and proper time slots to CBC programs (The people behind "jPod" and "Intelligence" have made similar complaints)

- Poor handling of their CFL coverage during the last work dispute. It's been argued that is why the CFL has gone over to TSN.

- Ditto with Curling

- Poor local news coverage, especially when compared to private broadcasters.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

Why's that?

CanWest has much more broader coverage of Canada than the CBC does. CanWest going under would wipe out 80% of the media in Western Canada and be just as bad elsewhere.

[Richard]

^ All the more reason to do away with media concentration. That's what has got Canwest into financial trouble now. They borrowed excessively for the heavily leveraged buyouts to create the huge multimedia conglomerate they are and now they can no longer support the huge debt load. If the various entities had been left independent we and they would all be in a much better situation.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ All the more reason to do away with media concentration. That's what has got Canwest into financial trouble now. They borrowed excessively for the heavily leveraged buyouts to create the huge multimedia conglomerate they are and now they can no longer support the huge debt load. If the various entities had been left independent we and they would all be in a much better situation.

The you support breaking up the CBC then?

[Richard]

^ I would support the selloff of CBC TV or its conversion to a real national PBS style service complimenting channels like TV Ontario and BC's Knowledge Network. Keep the radio network and CBC Newsworld. The TV service now is too similiar to everyday commercial TV, a clone of American network TV, but the radio service is unique and very high quality and Newsworld is outstanding.

[TFC07]

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

Solution: vote Liberal. The Conservatives have always hated the CBC, much like Republicans hate NPR. They see unbiased news as being biased against them, and actually think the likes of Fox News and the National Post are indeed fair and balanced. Stephen Harper has talked a few times about getting rid of the CBC altogether.

Amen to that!

[Richard]

^ Agreed.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

The problem goes back to the poor management found in the CBC. They seem to have a more recent history of badly organizing their program schedule as a whole. Some of the problems include:

- Not giving the full support of promoting and proper time slots to CBC programs (The people behind "jPod" and "Intelligence" have made similar complaints)

- Poor handling of their CFL coverage during the last work dispute. It's been argued that is why the CFL has gone over to TSN.

- Ditto with Curling

- Poor local news coverage, especially when compared to private broadcasters.

Most of the time it seems to me that Global BC, CTV BC, and CBC Vancouver run the same local news items, though they sometimes vary the order in which they show them. However, if you live outside the Lower Mainland or Vancouver Island, that could be a problem in the very near future because CanWest is trying to sell off it's E!TV affliates in the interior.

[Richard]

^ Could that perhaps be because everybody is chasing the same news?

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ Could that perhaps be because everybody is chasing the same news?

I wasn't planning on critiquing what is or isn't important in the news. I'm just wondering what will happen with local news coverage in, say, the Okanagan if Global can't find a buyer for its Kelowna station. Are they going to shut it down?

[Richard]

Probably, along with several other small market stations. They just don't have the money to continue supporting these low profit or loss making ventures. CanWest like many other operations in North America, borrowed excessively during the boom times to support a rapacious acquisition spree, permitted because of relaxation of federal media concentration rules. Much of it was financed through leveraging of the new assets and cash acquired through the acquisitions. Now with reduced advertising revenues and shrinking markets for conventional TV/radio/newspapers they can no longer finance their excessive debt load and must shed some of their expenses. This is yet another example that bigger is not always better in the corporate world. Abitibi-Bowater, although obviously a different sector, is another current classic example of exactly this.

[nazzer]

Watching CHBC during their news hour where they show the local news first, and then the golabal BC news from Vancouver, and then the global national, and then local again we'll often see the same piece at least three times because they are all global news programs. A CHBC produced piece will appear on the kelowna news, and then that same piece will appear on the vancouver news. Also, we'll see a vancouver piece on the kelowna news and then the global vanoucouver news shows the same thing. It;s so annoying.

Bearcat, a few months ago when Global announced that they were going to shut down a large portion of the station in kelowna and they would produce our local news out of a studi in Vancouver (maybe victoria) there was a backlash from the community that was enough to cause them to reverse the decision and the station has remained in the community. So I think there is a proven marketplace for it and it should be able to be sold.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by nazzer

Watching CHBC during their news hour where they show the local news first, and then the golabal BC news from Vancouver, and then the global national, and then local again we'll often see the same piece at least three times because they are all global news programs. A CHBC produced piece will appear on the kelowna news, and then that same piece will appear on the vancouver news. Also, we'll see a vancouver piece on the kelowna news and then the global vanoucouver news shows the same thing. It;s so annoying.

Bearcat, a few months ago when Global announced that they were going to shut down a large portion of the station in kelowna and they would produce our local news out of a studi in Vancouver (maybe victoria) there was a backlash from the community that was enough to cause them to reverse the decision and the station has remained in the community. So I think there is a proven marketplace for it and it should be able to be sold.

Thanks for the update, nazzer. But it's still for sale, right? Is there a deadline?

Totally agree with you about the redundancy of news items. Also, I remember reading that the current station manager felt a big part of the Kelowna's station's problem was being saddled with Global's E!TV brand, which he felt didn't serve the area's demographic. Regardless, as Richard as alluded, CanWest has to do some serious restructuring in light of the economic times as well as people's viewing habits.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

CBC is full of foreign content itself. Just look at their schedule, Martha Stewart, The Simpson, Wheel of Fortune, Coronation Street, Jeopardy. The later is the only program on the Network other than hockey to get into the top 30.

If you look at the list the only CTV has a lot more Canadian content than CBC. Their news programs are in there three times, as is the only 'Canadian' sitcom 'Corner Gas'. I have looked at the ratings in previous weeks and the ratings for “Canadain Idol” and other uk reality show copies are always very good (Top 15) when they are on.

To me it seems that CBC's problem isn't that forced to do anything, its that they know that they cannot fail. I would expect those that make decisions at CTV and Global are a lot more vested than those at the CBC who know they will always have the government fat.

If I can add to this, one of the most successful Canadian shows ever in Trailer Park Boys, which was and still is an international hit, wasn't even made by the CBC.

[DoyleG]

It was announced in the Times Colonist that the CH station in Victoria will shut down at the end of August. The same goes with the station in Red Deer as well.

Kelowna will become a regular global affiliate.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

CBC's rating are shockingly bad, They only have two shows in the top 30. Especially when you take into account that they spend more money on the main tv channel than CanWest Global does on their entire TV operations.

CBC has a mandate to go beyond the "Canadian Content" regulations set by CRTC. Are we really going to compare ratings between the CBC and private-sector broadcasters? Its like comparing apples and oranges. In an era of "value-for-money" centric Government, the CBC was a victim of significant cuts under both the Liberals and the Tory's, so one can't single out any one party... (While I'm a card carrying member of the Liberal Party, I hate partisanship...).

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

CBC is full of foreign content itself. Just look at their schedule, Martha Stewart, The Simpson, Wheel of Fortune, Coronation Street, Jeopardy.

If you look at the list the only CTV has a lot more Canadian content than CBC.

To me it seems that CBC's problem isn't that forced to do anything, its that they know that they cannot fail. I would expect those that make decisions at CTV and Global are a lot more vested than those at the CBC who know they will always have the government fat.

Yes, the CBC has recently started airing American programming as well. But this is a by-product of the cuts to CBC both the Liberals and the Tory’s have made. They need other sources of funding other than Government subsidies, and advertising revenue is one of them. American programming, while not Canadian content, helps in the cost-recovery department. However, CBC is still the overwhelming leader in Canadian content.

CBC also had a number of successful mini-series that have cracked the Top 20 in Canadian Drama including Shattered City (based on the Halifax disaster) and Trudeau. CBC tends to do a lot of mini-series that do very well, but are never given credit for because they are not on-going.

While CBC is government funded, keep in mind that as a Crown Corporation, they operate largely independent from the Federal Government. They are driven by ratings just like any other network, what is holding them back is their mandate to provide a higher level of Canadian content, that’s where the subsidies come in. Otherwise, staff and middle-managers at CBC are given rewarded or punished based on performance like any other broadcaster.

CBC has cut far more staff based over time than the rest of the public sector, subsidy or not.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

The CBC receives the lowest government subsidy of any public broadcaster in the western industrial world, a situation being exacerbated now by Harper and his cronies in Ottawa for purely ideological reasons (Harper Conservatives despise public radio and TV). Blame the governments we vote into power in Ottawa, write to your member of parliament and make your feelings known. CBC primetime TV with the all Canadian lineup (before the cuts) and CBC radio are enjoying the highest ratings ever right now, indeed CBC TV is outdoing the competition in prime time ratings. 20 million Canadians tune in to CBC TV and radio or visit the CBC websites every week. Long live the CBC.

Just to reiterate your point. I'm pulling this out of my head based on Journal articles I've read while completing my Masters dissertation (so correct me if I'm wrong)... based on 2006 data, the UK Government spent about $7 billion to subsidize BBC, BBC Sports and BBC Radio programming (all domestic)....

On the other hand... the Federal Government spends only $1.6 billion to fund the CBC, CBC Radio and Radio-Canada (based on 2006 data). Since CBC is severely underfunded as a Public Broadcaster, the CBC TV was forced to introduce a cost-recovery program in the form of Advertising. The BBC is commercial free, CBC Radio remains commercial-free.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Why watch an arrogant, Toronto-centric, out of touch CBC when other networks give a damn about the region you live in.

I find CBC is NOT Toronto Centric as some make it out to be. As a Western-Canadian myself, I find Westerners whine a lot about everything being Toronto-centric, and its just not true. Toronto gets its fair-share of the market based on their size. They happen to have a larger market than the Prairies.

Lets look at Canadian Drama on CBC from the East (Maritimes) to West (Pacific). This is by no means an exhaustive list of Canadian Drama. Of course, Canadian Drama is based on CRTC’s definition of what Drama is:

- "This Hour has 22 Min" & the former in-studio "Air Farce" are based in Halifax.

- Best of Just for Laughs is from Montreal

- "Little Mosque on the Prairie" which gained International fame is from Saskatchewan

- "Heart Land" and "Wild Roses" are both based on Alberta

- Da Vinchi's City Hall is based on a character from Vancouver

- Of course, you have Toronto based Drama like The Border, Sophie and Being Erica.

Lets be clear. Just because it isn't from Alberta, doesn't automatically mean its all from Toronto..

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

CanWest has much more broader coverage of Canada than the CBC does. CanWest going under would wipe out 80% of the media in Western Canada and be just as bad elsewhere.

I never understand people who advocate to disband our only National public broadcaster just to settle some partisan score...

CBC needs subsidies because they are the only broadcaster that is willing to take a chance on Canadian content that are often too risky for the private-sector to consider. Domestic Soccer in Canada would be considered one of those risky ventures.

The CONCACAF Champions League is in its infancy, and when funding is available, the CBC would be the only widely available broadcaster that would take a chance on a Canadian club participating in the CCL. Of course, if CBC was funded along the same level as BBC in the UK, the for-profit CBC Bold would not have been created, and instead, a CBC2 would air the CCL (similar to BBC2) would be widely available for everyone to see and build brand power of the domestic game.

When the Montreal Impact was in its infancy, Radio-Canada was the only channel that was willing to broadcast the Impact regularly. As a result, the Impact were able to get more widespread exposure and have improved brand power.

CBC was also originally the primary broadcaster for TFC in its first season...

If you broadcast it, they will come. Had TFC or the Impact failed to gain wide spread exposure, RogersSportsnet or TSN\RDS would never consider broadcasting or showing highlights of domestic club games...

Private broadcasters who air Canadian content (like Degrassi High or Corner Gas) do so for one reason, and thats to meet the bare minimum of CRTC regulations. The only way we can kill CBC, is if we ramp up the CRTC regulations on Private-broadcaster...

Otherwise, national public broadcasting should have a place for both drama and sports.