Grizzly Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 In light of some of the incidents that occurred in the Impact-TFC match here are what I would suggest as a code of conduct between various fan groups in order to avoid such incidences in the future: -there should be some contact, possibly a contact person, between the two supporter groups to establish what the boundaries are and how the groups should behave in each other's stadiums -the bar of the home teams supporter groups should be made clear and be clearly out of bounds to away fans unless invited. I personally would prefer if we could all drink beers together before the game (most of us are probably similar types of guys in the end) but not everyone may agree and if any supporter group does not want away fans in its bar that should be respected. In the end since certain games will involve large groups of fans and it will not be possible to control everyone it may be better to keep everyone separate when there is large numbers of away support -a certain amount, indeed a very large amount of verbal sparring should be accepted as part of the rivalry however certain things do cross the line and are provocations. These would include ethnic insults, stealing scarves (which both sides did), burning scarves (which Montreal did) and stealing seats from the stadium (which TFC did). I do not think the response to such acts should be violence yet the group leadership should discourage their own members from doing such things. If such acts occur an extreme reaction by certain members of the opposing side may be unavoidable. -given the anonymity of the internet, fans on both sides will always take the piss at each other on forums and it is difficult and not always desirable to control what is being said. Neither group should be overly sensitive to some of the dumb things that are bound to be written. However, certain things should be discouraged such as ethnic slurs and threats of physical violence. I don't know if I will be able to attend the match in Toronto because it is on a Tuesday, however, I don't particularly appreciate reading on the Toronto forums that if I do go the game I and my fellow Ultras will in their words of some posters "get our asses kicked" by certain members of the TFC groups who will undoubtedly greatly outnumber us -there will always be a certain number of individuals who are looking for a fight. The leadership of the groups should do their best to discourage this. However, it is not possible to control everyone and if a certain number of people are determined to fight they will find a way to do so. In this case we need to let law enforcement deal with this situation -acts of fan violence are going to hurt everyone involved. It will bring soccer into a bad light and any incident is going to be overblown in the press. Acts of violence at Impact games will certainly not help our MLS chances and will probably not help the Ultras in our relationship with the Saputos who seem very wary of the supporter groups. I also think if we have a few large incidents that this will not be tolerated at all in Canada and we can expect a very heavy handed reaction from law enforcement -the supporter's groups are going to get bigger and away support will be much larger if the games next year are played on the weekend. Thus, we need to deal with this as soon as possible as otherwise things could get out of hand -when going to Canada games in other stadiums we should be wearing Canada colours not those of teams even if they have the same colours as Canada such as in TFC's case. I think it is acceptable for the home team fans to wear something representative of their team (though it is preferable to wear only Canada colours) but away fans should avoid wearing their team's gear as a sign of respect for the home team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Just an FYI. The point of excluding other supporters from the the pub has never been an issue as far back as I can rememeber. Supporters from many teams showed up after the game to our locale last year and all the way going back to the days of the Stampede ( rochester) showing up at the the Duke post game when the Lynx played at varsity; without any incident. Maybe the rule that you are proposing should apply only to games involving Montreal and TFC. in regards to your quote: " fellow Ultras will in their words of some posters "get our asses kicked" by certain members of the TFC groups who will undoubtedly greatly outnumber us". The group that you are refrering to ( and I am pretty sure its them) is extremely small and insignificant segment of a group of perhaps five people who do not sit in Usector, RPB or NEE. They have their own website and all but are in no way reflective the three groups that I named. By the sounds of it, lack of police presense, was an issue in Montreal. Thats typical of the USL matches that I have seen because there is no need for it. But that wont be the case for the games at BMO field where police presence is always evident in and outside the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Just an FYI. The point of excluding other supporters from the the pub has never been an issue as far as I can rememeber. Supporter from many teams showed up after the game to our locale all the way going back to the Stampede ( rochester) showing up at the the Duke when the Lynx played at varsity. with out any incident. Maybe the rule that you are proposing should apply only to Montreal. in regards to your quote: " fellow Ultras will in their words of some posters "get our asses kicked" by certain members of the TFC groups who will undoubtedly greatly outnumber us". The group that you are refrering to is extremely small and insignificant segment of a group of perhaps five people who do not sit in Usector, RPB or NEE. They ahev their own website and all but are in no way representative the three groups that I named. As far as not going to another teams home pub/bar, if thats what they prefer its reasonable to me. I know RPB's are having this discussion regarding away team supporters attending Joes on match day. I personally don't have an issue with it, but do see why some would want to keep it exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SilverSamurai As far as not going to another teams home pub/bar, if thats what they prefer its reasonable to me. I know RPB's are having this discussion regarding away team supporters attending Joes on match day. I personally don't have an issue with it, but do see why some would want to keep it exclusive. Its sad isn't it? In fact, it strikes as immature to object to having away supporters show up at your locale. I have always enjoyed that part of the interaction. In Rochester, they were at our tailgate the time that I went on that trip. In Boston, canada supporters posed for pictures with the Costa Ricans in the pregame tail gates in Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I sad isn't it? In fact, it strikes as immature to object to having away supporters show up at your local. I have always enjoyed that interaction. I agree, but that's the rules. I won't get into too much here but I respect their wishes. I don't know about U-Sector's rules or NEE's position on away supporters at their bars so I can't comment on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SilverSamurai I agree, but that's the rules. I won't get into too much here but I respect their wishes. I don't know about U-Sector's rules or NEE's position on away supporters at their bars so I can't comment on it. There are no rules that I know of in Usector. Thats the beauty of it. Just common courtesy. Well, perhaps one excessively obvious unwritten rule that you cannot sit while the game is being played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Canadian Club soccer sure has come a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick There are no rules that I know of in Usector. Thats the beauty of it. Just common courtesy. Well, perhaps one excessively obvious unwritten rule that you cannot sit while the game is being played. Might be an unofficial rule, but just saying what's going on. Oh well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Rules are required to protect the minority. For now, the Ultras are that. I can see that Free Kick wouldn't have a problems with 20 or so travelling support coming to his bar full of TFC supporters. But you could see a situation where having a 100 U-Sector in your bar would not be good given the smaller number of Ultras. I'm not a Southsider, so don't take this as official, but I'm pretty sure that if your bring beer, everyone is welcome in Central Park. And it does seem after reading Grizzly's description of the incident that the Bar confrontation was not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 How about implementing the old rule about after game celebrations? The winners buy the first round! So the winning team fans get bragging rights and the losing team fans get a free beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 For all you TOFC fans who say you enjoy having people in your bar; wonderful, good for you. That does not mean we would like it that way, unless invited. Also, why would you show up to drink with fans, considering the barbs were flying between Montreal and Toronto before our teams even played? Our rivalry before we ever played was stronger than most of both our league ones, that would be seen as an indication that things will be heavy between us as soon as we start playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Trident For all you TOFC fans who say you enjoy having people in your bar; wonderful, good for you. That does not mean we would like it that way, unless invited. Also, why would you show up to drink with fans, considering the barbs were flying between Montreal and Toronto before our teams even played? Our rivalry before we ever played was stronger than most of both our league ones, that would be seen as an indication that things will be heavy between us as soon as we start playing. Understandable. As far as the RPB bar thing goes at Joes, a lot of it has to do with capacity as many people are left outside waiting to get in. The place gets packed very quickly. Like I said, I personally have no issue with it, but can understand the position from both sides. At BMO their was a pre-tailgate party to which I understand the away team supporters were welcome to show up at. It looks like the tailgates are on hold due to police ticketing. I don't know what the rules are in Montreal re: tailgating but I hear they're fun and a way for supporters to enjoy themselves. I don't recall of any issue as tailgates at BMO, but well they may be a thing of the past sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Trident Also, why would you show up to drink with fans, considering the barbs were flying between Montreal and Toronto before our teams even played? Our rivalry before we ever played was stronger than most of both our league ones, that would be seen as an indication that things will be heavy between us as soon as we start playing. Not true. The banter between TFC and Columbus Crew fans was far worse than anything online between MTL and TO. That said, once you guys get into MLS, you'll instantly become our biggest rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviola7 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly -acts of fan violence are going to hurt everyone involved. It will bring soccer into a bad light and any incident is going to be overblown in the press. Acts of violence at Impact games will certainly not help our MLS chances and will probably not help the Ultras in our relationship with the Saputos who seem very wary of the supporter groups. I also think if we have a few large incidents that this will not be tolerated at all in Canada and we can expect a very heavy handed reaction from law enforcement I think this is the key point here. You have something really good and it's growing. Don't screw it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Trident Also, why would you show up to drink with fans, considering the barbs were flying between Montreal and Toronto before our teams even played? Our rivalry before we ever played was stronger than most of both our league ones, that would be seen as an indication that things will be heavy between us as soon as we start playing. Why would I be inclined to drink with opposition fans???? - Because you're soccer fans and because in this country, there aren't enough people who identify themselves as such. - Because soccer is a game and we're just the fans. I take it serious but not THAT serious. we're not talking about war here. - Because, very much like trips to Las Vegas, what happens at the stadium is supposed to stay at the stadium, or at least it should. Once the game is over, I'd like to see us be able to retreat to the bar, have a few pints, give each other a hard time in good fun and then call it a night. There's no real need for actual </u> hostility between supporters (unless they are from Columbus...kidding). I really hope there is not some desire to manufacture hatred between fan groups for the purpose of trying to create a more "authentic" experience. This isn't Europe. Old World style hatred should stay in the Old World in my opinion. We're far too immature a soccer nation to be manufacturing divisions. A healthy and heated rivalry between the Canadian teams is awesome and i wasn't sure I'd ever see it when I was growing up but just because there is a strong rivalry between our teams, that doesn't make an Impact or Whitecaps fan my sworn enemy. that's just stupid. mini rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I think the ideal situation is one where the opposing fan groups drink at separate bars before the game, but at the same bars afterwards. My reasoning is that prior to a match in the bar is when a group of fans should be generating club songs and chants. After the game, as we're all fans of the game and Canadian, all fans should drink together and reflect that the sport is finally getting its due in our country. A bit of gloating by the winning team's supporters is expected and accepted, as long as they are not tight-asses and buy a couple of rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Its sad isn't it? In fact, it strikes as immature to object to having away supporters show up at your locale. I have always enjoyed that part of the interaction. In Rochester, they were at our tailgate the time that I went on that trip. In Boston, canada supporters posed for pictures with the Costa Ricans in the pregame tail gates in Boston. Tony, I was just gong to mention our first trip to Boston way back in 2007. Security was nervous but it was all hearts and flowers when the two groups got together on the stadium concourse after the game. They invited us to their local drinking establishment and seemed genuinely disappointed when we had jump on the bus and head home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm all for rival supporters groups having relations with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impactfanfirenze Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph How about implementing the old rule about after game celebrations? The winners buy the first round! So the winning team fans get bragging rights and the losing team fans get a free beer. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I can't believe what I'm reading here! This is a game guys for goodness sake, not WWII! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Not true. The banter between TFC and Columbus Crew fans was far worse than anything online between MTL and TO. That said, once you guys get into MLS, you'll instantly become our biggest rivals. I said most of our league rivals. How was the TOFC-RSL rivalry? TOFC-KC, TOFC-SJ? See what I meant now? TOFC was more of a rival to us before playing than Miami FC, and other lame duck teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Trident I said most of our league rivals. How was the TOFC-RSL rivalry? TOFC-KC, TOFC-SJ? See what I meant now? TOFC was more of a rival to us before playing than Miami FC, and other lame duck teams. True enough, and you guys are more our rivals than FC Dallas or some other stupid team. That said, I think right now both Columbus and New York are bigger rivals for us (both the fans and the players) than MTL, and that probably won't change until you guys get into the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Unfortunately, VPjr, that's not the case. Montreal hates us - they hate Toronto. It says so on their ****ty two-stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead I'm all for rival supporters groups having relations with each other. Me too, I'm headed to Montreal in two weeks and would love to meet some attentive female Montreal supporters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Impactfanfirenze I like it. I like that, although us Vancouver fans are gong to be vastly outnumbered in montreal, so its going to be really expensive for us or we are going to get really drunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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