Free kick Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Yeah. I see your point. You can look at this many ways and, admittedly, my opinion tends to change depending on the side bed that I got off of. One thing that still gets me; I will use an example of Prime time sports but I could have used a number of other ones. Last week ( and I have seen it many times before) the panel was asked for their views on a soccer related topic, The rsponse so often: " I am not interested" or " I could not care less". Fine, but would you heard that response if you asked them about any of the other sports under the sun and does that mean that they subject matter experts on everything else? I very highly doubt it and if they know little they ofen pretend taht they do know something. The more probable reason for this kind of response is to make stand rather than a pleading of ignorance. the flip side of the coin is that maybe they response this way because they know that soccer fans are very Fussy about the media, I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 Gentlemen I spoke to both Bobby Deguzman and Tony DeRosario this morning and they are piss......d with the media big time. It is a disgrace and the only thing that Dwayne said to his father it is politics,that's as far as he would go but I can assure you he is not a happy player. So take it from there. The media is effen our team got it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv Gentlemen I spoke to both Bobby Deguzman and Tony DeRosario this morning and they are piss......d with the media big time. It is a disgrace and the only thing that Dwayne said to his father it is politics,that's as far as he would go but I can assure you he is not a happy player. So take it from there. The media is effen our team got it! But politics spelled differently 'Busi...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 GL thanks I am getting there but very slowly. As you can tell this seems to be my mission in live. I have promoted soccer in many other different ways and to be very honest I think very well. The only thing I have serious problems with is that media. The bad part is that they are also the most important part as far as spreading the gospel is concerned.The ridicule and disrespect as well as a certain kind of anti euro snobbism on this board did not stop me from carrying on with that great Canadian flag and our team promotion.We must break that crazy barrier that the media is still maintaining. Hey that finger in the dike although a joke is what it takes. I really would want all your guys to call the local media in your city and just complain about that attitude towards our national team. Write letters, e mails and phone calls that is what it takes. Let us know what you are doing about it and maintain a log of their repsonses and let us know what they say or excuses they may have. We must unite and make that extra effort,believe me they may not like it but they will pay attention and they are concerned about the backlash if they don't respond.Is anybody game with this or do I again have to read those crazy attacks again. Gentlemen you can't stop me I am to convinced and have been for 39 years.I don't know any better! Anybody game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 I confirmed again that both the Sun and Star will not sent any reporters. In fact they are not even interested if they make the semi.Which could be against the States.They said we will have to discuss but we have no plans to cover the team. I have a call out to the Globe,but since this game is on a Saturday I doubt it as well. They will pick it up from the wire service I was told but not yet confirmed. Globe not goin either,just confirmed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesW Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Hey John, I don't have any problem with what you are trying to do. And I would be more then willing to send out e-mails to the media, but nothing more. But a suggestion, you really need to think a bit harder about some of the things you say. The grass might look blue to you, but mention it once then move on. Going on and on about any subject when you are the only one seeing it makes you seem like a crazy person and makes people ask you what you have been smoking. Comments such as: "let us be very serious there is a lot at stake." Really should be kept to yourself. They make you seem like an idiot. If the post you made at "06/14/2007 : 16:01:16" had been your first post, you may have gotten a better response. Some people believe there is a problem, some do not. Ignore the ones that don't think there is a problem and don't come out and tell them how big of an idiot they are. Let them keep their opinion and they might just do the same for you. And to the ones that think there is a problem, offer them ideas on how to fix the problem not rants and theorys. After the QF game I will listen to the Radio and read the papers online. And if it is not covered at all I will send out some e-mails. And if I get any feedback from the media I will be sure to let you know what their response is. Any ways, I hope some of what I have said makes sense and that it might help you in your "quest". And one other thing, you really only need one thread about the media. Not a new thread each time you get ticked. Please and thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 While some of the TFC media coverage is due to the extensive promotion department of MLSE, could you imagine the impact of the CBC showing the tournament and advertising it like they have been doing for TFC (during the Stanley Cup finals for example). I think this should be part of the CBC's mandate. Since Sportsnet does have the rights it would be nice if they would at least promote the matches a lot more. The one drawback though to increased coverage is that when we do screw up against a team like Guadeloupe this will not bring very good publicity. I think with the general lack of soccer knowledge in the general public and lack of CONCACAF knowledge of many mainstream soccer fans, the loss to Guadeloupe might overshadow the win over Costa Rica and progressing to the quarters for a large percentage of the population. I think one of the prerequisites to getting increased coverage will be beating teams as good as Costa Rica on a regular basis and not losing to teams like Guadeloupe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Loome Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 As someone who has spent the better part of the last two decades actually in the newsrooms you guys are talking about here, I can say that john tv is, generally, right. While it's not a conspiracy, per se, it is an entrenched reality that old guard sports reporters (which is most, as they never seem to leave) hate soccer. They admit it. Openly. In the newsroom. They admit it colours their assigning, their writing and any number of other approaches. I've heard more than one sports editor shoot down even the most basic coverage because "soccer will never make it in Canada" or "Canadians don't give a sh-t about soccer." These are not exaggerations and i've recieved the same comment from sports writers at a good chunk of the top papers in this country. Here's a great example of what you guys don't see: a debate on this subject between myself and a reporter at a Toronto paper who shall remain nameless. This came after he slagged Toronto in pre-season as being a failure: > On 3/19/07 11:41 PM, "Jeremy Loome" <jloome@edmsun.com> wrote: > >> Hey ______, >> Were you ever actually a reporter? I don't even live in Toronto, can't attend >> any of the basically sold-out season and can name basically the entire roster >> of Toronto FC. Quick, name a reporter who doesn't pay any attention to a >> sport before he writes about it. 14,000 season tickets and you still haven't >> figured it out yet..... >> >> Cheers, >> Jeremy Loome >> Edmonton Sun On 3/19/07 4:21 PM,___________ wrote: > So far, Toronto FC has lost to the US Under 20 team, tied the US Under-17 > team and had moderate success against US college teams. Just because you > sell tickets for a sport, doesn't make it a quality product. And if you can > name every player on the roster, I suggest you find better things to do with > your time. > > My answer back, which he refused to respond to: Geez, you can't even get your acerbic emails right. They've lost one out of six preasons games and two of those colleges were beaten by a combined score of 10-2. That's hardly moderate success. Their two wingers are, almost immediately, the best in the league (Ronnie O'Brien already was one of the best in the league, and Andy Welsh is coming in at age 24 after playing regularly in both the premiership and championship. I can name the squad because I'm a fan, the same as the 14,000 who bought tickets; As for what I do with my spare time, I run a magazine on the side, run a band on the side, take part in organized soccer; I could give you a list, and while you're lying on the couch swilling beer and looking for a real reason to support your original contentions with respect to why soccer sucks, you could try reading it. As for the quality of their squad, they have obvious defensive problems. They're gonna get scored on a lot; but how well a single franchise does in its first year has little to do with the quality of the league. MLS probably would be considered a tier-2 or tier-3 pro league by European standards, but so what? Why is that relevant? Do you also hate the CFL, which on a talent-for-talent basis is a joke compared to the NFL? The team may play well, it may play lousy. But either way, 14,000 season tickets say you'll still be wrong. > > And this is a VERY senior guy I'm talking to. He has, since then, not written a single word that I can find about TFC, and he has a regular, multi-day per week column. He has written, in the same period, about NASCAR, basketball, the jays, college football, hockey and every other mainstream sport. The one that sells out in his hometown, however, apparently isn't worthy. Pathetic. I do believe it's changing but that's just attrition: the old guard is dying out and being replaced by younger writers with the broad perspective that comes from growing up in the multi-channel universe. Another thing to always -- ALWAYS -- keep in mind with media is that the rank-and-file staff are often most affected not by their own opinions but by a hideous lack of resources; newspapers have been carved to the bone over the last decade, and it shows in quality. And anyone who thinks the instant communication "update everything five minutes ago" mentality of the internet is going to improve that is kidding themselves. I predict by this time next year, Toronto FC will be getting major play in Toronto papers, using mostly full-time guys instead of loaners from other beats. Why? Because sports departments will be directed to cover them due to their popularity. Cheers, Jeremy Loome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv Gentlemen I spoke to both Bobby Deguzman and Tony DeRosario this morning and they are piss......d with the media big time. What are they pissed about in particular? The difficult for most Canadians to watch the games live (if they don't have digital cable) or is it that there are no members of the press covering the team during the tourney? Or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly The one drawback though to increased coverage is that when we do screw up against a team like Guadeloupe this will not bring very good publicity. I think with the general lack of soccer knowledge in the general public and lack of CONCACAF knowledge of many mainstream soccer fans, the loss to Guadeloupe might overshadow the win over Costa Rica and progressing to the quarters for a large percentage of the population. Yes, in the first round that seemed to be the match that got the most attention, particularly from people who don't normally cover soccer. Case in point this article: http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/columnists/story.html?id=6f3ae948-e70a-4f52-b0da-a85c756e8f9d&p=2 where the author also takes a shot at TFC for no justifiable reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy Loome As someone who has spent the better part of the last two decades actually in the newsrooms you guys are talking about here, I can say that john tv is, generally, right. While it's not a conspiracy, per se, it is an entrenched reality that old guard sports reporters (which is most, as they never seem to leave) hate soccer. They admit it. Openly. In the newsroom. They admit it colours their assigning, their writing and any number of other approaches. This is the post that John tv has been waiting for all these years! And conversely, is bound to cause Media Guy nightmares. [)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 Jeremy for president. I am rushing out but can't wait to digest it all at home. Will keep you posted,wow i better drive carefull. Yes GL finally some Western justice. I guess we all have to get our heads together and see how we can handle all these guys who act that way. got to go,boy oh boy Jeremy for POPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca What are they pissed about in particular? The difficult for most Canadians to watch the games live (if they don't have digital cable) or is it that there are no members of the press covering the team during the tourney? Or something else? I think they might consider the long term aspects of their kids being essentially invisible. They are playing for a national team, winning championships, ect... and no one knows who they are because a very small group of people choose to keep it that way for a variety of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca What are they pissed about in particular? The difficult for most Canadians to watch the games live (if they don't have digital cable) or is it that there are no members of the press covering the team during the tourney? Or something else? /quote] Simply because there is no media coverage. Just remember that these guys are used to constant headlines, media that are hounding them,journalist that want interviews and really people that care. On this side zilch,zilch and zilch. Just not the same and we should be grateful that these guys still go out there for their country but they really don't know if anybody cares and in fact they assume they don't since nobody knows.I know Jonathan and Julian are constantly in the headlines or in the news and that by many papers ,radio stations and t.v. We have this crazy disease and that is that the media in any media department in Canada just don't want or like soccer and obviously that attitude hurts us. Anyway GL,there is no sinister reason with their statements.These marvelous and outstanding fathers live,breath and adore their sons and these guys are giving it all for Canada. Remember the first match and Julian have you ever seen anything like that,or Dwayne constant attacking the defenders and scaring the hell out of them.These fathers rightfully expect the media to respond to these giant efforts and zilch. It is really criminal and just about should be against the law. Yes these parents were piss of and so were all their family members and may even effect Jonathan decision, would he want to be part of this crap,fighting for your country and zilch. This is strictly my observation and never discussed with them. I hope to see Jonathan soon and I will ask him about that effen Canadian media,is it worth it I will ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca This is the post that John tv has been waiting for all these years! And conversely, is bound to cause Media Guy nightmares. [)] Balance, G-L, balance. All I ask for is a little balance in people's perception on media coverage. I've acknowledged that the way the Canadian sports media works is far from perfect and that many sports, soccer included, get less coverage than they deserve. However, as I outlined in detail at the u-sector board last week, there are resource issues at play. What makes me lose my mind is when conspiracy posts get made. An individual columnist may hate soccer, but there isn't a institutionalized effort to bring the sport down. There just isn't. Jeremy currently has a better job than I do, but I have a lot of contacts in the industry too. Some like soccer, some are indifferent to it and some hate it. That's normal--I'd rather stick a fork in my eye than cover auto sports, for instance, so I let others (i.e. my gimp, er, co-op student) do it. But it doesn't mean that I am out to bring the sport down (hell, I even resisted calling it a "so-called sport" right there!). I don't deny it space on my pages and I recognize when it is the biggest story of the day (there is a sprint car track in the community I cover). Soccer is the same way with many people in the industry. The thing is, and honestly ask yourself this question, how important is the Gold Cup to the typical Canadian sports fan? Then ask yourself if the converge it is receiving reflects that interest. I happen to think that it does (remember it is not the job of the sports media to promote events--although I acknowledge that it does sometimes). Oh , and Jeremy...Steve Simmons, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 Hey Jeremy thanks so much for your amazing honesty.I hope it is not going to hurt you among your peers.I guess you could be called a whistle blower and that among the media.I cannot thank you enough for you to have taken this step. I also know that we all will act accordingly and realize what we are up against and form our own plans.To be honest i knew about that sports departments attitude towards soccer and I have even hinted that way without divulging my sources.Do you have any recommendations for us and these guys. How can we work together or is it a waste of time and hope that we have enough students at Ryerson as an example that are soccer players instead of that baseball bat in their trunk.Again thanks so much and I wonder how all these guys that attacked me so viciously feel about your revelations and will they attack you in turn. I guess they will since you destroyed that almighty critical world. Anyway it is their problem and I guess if justice is the right word so be it. I really hope that Miss Nightingale and Mr Ball read this stuff as well as L something and oh yes my boy from Montreal, Oh Danny boy.Oops moby dick as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesW Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Jeremy a whistle blower? This thread just went down the drain... MediaGuy, I agree with all that you said 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 So who can find a cheap air ticket to Boston for the media ? Go and Return on Saturday ...? Or can anyone introduce the Star Sports editor to the Boston Herald sports guys and ask for a bi-line story to be written for the Star..et al. The reason for bad coverage is the average Sport Editor is lazy.. they dont get you can have the story ....written by someone else and give it prominent space if its well written and edited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I was going to guess Steve Simmons as well for the guy that Jeremy corresponded with. I'm 99% sure its him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 The media treats soccer like a step child. People like Bruce Dowbiggin, and Ed Willes, and Gary Mason, and David Pratt, and Jim Rome just hate it for the sake of hating it. They are part of the reason that sports writers aren't in fact journalists, and neither are radio personel on sports networks. These people are just plugging their own agenda. Honestly, what type of journalist would actually have the nerve to say "14000 pretending to be soccer fans"? That is actually an insult to all those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 All these old school guys that dis soccer will just get left behind. The way that soccer is growing in popularity in this country, it will become a prerequisite for members of the sports media to have a general knowledge of the game. If they refuse to learn the game, they will be out of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy The thing is, and honestly ask yourself this question, how important is the Gold Cup to the typical Canadian sports fan? Then ask yourself if the converge it is receiving reflects that interest. I happen to think that it does (remember it is not the job of the sports media to promote events--although I acknowledge that it does sometimes). I don't know that there is such a thing as a "typical Canadian sports fan" nowadays - particularly in the cities where diversity rules. While I agree that it is not the job of the sports media to promote events, at the same time the public is influenced by what the media will occasionally deem to be important - or in some cases un-important. The Gold Cup is an example of the latter. I think there is a lack of knowledge (stemming from a lack of interest) of the Gold Cup on the part of some of the "generic" sports media which has led to the Gold Cup being given less importance in the Canadian coverage & therefore in the minds of the audience. Back in 2000 when Canada won the Gold Cup the FAN590 said on Primetime Sports "Good for them - but who cares?" (that's a direct quote) when the issue of Canada's victory (reported on front page of the sports sections everywhere) came up. The panel went on to conclude that the tourney wasn't worthy of coverage not because it wasn't of interest to the people (which clearly wasn't the case at the time) but because the tournament shouldn't be considered important to the Canadian people - because as far as they were concerned the Gold Cup was equivalent to the Spengler Cup. The comparison of course is laughable. The Spengler Cup is not our regional hockey championship & it doesn't feature anywhere close to the best Canadian hockey players that we produce, and it doesn't feature club teams. But if the audience that doesn't know any better is told that the tourney is insignificant & our accomplishments are downplayed, then its tough to blame them for caring less about the tourney. I do think a lot more people would care if they actually understood what the tourney really is about, but certain members of the media aren't really helping in that regard. I actually think the press coverage has been half-decent, because I haven't had any trouble in finding game reports on websites & in print. I do think the CP should have someone covering the team, but other than that I can't complain. I'm not expecting wall to wall coverage. I'm more concerned about the lack of live tv coverage for most Canadians. A lack of exposure to the tourney can also cause a lack of interest. It will be interesting to see how things change if we ever get to host the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca [it will be interesting to see how things change if we ever get to host the thing. Not the Gold Cup, but it will be interesting to see how the u-20s are handled...I suspect it will be played big in the Toronto print market (especially since the Jays mailed it in a while ago). I'm not so sure about The Fan... TV is a different animal all together. I suspect we will see lots of "colour" stories... As an aside, I think a Gold Cup in Canada would be very successful. Canadians seem to rise to the occasion and support one-off competitions, even when they don't have a history of supporting them in the past. I hold out some hope that we will get to find out in '09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 What are we going to do to get that Canadian media on board,have them throw away that weird and negative feeling about soccer,accept the fact that we are here to stay, flourish and become a world power in that game.It is strange though when you realize that there is no competition among the US and Canada involving the National teams of baseball,football,pro basketball and to a little extend even hockey.There is no Concacaf in any of these sports. Anyway I am very happy that TFC seem to have managed to get the TO media behind them,which I believe it or not expected and I still find it very fascinating to constantly read about the team and in fact on a daily basis and even news I never expected to read.So that seems to be ok,now our Canadian team and this Gold Cup coverage.Maybe since the other sports don't have that National angle,maybe the media just don't know how to handle that one,but that still does not take them of the hook. They should embrace this thing and recognize that we will be able to field a team that can beat the Americans in sold out stadiums.ie 60k and up and do something that no other sport could equal. The potential and rewards would be tremendous and great for our kids. Anyway we keep on fighting for that recognition and driving to get these media departments to come to their senses and in the long run realize that we have the numbers and the players to reach sporting levels that have never been reached before. I believe that the u-20 will become a huge learning curve and hopefully will convert these yo yo's and make them shut up in the newsrooms and change the way they express and "act" themselves. It will be if nothing else a great awakening for them and also a great excuse for them to change completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Gawd I feel old.......... In the 40 plus years I've been following soccer the media presence of soccer has grown so much over the two generations. I used to have one weekly column in my local paper on English soccer. I remember waiting at a local news stand on Wednesday morning for the English weekend papers to be delivered. Sometimes going back on Thursday if flights from England were delayed or cancelled with the papers. Then CBC would show tape delayed Brit games on Sunday afternoon after the CFL/NFL seasons finished. Then came NASL and Pele and the Montreal Olympics as well as the Toronto Blizzard who had televised games once in a while. TSN was the first with Soccer Saturday and later CTV Sportsnet with Saturday Soccer. I remember the odd WCQ especially the game in St. John's and WCs. The internet was the big change, info on demand, no more waiting. Now, along with the 'net we have many stations covering soccer, yeah you may have to pay sometimes. We have three stable pro teams. Two with good national TV coverage. Good crowds, 19,000+ in TFC's inaugaral year, 11,000+ seems to be the norm in Montreal, 5-6,000 in Vancouver. Sportsnet may not be perfect, but they do show us the MNT as often as possible. If you'd have asked me 25 years ago if I thought this is the way it'd be........well you know the answer. Is soccer coverage perfect, no. But step back and see what it used to be, and imagine what it will be 25 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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