York Stadium Argos OFFICIALLY pull out

[Andrew W]

Hmmm, having to pay nothing versus $30-plus million when it is all tallied up? I wonder which way any of us would decide to go. We need to face facts that the Argos are not going to make this decision for the good of soccer in Canada, the WYC or a potential MLS franchise.

I agree with DJT and always have. The Argos owners have always seemed a bit aloof and seemed to use the potential of this stadium to leverage the Skydome owners a bit. I also question the real depth of the Argos owners' pockets. It seemed like an awful lot of money for guys who really swallowed hard at the losses the Argos racked up last year.

Where I'm a little aggrevated is that Cox or any other media hack hasn't immediately called Peddie or Tannenbaum to see if MLSE will step into the gap here for this stadium project and keep their MLS idea alive.

While I doubt it would happen, in an ideal world they could reduce the planned capacity to 20,000 which could potentially bring costs back down to original levels and satisfy everything soccer. If this unlikely scenario were to happen it would further cement Toronto's MLS aspirations. In addition, they could ensure the surface is grass. Now the thing holding back this pipe dream is it is MLSE we are talking about here and they do have money tied up elsewhere.

All in all, even though I don't live in Tee-Oh, this would be a serious setback (initially anyways) for Canadian soccer. Hang in there fellas.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by jaydog2006

Its not up to the gov to build a stadium.Besides the fuss toronto made when the sens were in trouble and asked for some help.Certain people mostly in toronto said the rest of the prov should not have to pay to help the sens.Well that could come back to bite them.With all that said the gov can not pick 1 city when there are so many citys acrosse the country need help in forms of asst in new rinks/stadiums etc.While toronto has a park rogers centre witch is fine so in short no the gov should not and will not pay to build a park.

Fifa has aready ruled Skydome aka rogers center out as a venue for any Fifa event so there is no chance the under 20 event will be played in Toronto unless a new stadium is built, if not there goes the tournament to Japan/Korea.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

They could reduce it to a bare bones stadium like PAETAC Park in Rochester. They wouldn't need the telescoping endzones either so that should save some dough...... just hoping this doesn't get canned.

[jaydog2006]

Again it does not all hinge on toronto.If the deal does not happen the torunemant will still go on just without toronto.

[Massive Attack]

From the CSA's site:

Canadian Soccer Association

Friday, April 22, 2005

Conference Call and Statement

The Canadian Soccer Association will release a statement at 3:00 p.m. on the reports of the Toronto Argos possibly withdrawing form the York University Stadium project.

Media are invited to call 1-877-385-4099 (enter participant number 18591#) to take part in a conference call with Kevan Pipe, Chief Operating Officer of the CSA at 3:00 p.m.

http://canadasoccer.com/eng/media/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=2129

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Just wanted to add a few more comments.

When the tournament was first awarded to Canada, FIFA stated that the bid hinged on a new stadium being built in Toronto. When the Varsity stadium proposal collapsed, Jack Warner was quoted as saying that the tournament would go on with or without Toronto.

Also, if the York stadium collapses, the Argos come out looking really stupid. The new Argo owners have been using the outdoor stadium concept in their marketing. Their PR department has been spinning the cozy, outdoor stadium plan since the new owners took over. It would be interesting to see how they would be able to pull out of the York U. project and sell to their fans the SkyDome with its cosmetic changes.

[Andrew W]

Just surfing CFL fansite 13thman.com and it seems several Argo fans want them to stay in Rogers Centre. Some want the stadium deal to go ahead but many would be happy to remain downtown.

Interesting reactions from all angles coming in.

[Metro]

There's one thing I don't understand...aren't the Argos contractually committed to play at the new stadium? Wasn't that needed for the stadium to get the go ahead to be built originally?

[Gian-Luca]

We aren't privy at this stage to what is in the respective contracts and agreements, but I'm assuming there must be some clause that would allow them to legally opt out - or they wouldn't even be considering it.

We'll just have to see what happens after 3pm with the CSA.

[Free kick]

If the end result is a scaled down version of a stadium that seats approximately 10,000 fans, I am not sure that I would see any benefit for soccer in that event. Ten thousand seat facilities are a dime a dozen in canada. Remember the one that was erected in Winnipeg for the Pan Am games? what ever happen that one? I don't think 10K would suffice to bring Major league soccer nor would it be enough to attract games involving the Mens National team. There is a similar sized facility in Montreal ( CCR). How many international soccer games has that facility hosted in the past years? It will take something more impressionable than a 10K facility to lure Frank Yallop out of his cocoon at Swangard.

[Alberto7]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

If the end result is a scaled down version of a stadium that seats approximately 10,000 fans, I am not sure that I would see any benefit for soccer in that event. Ten thousand seat facilities are a dime a dozen in canada. Remember the one that was erected in Winnipeg for the Pan Am games? what ever happen that one? I don't think 10K would suffice to bring Major league soccer nor would it be enough to attract games involving the Mens National team. There is a similar sized facility in Montreal ( CCR). How many international soccer games has that facility hosted in the past years?

Ok, call me an optimist.

1) If the Argos back out the CSA can build a smaller stadium and have total control over it.

2) If this is a NEW soccer specific stadium, you will get MNT games there.

3) I never really believed the MLS would come to Canada.Personally I don't think MLS would do anything for Toronto or Canada. This would keep alive the Lynx option and give them a brand new home to play in. They would be able to increase attendance in realistic terms(no one in their right mind ever expected the Lynx to average 20,000 fans a game. This way they can bring the average up to the 6,000-8,000 range and not look lost in a cavernous stadium).

As I pointed out, I am an optimist....

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Alberto7

But i am not so sure that the current Lynx ownership are the right people to take soccer to the next level in Toronto and by extension provide a viable support option for the national teams. My belief in this regard is reinforced from what I heard from the lynx owner in that interview on Inside soccer radio from a few weeks back. I recall from that interview lots of sour grapes and that he was ridiculing canada's FIFA ranking in a way to make his point about how the CSA had double crossed him. That doesn't sound like the kind of words that you would want to heard from a soccer representative in Canada. By that i mean that he strikes me as someone who is not at all concerned about the bigger picture but rather just being king of his own little fiefdom. Is that what we need in Canada?

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Alberto7

Ok, call me an optimist.

1) If the Argos back out the CSA can build a smaller stadium and have total control over it.

2) If this is a NEW soccer specific stadium, you will get MNT games there.

3) I never really believed the MLS would come to Canada.Personally I don't think MLS would do anything for Toronto or Canada. This would keep alive the Lynx option and give them a brand new home to play in. They would be able to increase attendance in realistic terms(no one in their right mind ever expected the Lynx to average 20,000 fans a game. This way they can bring the average up to the 6,000-8,000 range and not look lost in a cavernous stadium).

As I pointed out, I am an optimist....

1) Just where would the CSA get the finances to build a smaller,

football only type stadium?

2)Lets hope the national team gets more Ontario games.

3) The MlS can still come to Toronto and play out of the Rogers

Center aka Skydome. Lets forget about the Lynx, they have done ,

nothing to help the sport, they continue to put out a mediocre,

product on the field, and that 6,000 - 8,000 range for attendance,

you must be kidding....to see the Lynx.

[Alberto7]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

1) Just where would the CSA get the finances to build a smaller,

football only type stadium?

2)Lets hope the national team gets more Ontario games.

3) The MlS can still come to Toronto and play out of the Rogers

Center aka Skydome. Lets forget about the Lynx, they have done ,

nothing to help the sport, they continue to put out a mediocre,

product on the field, and that 6,000 - 8,000 range for attendance,

you must be kidding....to see the Lynx.

I will respond since you asked so nicely:)

1) The CSA and York can get together and finance this thing with the help of the $27 million the Feds and Ontario promised.

2)Agree. I also hope the MNT get more Ontario games.

3)The MLS will not come to Toronto unless Toronto builds a 20-25,000 seat SSS. They will NEVER allow a new team to play in an old huge stadium unless the team swears on a stack of bibles that they will build said Soccer Specific stadium. So forget about the Skydome/Rogers Centre. Agree that the Lynx have underachieved but they have still kept the (pro) sport alive in Toronto longer than anyone since the days of the NASL(remember the APSL Blizzard, the Rockets and other fly by night teams?). I don't think they have the best owners to help soccer thrive but owners can be changed. As far as the attendance is concerned: If the Lynx put a better product on the field, people will come to the games. In 2001, the Impact were in bankruptcy and averaging under 2,000 a game(They had some 700 fans at one game after Ionian left them hanging) yet they improved on and off the field (including getting a ton of corporate sponsors) and last year they averaged over 9,000 in a 1970s stadium that leaves a lot to be desired. If the Lynx play well and move to a new 10,000 SSS, they could attract 6,000-8,000 a game.

[Jarrek]

Statement from the Toronto Argonauts

04/22/05 - Canadian Football League (CFL) Toronto Argonauts

Toronto - In reference to news reports today, the Toronto Argonauts Football Club has issued the following statement:

“We have been working diligently for the past several months with York University and the Canadian Soccer Association. This work has been conducted in an entirely business-like and professional manner, and has resulted in a credible and viable project that we believe would create a stadium at York on budget and on time. At this time, we have been offered a very attractive deal by the Rogers Centre which we looking at very closely.”

The 2004 Grey Cup Champion Toronto Argonauts are North America's oldest professional football club, having celebrated their 130th anniversary in 2003. The Toronto Argonauts have 15 Grey Cup championships to their credit. To purchase 2005 season tickets or to get more information about season ticket packages, please contact the sales team at (416) 341-ARGO. Full roster details are available at www.argonauts.ca.

[Jarrek]

Canadian Soccer Association

Friday, April 22, 2005

CSA Issues Statement on York University Stadium Project

The Canadian Soccer Association today issued the following statement following reports of the Toronto Argonauts possibly withdrawing from the York University Stadium Project.

“The CSA was surprised to read reports concerning the possibility of the Toronto Argonauts potentially withdrawing from the York Stadium project,” said CSA Chief Operating Officer Kevan Pipe.

“We were most disappointed to learn of these possible developments but like our partners at York University we remain committed and on track to building the stadium and hosting the FIFA Under-20 World Youth Championship.

“We have received some superb bids from potential hosting cities and we look forward to reviewing those bids and announcing the winning four cities who will join Edmonton and Toronto in hosting the second biggest soccer tournament in the World in the summer of 2007.”

[Bill Ault]

04.22.05 by Bill Ault

Third and Long for Stadium Plans?

Argos re-thinking involvement in York Stadium deal.

TORONTO—Friday, April 22--The plans for a new national home for Canadian Soccer Association were dealt a set back today with the Toronto Argonauts were expected to announcing that they are taking a second look at the York University Stadium deal. full story.....

http://www.canadakicks.com

[redhat]

"In a conference call this afternoon CSA Chief Operating Officer, Kevan Pipe remained optimistic about the prospects for the stadium, "The commitment from York University and the CSA still exists the stadium will go ahead on time and on budget." "

So there may still be a stadium without the Argos? We'll just have

to wait and find out.

[Bxl Boy]

Canada Kicks were on the Conference

I was too, I've done something in french there : http://www.impactsoccer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4119

For those who can : translate...

To summarize : we know there's a gap, Argos are betrayers,we have options to fill the gap, stadium will be at least 20,000 (no option of little one expandable to 20,000) and will be part of a bid for 2001 WWC. Pipe often said : we keep move on and follow the schedule

[Gian-Luca]

It's my understanding that one reason York wants this stadium badly because they believe it will help bring a long-over due Subway stop to them (which they should have since the one at Wilson isn't that far away - it would be introducing one stop), which would really help their entire university as a whole (just ask a former commuter like myself) - so they just might dig deeper in their own pockets or find someone else's to make up the difference. I say hopefully.

Interesting that the CSA heard immediately from FIFA this morning when the story broke & had to assure them the stadium is going ahead. That suggests to me that if the stadium doesn't go ahead, the WYC will go to South Korea, T&T or some other place that has an abundance of already built stadiums waiting desperately to be used. With still over two years to go before the tourney, there's plenty of time to yank it from us and give it to someone else.

The fact that the CSA & York heard about this from the press first, rather than the Argos says a lot - quite embarassing to the Argos, really. But York & the CSA (and us) could be the ones to get screwed in the end by the embarrassing actions of the Argos.

[Gian-Luca]

Neil Davidson's article:

Boatmen bailing on York?

Argos may stay put

By NEIL DAVIDSON

The Toronto Argonauts are looking at the prospect playing out of the Rogers Centre (formally known as the SkyDome) after they were offered a rent-free deal. (File Photo)

TORONTO (CP) - The Toronto Argonauts acknowledged Friday that they may be having second thoughts about moving to a proposed outdoor stadium at York University.

The news caught the other principal stadium partners - the Canadian Soccer Association and York University - by surprise. Soccer officials insisted the stadium project was still on track but the university, while stressing the Argos have yet to pull out, admitted they will have to examine all options in case the CFL team elects not to come aboard.

The news also prompted calls from FIFA headquarters in Zurich. The 25,000 stadium is the cornerstone of Canada hosting the 2007 world under-20 soccer championship.

The reason for the Argos' hesitation is simple. Their existing landlord at the Rogers Centre, formerly known as SkyDome, has apparently made an offer they are having a hard time refusing.

"At this time, we have been offered a very attractive deal by the Rogers Centre which we are looking at very closely," the Argos said in a statement Friday.

The federal government has agreed to contribute $27 million and the provincial government $8 million to the $70-million York stadium project. The university is contributing the land and $15 million, with the Argos responsible for the final $20 million and any cost overruns.

Losing that Argo money would be a huge blow, although the stadium could be downsized.

"Our funding agencies and our partners are predicated on the Argos being here," Bud Purves, president of the York University Development Corp, said in an interview. "So the possibility of them not being here means we have to go re-evaluate all of that.

"So we're going to have to do that. I can't commit to whether we're going ahead or not with or without them, but we're examining all the options."

A York spokesman said later the university is committed to going ahead.

There is not much time left. The shovel has to be in the ground by October if they want to meet the July 1 start of the 2007 World Youth Championship. There is not much of a window.

"It's not exactly a picture window," Purves said dryly.

There seems a reason behind the timing of the Argo news. York is on the verge of hiring architects, with interviews slated for next week.

"So this is the point of time where we are at the make-it-or-break-it time on going into (spending) super money," Purves said.

There is nothing binding at this point to force the Argos to stay on side. That was just around the corner, Purves said.

York disputed a reference in the Star report that the stadium project was over budget. The Argos, in their statement, also said the plan was on budget.

The Rogers Centre has offered the CFL team a rent-free deal, the Star reported in Friday editions. Purves said the Argos had confirmed the deal offered was a good one.

As a result, the Star said, the Argos are expected to announce plans to remain at the Rogers Centre and host the 2007 Grey Cup game at the facility.

The Argo statement did not go that far, however.

Since the announcement of the outdoor stadium, Rogers Communications, owners of the Toronto Blue Jays, acquired the SkyDome for $25 million. They have since completed extensive renovations.

For the CSA, the news is another obstacle in the road to building a much-needed stadium suitable for soccer.

"We're committed ... to making this project happen and to bringing the championship to Canada in 2007," said Kevan Pipe, the CSA's chief operating officer.

The 24-team tournament is second only in size to the World Cup in FIFA-sanctioned world championships.

It's not the first setback for the stadium project. Last September, the University of Toronto backed out of a plan to build an $80-million stadium on the site of the former Varsity Stadium.

U of T officials cited rising costs in announcing their decision

[FC Beast]

Argos get rent free? Not bad for a welfare sports franchise. The quicker

the CFL dies the better for soccer in this country.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

Argos get rent free? Not bad for a welfare sports franchise. The quicker

the CFL dies the better for soccer in this country.

What in God's name does that mean?

Are you drunk again?

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

What in God's name does that mean?

Are you drunk again?

Can't you read? Get someone to read and explain it to you.

[Massive Attack]

Rumours on the Fan 590 tonight that the Argo's pulling out is a done deal. We should expect an announcement soon from the Argo's stating they are pulling out. The same press conference would include news of Rogers buying a piece of the Argo's. When asked for his opinion, Stephen Brunt predicted that the Argos would not be playing at York. Bob McCown mentioned that he was hearing rumours of the Argo's backing out for weeks now.

Essentially, York U and the CSA are going to have to find a way to build this stadium without the Argos.

[Gian-Luca]

You have to wonder who gave the Star the idea that the stadium was over-budget, since both York and the Argos have indicated this is not the case. Was that just an initial pathetic attempt at someone in the Argo camp spreading a rumour to try to justify their act of betrayal?