York Stadium Argos OFFICIALLY pull out

[brodycheese]

Wow, $5 million increase (after they already had a sweet tax rebate by contributing to York) and guess who bails for the big empty. Man this is utterly unbelievable how toronto just keep screwing up what should be a done deal. 25,000 stadium for MLS and CFL and Canadian Soccer should be completely feasible. Just don't understand this at all..

Argos drop York stadium deal

Pre-construction costs rising

Can play rent-free at Rogers Centre

DAMIEN COX

SPORTS REPORTER

Toronto's football Argonauts are expected to announce as early as today that they are pulling out of the York University stadium deal.

With the Rogers Centre trying to persuade the reigning Grey Cup champions to stay at the downtown retractable dome stadium with a sweetheart, rent-free deal, Argo owners Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon are facing rising costs at York.

Originally budgeted at $70 million, with the federal and provincial governments kicking in $35 million, it's believed costs have already climbed upwards of $75 million before a shovel has been stuck in the ground.

The Argos owners were scheduled to contribute $20 million to the stadium through a charitable donation to the York University Foundation, but they have also agreed to cover any unexpected costs or financial overruns.

In essence, Sokolowski and Cynamon could have ended up putting upwards of $30 million into the stadium for fewer than a dozen events per season, with York University still owning the structure.

The Argos were to have moved into the new York facility for the 2007 season but instead they are expected to announce plans to remain at the Rogers Centre and host the '07 Grey Cup game at the dome.

Whether the York stadium will still go ahead is now unclear. The Argos were only expected to need 10 dates a year, with the Canadian Soccer Association and Toronto Lynx soccer club to fill up much of the rest of the calendar.

In theory, the 25,000-seat project could still be downsized to 15,000 seats or less, and thus cost far less to build.

The stadium is committed to co-hosting the 2007 FIFA world youth soccer tournament with Edmonton, but FIFA only requires a minimum 10,000-seat venue for the event.

Whether the federal government, which is to contribute $27 million to the stadium, and the province, on the hook for $8 million, will continue to financially assist the project without the Argos is also unclear.

The news that the Argos won't be moving north will come as a disappointment to fans who looked forward to a cozy, open-air stadium, but it will be welcomed by those who believed the decision to abandon the downtown core was fatally flawed.

Originally, the football franchise hoped to locate a new stadium on the old site of the now-demolished Varsity Stadium, on the grounds of the University of Toronto.

When that plan died, the focus moved to York, with the project officially launched in October.

A month later, however, Rogers Communications, owners of the Toronto Blue Jays, acquired the SkyDome for $25 million.

They have since completed extensive renovations, including the installation of new turf and splashy video boards.

The Argos, who had purchased their own artificial playing surface last season and used it when Sportsco owned the dome and charged them annual rent in excess of $400,000, quickly struck a deal with Rogers to use the dome's new turf and were given a far better selection of home dates for the 2005 Canadian Football League season than Sportsco gave them last year.

Indeed, the Argos were forced last season to play their playoff game against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats on a Friday night because the dome had been rented to the Wiggles, a children's group.

There has also been speculation that Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which owns the Air Canada Centre, the NHL's Leafs and NBA's Raptors, was interested in purchasing a Major League Soccer franchise and locating it at the new stadium at York.

MLSE was at one point involved with the Argos in the Varsity Stadium project.

As well, there have been rumours about either MLSE or Rogers buying a piece of the Argos for months.

With MLSE now having announced plans for a $350 million commercial and residential development on the parcel of land immediately west of the Air Canada Centre, the area north of the Gardiner Expressway and adjacent to Union Station is expected to become an even greater magnet for sports and entertainment dollars.

For the Argos, the announcement of that project makes it even riskier to locate away from this sports hub and market the football team more specifically to families living in the suburbs.

With the Jays, Maple Leafs, Raptors and even the lacrosse Rock all playing in the downtown core, the Argos will stay in the thick of the sports action at the dome.

[Cheeta]

Interesting, but not really unexpected. I don't think anyone is surprised that Rogers is pushing hard to keep the Argos. Rent free or no, it'll be up to Sokolowski and company to decide if Skydome/Rogers Center/Whatever is in their best interest in the long term.

I wouldn't risk 1 penny betting Montreal would move back to the Big Owe if the venue were offered up for free or better. Not for one second. So I can't see the advantage in sticking in an ovesized park for the Argo organization outside of the immediate capital savings.

Tell you what it dose do. It gives the Argo ownership leverage to back out of underwriting the projects cost overruns. And with bringing 20 millions to the table that's a significant bit of capital to lose and the other partners involved may just have to bite the bullet just a little bit more.

Besides. If MLS dose come to Toronto I think the venture could fly less the Argos. It would be preferable if they were on board of course, but I don't think that it would be necessary.

After nice shiny and new York Stadium opens up, renovations or not, that half empty Skydome will be looking a poor choice as the Argos park.

[Daniel]

If this falls through and somehow we lose the WYC because of it, I'm gonna be pissed off beyond words.

[DJT]

Well, I said it before: I don't trust these Argo owners. Not in the sense that they are crooks, but in that I don't trust what they say, specifically that they would be willing to put that much money into the stadium. Certainly I always felt that if a better SkyDome deal would come along then they would prefer that, despite all they said about "needing" a different stadium.

I also don't trust MLSE in what they've said they would/want to do, but that's a whole other thing...

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by brodycheese

Wow, $5 million increase (after they already had a sweet tax rebate by contributing to York) and guess who bails for the big empty. Man this is utterly unbelievable how toronto just keep screwing up what should be a done deal. 25,000 stadium for MLS and CFL and Canadian Soccer should be completely feasible. Just don't understand this at all..

It's gone up $5 million after what like 2-3 months and all that has happened is the bean counters looked at the plans again. Imagine when the shovels hit the ground...

The York numbers have never made any sense at all.

SkyDome: with 30 000 people the place is pretty good in terms of atmosphere. This whole McGill/Alouettes mythology has been really blown out of proportion.

WYC 07: I still don't understand why the Dome can't be used?

The only positive is for all the anti-MLSers out there cause the Leafs ain't gonna fund this, and nobody else will either.

Actually, the Argo owners might be thinking since the gov't is already on the hook, they will cover the rest, so it can look like they are supporting the university and bringing the WYC to Canada, cause it would be a huge embarasment if Canada lost the tournament. So then the Argos could always jump ship in 2008. After all, the Liberals owe all the morons in this province who keep voting for them.

[DoyleG]

Elias,

One would expect that if MLSE would try and step into the gap left by the Argos, people will start asking why taxpayers money is being spent to support MLSE. People will say "If MLSE can fund it's own arena, why can't they do this stadium on thier own?"

I would suspect that MLSE still has debts hanging over it from the ACC.

[Sempuukyaku]

The way I see it, this is Vancouver's time to shine. If the Argos are pulling out and this stadium is in jeopardy, it's time for Vancouver to start accelerating their stadium plans and try to challenge Toronto for that host spot.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Sempuukyaku

The way I see it, this is Vancouver's time to shine. If the Argos are pulling out and this stadium is in jeopardy, it's time for Vancouver to start accelerating their stadium plans and try to challenge Toronto for that host spot.

They won't have two main stadiums in the West (for the WYC).

For NT games (if there are any), we'll have to see what each city ends up doing (including Montreal, St John's, etc.).

[JayWay]

This is a piss off, but hopefully it ends up resulting in a smaller, natural grass, soccer specific stadium.

[Massive Attack]

This is horrible news. Somebody (the government?) needs to step up to make sure that the stadium gets built. It would be embarassing to lose the tournament. This is what happen when you make your bed with a mickey-mouse organization (the Argos). The WYC is only 2 years away. It will take months to re-design the stadium to make it smaller and cheaper. That would be cutting it close.

Failing that, would Rogers/the Blue Jays consider taking a 1-month road-trip in June to allow the WYC to be played in the SkyDome, with natural grass installed?

Note: I'm going to write my MP and MPP and urge them to help save this project.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Failing that, would Rogers/the Blue Jays consider taking a 1-month road-trip in June to allow the WYC to be played in the SkyDome, with natural grass installed?

You're joking, right?

[canadiankick97]

This blows!

[Varsity Tyler]

lol what a gongshow. there is only one thing the Argos can do to lose my support, and they're flirting with it right now.

it'll be a small miracle if this thing gets built. fingers crossed.

P.S. Sean you need to get back into it with Frito Lays ... get them to threaten pulling out their sponsorship money if the Argos bail. Trust me on this one. [8D]

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

You're joking, right?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. This is my least favourable option. I want the stadium at York to be built. I also don't want to see Canada loose the 2007 WYC. June 2007 is fast approaching. How many times can this be re-designed? It will now take months for the architects/engineers to re-design the stadium to make it smaller, to fit into a budget that the CSA and York U. can afford. That will leave us with about 18 months to build the thing. We are running out of time.

[jaydog2006]

Its not up to the gov to build a stadium.Besides the fuss toronto made when the sens were in trouble and asked for some help.Certain people mostly in toronto said the rest of the prov should not have to pay to help the sens.Well that could come back to bite them.With all that said the gov can not pick 1 city when there are so many citys acrosse the country need help in forms of asst in new rinks/stadiums etc.While toronto has a park rogers centre witch is fine so in short no the gov should not and will not pay to build a park.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by jaydog2006

Its not up to the gov to build a stadium.Besides the fuss toronto made when the sens were in trouble and asked for some help.Certain people mostly in toronto said the rest of the prov should not have to pay to help the sens.Well that could come back to bite them.With all that said the gov can not pick 1 city when there are so many citys acrosse the country need help in forms of asst in new rinks/stadiums etc.While toronto has a park rogers centre witch is fine so in short no the gov should not and will not pay to build a park.

I totally disagree with this thinking. Helping Toronto to build this stadium ensures that 5 other Canadian host cities receive the benefits of having the WYC in 2007. Most likely, government will also be involved in improving other stadiums in this country along with building a new one in Toronto for the tournament. The collapse of the stadium in Toronto jeopordizes the entire tournament.

Oh yeah, never mind the fact that there is a $23 billion difference between the amount of money Ontario sends to Ottawa and what it gets back. Most of this money is generated in the GTA. Helping to fund this stadium would be like giving a little bit back.

[jaydog2006]

Yes i give a bit but not whole thing.Maybe 50% ottawa will benifit from hosting the ont summer games next year.

[devioustrevor]

Actually I think this could be better for the CSA in terms of deciding the playing surface. Now the CSA can demand grass is left in if they go out and find the $30M that the Argos are pulling out.

[Gian-Luca]

As a life-long Ti-Cat fan and hater of the Toronto Argo's I didn't think they could do anything to increase my hatred of them. But they have succeeded. This could cost us a lot - stadium, WYC, MLS, qualifications for future World Cups, and who knows what else.....

Its the same with U of T - if you're not going to do it, then don't say for the longest time that you are interested. I doubt there's enough time to salvage the situation this time round.

I was just at York earlier this week speaking to some of the faculty about this project, and nobody I spoke to had any idea this was about to happen.

[devioustrevor]

I say York and the CSA should sue the Argos. It wouldn't be resolved in time to build the stadium for the WYC, but they should do it just to spite Sokolowski and Cynamon. Hopefully MLSE will step up with an MLS bid and cover the $30M that the Argos were going to put up.

[Free kick]

Clearly, this is disasterous news. But I am not yet convinced that this news will spell the demise of the U20 WC. The CSA must have other options, but I am not sure that FIFA will be very happy if Canada goes ahead with this event with minimal or no involvement from Canada's largest city. I suspect that a 10K stadium just won't satisfy the poo bahs in Zurich despite what the article says. I am crossing my fingers that MLSE can step in.

Its hard to understand how the Argos owners can offer up the excuse of rising costs when in fact the article states that the costs have only risen from 70 to 75 mill and that they have repeatedly stated they could cover and shortfall. Could this be a ploy to force the various levels of Government to pony up more $$$?

[imported_n/a1394647443]

Maybe this is the point where MLSE steps in. The article stated that there have been rumours of either MLSE or Rogers buying a piece of the Argos. I always thought it was strange that MLSE would talk about having an MLS team in a building they didn't control (York when the Argos were involved)

[Jarrek]

This could be a nail in the coffin for the MLS bid. I'm not sure if MLSE will pursue an MLS franchise after this announcement. Because they sinking $300 million into the Air Canada Square project, I doubt they will put up the $30 million to cover the money shortfall the Argos created. WYC in Toronto is in jeopardy as well.

[imported_n/a1394647443]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

This could be a nail in the coffin for the MLS bid. I'm not sure if MLSE will pursue an MLS franchise after this announcement. Because they sinking $300 million into the Air Canada Square project, I doubt they will put up the $30 million to cover the money shortfall the Argos created. WYC in Toronto is in jeopardy as well.

Who knows what's going to happen with this stadium. It changes by the minute. I am quite sure that the WYC will be ok. Remember the World Aquatic Championships boondoggle in Montreal. The cancellation was such an embarrassment and it left little time for anyone else to prepare so the government stepped in and bailed them out. Worse case scenario, an arrangement with the Jays and SkyDome (Insert corporate name of the week)

[Jarrek]

Note: The news article doesn't sound as bad as the first one.

Argos rethinking York plan

The Toronto Argonauts acknowledged Friday that they may be having second thoughts about moving to a proposed outdoor stadium at York University.

The Argos and Canadian Soccer Association had announced plans for the 25,000 stadium, which is the cornerstone of Canada hosting the 2007 world under-20 soccer championship.

"We have been working diligently for the past several months with York University and the Canadian Soccer Association," the Argos said in a statement Friday. "This work has been conducted in an entirely business-like and professional manner, and has resulted in a credible and viable project that we believe would create a stadium at York on budget and on time.

"At this time, we have been offered a very attractive deal by the Rogers Centre which we looking at very closely."

The Rogers Centre, formerly known as SkyDome, has offered the CFL team a rent-free deal, the Toronto Star reported in Friday editions. As a result, the paper said, the Argos are expected to announce plans to remain at the Rogers Centre and host the 2007 Grey Cup game at the facility.

The Argo statement did not go that far, however.

Originally budgeted at $70 million, with the federal and provincial governments kicking in $35 million, the York University stadium may now cost more than $75 million, the Star said.

The federal government has agreed to contribute $27 million and the provincial government $8 million. York is contributing the land and $15 million with the Argos responsible for the final $20 million and any cost overruns.

Since the announcement of the outdoor stadium, Rogers Communications, owners of the Toronto Blue Jays, acquired the SkyDome for $25 million. They have since completed extensive renovations, including the installation of new turf and scoreboards.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1114163175229&call_pageid=968332188492&col=970081593064