Complete Homer Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, C2SKI said: I'd like to get an explanation on this. Given the info from Sandor (http://the11.ca/dec-4-is-decision-day-csa-to-vote-on-furys-potential-move-to-usl/) I strongly suspect the Fury are announcing the move without approval, playing chicken with the CSA. Not a good look for the whole organization, considering Pugh's position I don't think the CSA's position is inconsistent...yet. If they cave to the Fury then I think a lot of groups will start revisiting their applications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 My uniformed guess is that the CSA don't want to kill whatever momentum they have in the market if it's allowed. Ottawa is way too important a market to kill the team for the year and lose everything that the Fury has established there and try and resurrect if/when the CPL gets going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 A few news regarding the USL/NASL : Tampa Bay joined the USL today Ottawa Fury joined the USL today All teams in the NASL (except of NY Cosmos & Miami FC) have spoken to the USL about a move USL will now have 6 of the top 7 clubs attendance wise in the lower divisions, while NASL lose 3 of their top 4. (MUFC, TBR, OFFC) Two other teams are currently negotiating their exit from NASL USL will likely be granted D2 status in December Rayo OKC is potentially taking a year off to regroup Reported that FTL strikers were going to be bought from PSG and moved to USL (which got turned down) This could be the end of the NASL, and if FC Edmonton doesn't jump onboard (as it would make a ton of sense to their budget expenses) they'll likely have more games travelling cross country vs. being in a western conference playing ONLY western teams.....But we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 30 minutes ago, Rheo said: My uniformed guess is that the CSA don't want to kill whatever momentum they have in the market if it's allowed. Ottawa is way too important a market to kill the team for the year and lose everything that the Fury has established there and try and resurrect if/when the CPL gets going. I don't get what the big deal is with the move for the Fury. USL is going to get D2 sanctioning....and when they do, how does that affect their CPL aspirations (if any). They are essentially just changing leagues...not levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 30 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said: All teams in the NASL (except of NY Cosmos & Miami FC) have spoken to the USL about a move Even PRFC? That's impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: Even PRFC? That's impressive. Well if the Florida teams are talking, Carmelo better be....especially cause he wants local vibe to his team. NASL will get expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Victoria Highlanders fans are also likely to be asking what is going on: To be fair, moving from one US-based league to another US-based league is kinda potEHtoes potAHtoes kinda stuff. What I find more interesting is the notion that USL might now be in a better position to become a D2. That would allow the CSA to keep their provincially-based D3 leagues which I am fine with. What bugs me is that there is still no D3 for BC. The CanPL sounds great and all and yes, I'd rather be in that than PDL but I'd also rather be in a BCD3 than the PDL as well. So confusing that I think I need to chart my preferences of where Victoria plays next year (please forgive the digresssion) CanPL USL (if it "moves up" to D2) BCD3 PDL PCSL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Jahinho Guerro said: USL will likely be granted D2 status in December Really? I thought I read somewhere that the USSF recently rejected the USL D2 and NASL D1 proposals for this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Just now, David C. said: Really? I thought I read somewhere that the USSF recently rejected the USL D2 and NASL D1 proposals for this year? Read that, but also read theres suppose to be another vote in December...with the latest news/moves, and the NASL's unstable bunch of teams (FTL,OKC) could potentially either make NASL D3 or USL D2 as well...with that it'll look like 2010 again, which is what the USSF doesn't want. Further Perspective on the beginning of the NASL 2017 season: Minnesota United is joining MLS in 2017 (12 teams) They lost two teams to the USL at the end of 2016 (10 teams) FTL are currently in financial problems Rayo OKC are restructuring due to focus of putting money into main team and may take the year off (9 teams) SF Deltas will begin in the fall season of 2017 (8 teams) Don't mean to post this shit here, but it gives context: 2014 Standards for Professional Leagues (Division II Men’s Outdoor League): a. Composition; Play i. League must have a minimum of eight teams to apply. By year three (NASL is in year 5), the league must have a minimum of 10 teams. By year six, the league must have a minimum of 12 teams. ii. U.S.‐based teams must participate in all representative CONCACAF competitions for which they are eligible. b. Markets; Stadia; and Fields i. In the first year, U.S.‐based teams must be located in at least two different time zones in the continental United States. By year six, U.S.‐based teams must be located in at least the Eastern, Central and Pacific time zones. (These three time zones are required because the majority of the large population centers are located in these time zones.) ii. At least 75 percent of the league’s teams must play in metropolitan markets of at least 750,000 persons. (benefits the USL) iii. All league stadiums must have a minimum seating capacity of 5,000. iv. Not later than 120 days prior to the start of each season, each team shall have a lease for at least one full season with its home stadium. c. Financial Viability i. League must demonstrate adequate financial viability to ensure continued operation on a season‐by‐season basis either in the form of a performance bond or similar instrument for each team in the amount of seven hundred fifty thousand US dollars (US $750,000), or readily‐available league funds representing such amounts. The maximum amount of such funds for any league shall be fifteen million US dollars (US $15,000,000) and will be used to cover the costs of the teams’ operations (including, without limitation, player and staff salaries and wages, stadium lease commitments and third party vendor obligations in addition to commitments by each team to the league) for a season, should that become necessary. If the performance bonds or similar instruments are joint and several amongst the teams and the league, the amounts may be reduced to five hundred thousand US dollars (US $500,000) per team with a maximum of ten million US dollars (US $10,000,000) in aggregate. Any team whose performance bond is used during the season will be required to replenish it at least 120 days prior to the next season. ii. Each team ownership group must demonstrate the financial capacity to operate the team for three years. As part of the process of demonstrating financial capacity, each ownership group must provide detailed financial history (if applicable) and projections (including a detailed budget) for the team to the Federation in a form satisfactory to the Federation. In addition, each team must have and its governing documents must designate one principal owner with a controlling interest who owns at least 35% of the team and has authority to bind the team. Such principal owner must have an individual net worth of at least twenty million US dollars (US $20,000,000) exclusive of the value of his/her ownership in the league or team and his/her primary personal residence. Federation shall have the right to require an independent audit to establish that the principal owner’s net worth meets this requirement; the cost of such audit shall be the responsibility of the team or league. The Federation will take reasonable steps to protect from disclosure and limit access to financial information provided under this section. d. Team Organization i. All of the required positions set forth in Section I(g) must be filled by full‐time staff year‐round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Complete Homer said: For anyone who thinks Rollins has any sort of credibility: Of course the CPL won't be a division of USL. The USL actually EXISTS. This is our east, west central divisions and new this year our "phantom" division with no teams but a lot of rumours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, C2SKI said: I'd like to get an explanation on this. I, and some others, have been saying this from the start of CPL talk and the D3 ban. What a massive disaster this CPL proposal has been for Canadian soccer in reality thus far. Montagliani wanted the CPL as part of the World Cup bid (which, don't forget, was affiliated with Traffic and NASL) and was willing to sacrifice many years of serious club soccer in Victoria, Hamilton and the like to bolster his bid. The most generous interpretation is that he wanted to give the CPL idea a year or two to try and get going as an independent concern but the gamble failed and we are now where we should have been three years ago and it will take an unknown amount of time to get the ownership groups in Victoria and London organized again, if they ever do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pqhbv Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 3 hours ago, ted said: To be fair, moving from one US-based league to another US-based league is kinda potEHtoes potAHtoes kinda stuff. What I find more interesting is the notion that USL might now be in a better position to become a D2. That would allow the CSA to keep their provincially-based D3 leagues which I am fine with. What bugs me is that there is still no D3 for BC. The CanPL sounds great and all and yes, I'd rather be in that than PDL but I'd also rather be in a BCD3 than the PDL as well. So confusing that I think I need to chart my preferences of where Victoria plays next year (please forgive the digresssion) CanPL USL (if it "moves up" to D2) BCD3 PDL PCSL I really want to see Div3's across the nation as well. Not to rain on your parade but given the CSA's position & actions on the PDL in Ontario, i would imagine that once a BCD3 did show up the PDL teams would have to choose between that or the PCSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 18 minutes ago, Pqhbv said: I really want to see Div3's across the nation as well. Not to rain on your parade but given the CSA's position & actions on the PDL in Ontario, i would imagine that once a BCD3 did show up the PDL teams would have to choose between that or the PCSL. Can we murder the PCSL already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 For anyone asking what the Fury's move to USL means for the CPL, here's what John Pugh said on the issue in the Ottawa Sun. Since I know some will jump on this quote as proof that the CPL is fiction, or is already a failure, or will fail when it gets up and running.....this quote does not mean there will not be a CPL in the future; it simply means that there is no CPL as of October 25, 2016. “There still exists a goal, which has been stated by the Canadian Soccer Association, which is to have a national league in the near future,” said Pugh. “At the moment, there is no high-level Canadian professional league. If one was established and it was good for our fans and our franchise, we would look at it. Right now, it’s impossible to say.” I'm not happy about the Fury switching leagues to save a reported $200k a year (as per this article http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/10/25/ottawa-fury-fc-confirms-it-will-move-to-new-league), but it's also not the end of the world either. The worst part of this whole situation is the fact that the Fury shut down their academy, and from that angle I am truly disappointed with the club. From my perspective, I hate the fluidity of Canadian club soccer at the NASL, USL and CPL (if it actually comes to fruition) levels right now. Just make a decision one way or another and get on with it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 30 minutes ago, shermanator said: I'm not happy about the Fury switching leagues to save a reported $200k a year (as per this article http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/10/25/ottawa-fury-fc-confirms-it-will-move-to-new-league), but it's also not the end of the world either. The worst part of this whole situation is the fact that the Fury shut down their academy, and from that angle I am truly disappointed with the club. Woah, woah, woah, woaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Disappointing to say the ultimate least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 The word I'd gotten was that the academy shutdown was only partially to save money. As a whole, they were very unhappy with the way the structure was working (it was heavily dependent on local clubs that, at least from the individual I spoke with, were very flaky). The eventual plan is to reboot the academy, but it wasn't clear when "eventually" was supposed to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 7 hours ago, shermanator said: From my perspective, I hate the fluidity of Canadian club soccer at the NASL, USL and CPL (if it actually comes to fruition) levels right now. Just make a decision one way or another and get on with it already. The people with the money to make things happen clearly have sharply diverging visions over what should happen next. The CSA have limited room for manoeuvre because they don't have the money needed to make any particular approach happen, if the people with the money don't want to follow them in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pqhbv Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 How easy is it really for a USL team to leave though? Usually franchise models have exit fees, branding rights, X# of years in a non-compete clause etc. If Ottawa got a sweetheart deal in a waived expansion fee just to save $200K per year there really had to be some benefit for the USL's corporation. NB. Doesn't $200k seem almost too small difference, if it potentially causes problems with the CSA, dissolving the academy and issues leaving the USL/joining the CPL in the future. Wasn't 200k in savings just dumping Ritchie and Heineman's player contracts last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 28 minutes ago, Pqhbv said: How easy is it really for a USL team to leave though? Usually franchise models have exit fees, branding rights, X# of years in a non-compete clause etc. If Ottawa got a sweetheart deal in a waived expansion fee just to save $200K per year there really had to be some benefit for the USL's corporation. NB. Doesn't $200k seem almost too small difference, if it potentially causes problems with the CSA, dissolving the academy and issues leaving the USL/joining the CPL in the future. Wasn't 200k in savings just dumping Ritchie and Heineman's player contracts last year... I think it comes down to when/if CPL starts and their academies are ready to play in either a CSA D2 or D3 league, what happens then? CSA won't sanction Canadian clubs in USSF leagues once CPL is up and running. So they either join CPL 1 or CPL 2 or D3...or they could be de-sanctioned meaning USL can't operate in Canada, by default no Fury games in Ottawa No V cup Pretty much...join the new pyramid, sell or fold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 @Ansem, you were saying just last week that the CSA had the MLS/USL/USSF 'over a barrel' and that they 'held all the cards'. Why is the Fury joining USL given all this barrel-overing and card-holding the CSA is doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said: @Ansem, you were saying just last week that the CSA had the MLS/USL/USSF 'over a barrel' and that they 'held all the cards'. Why is the Fury joining USL given all this barrel-overing and card-holding the CSA is doing? Because the Fury has nowhere else to go. They are already playing in a USSF sanctioned league. There's no big deal switching leagues at this point. Once CPL starts however, they will have to rejoin the CSA pyramid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 The CSA has repeatedly said they aren't going to force existing teams over. Can't see them changing that policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 6 hours ago, Ansem said: CSA won't sanction Canadian clubs in USSF leagues once CPL is up and running. So they either join CPL 1 or CPL 2 or D3...or they could be de-sanctioned meaning USL can't operate in Canada, by default no Fury games in Ottawa No V cup Pretty much...join the new pyramid, sell or fold Very good way to reward people who've invested their time and money to make something happen. Fantastic way to entice new investors to put money up. CPL 1/2/3??? WTF we are up to a full pyramid now? Wonderful. When do they start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 46 minutes ago, TRM said: Very good way to reward people who've invested their time and money to make something happen. Fantastic way to entice new investors to put money up. CPL 1/2/3??? WTF we are up to a full pyramid now? Wonderful. When do they start? Oh please. don't give me that. If you want to start a soccer club, don't try to fool anyone into believing that they weren't told how FIFA, and CSA rules worked BEFORE going into business and getting a CSA sanction. Crying foul because things aren't getting your way is ridiculous. Didn't the CSA allow the Fury and all the others to play in USSF sanctioned leagues? Yes they did and have little to show for it. Are they allowing Fury to move to USL? According to reports, yes they are. So let me ask you this, if the CSA does indeed revamp their pyramid and makes it functional, what's in it for them and the national program to keep letting them operate from USSF sanctioned leagues and by default, giving those US leagues a green card to penetrate important markets and siphoning the money back to the south of the border? We've been doing that for decades, what do we have to show for it? Pretty sure most people would agree that status quo can't go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Complete Homer said: The CSA has repeatedly said they aren't going to force existing teams over. Can't see them changing that policy MLS teams? no they most likely won't if a deal on Canadian being domestic is reached, but NASL and USL teams? Why wouldn't they? What's the point of the CSA if you aren't having canadian clubs play in Canadian leagues once they exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.