ironcub14 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 We have one example to look at, if anybody has San Antonio's average attendance from this year and last year. I'll look for it later today, but if anybody has it relatively off-the-shelf, then that'd be one example to look at. Though San Antonio has obviously been making noise about MLS and changed ownership, I think, so not exactly a great comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pqhbv Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 10/18/2016 at 10:07 AM, ironcub14 said: We have one example to look at, if anybody has San Antonio's average attendance from this year and last year. I'll look for it later today, but if anybody has it relatively off-the-shelf, then that'd be one example to look at. Though San Antonio has obviously been making noise about MLS and changed ownership, I think, so not exactly a great comparison. IIRC off the top of my head their average attendance trended downward by ~700 people per game after going to the USL... Kind of surprising, considering the MLS push hype, and the marketing arm of the Spurs (SSE) was involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 As you can see below attendance has been dropping by about 100 per year for 2013/14/15 and 600 this year. 2012 = 9,176 NASL 2013 = 6,937 NASL 2014 = 6,810 NASL 2015 = 6,736 NASL 2016 = 6,170 USL But there are some bright spots. Their 6,170 average is 4th in the league. SAFC surpassed the previous single-game attendance record for soccer with 8,466 on April 9 at Toyota Field. So they actually beat their old mark from their NASL days at Toyota Field. The USL as a whole had a 33% increase in attendance. Here are the top 10 Team Total Attendance Average Attendance FC Cincinnati 259,437 17,296 Sacramento Republic 172,711 11,514 Louisville City FC 108,269 7,218 San Antonio FC 92,546 6,170 OKC Energy FC 74,249 4,950 Saint Louis FC 73,841 4,923 Richmond Kickers 59,941 3,996 Tulsa Roughnecks FC 59,247 3,950 Rochester Rhinos 54,819 3,655 Charleston Battery 53,563 3,570 Overall, the USL averaged 3,439 per game and recorded 58 sellouts during the 2016 season . That is lower than NASL (2015 = 5909 but 2016 isn't available yet) but some like Montreal FC and TFC2 drag the USL averages down a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pqhbv Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Average attendance grew by 2.1% in the USL. 13 of 23 returning teams saw a decrease in attendance. The 33% number is total attendance and all from FCC. The only bright spots attendance wise for the USL were SRFC continuing to be SRFC, and the unheralded success of FCC. Those two clubs carried league wide attendance numbers league average and gross. TFC2 actually contributed to the total sellout number! Re: SAFC with their highest recorded attendance of 8,466 at Toyota Park, the hype of MLS and the Spurs involvement still saw a decrease... Like I said before that's kind of surprising all things considered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Attendance stats in pro soccer in North America often don't bear any correlation to how many people actually pay to attend the games, so obsessing over the announced numbers tends to be a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 23 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Attendance stats in pro soccer in North America often don't bear any correlation to how many people actually pay to attend the games, so obsessing over the announced numbers tends to be a waste of time. Well we need something to obsess about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 4 hours ago, Pqhbv said: Average attendance grew by 2.1% in the USL. 13 of 23 returning teams saw a decrease in attendance. The 33% number is total attendance and all from FCC. Of course they spin it the best way they can. That is called marketing. USL did grow by 33% in total attendance and yes most of that was from new teams and the 2 big ones do the most but they are steadily growing the number of teams. 4 hours ago, Pqhbv said: Re: SAFC with their highest recorded attendance of 8,466 at Toyota Park, the hype of MLS and the Spurs involvement still saw a decrease... Like I said before that's kind of surprising all things considered... First year in a new league and only 600 shy of their NASL level. It will be interesting to see how they do next year. It is a lower level of play than NASL but still a very good league for players to get time in and prove themselves worthy of a shot at the next level up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/10/20/usl-president-jake-edwards-eyes-more-expansion-tweaks-affiliate-system Notes for the new year: Only confirmed team new team is Reno (SJ's RGV-style affiliate) Wants to move more reserve teams to the RGV model, semi-independent clubs separated geographically. Centralizing TV production in Florida to keep costs down. Will comment on Tampa Bay and Ottawa after the season ends (sounds like they are coming on board). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/20/2016 at 9:00 PM, Dub Narcotic said: http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/10/20/usl-president-jake-edwards-eyes-more-expansion-tweaks-affiliate-system Notes for the new year: Only confirmed team new team is Reno (SJ's RGV-style affiliate) Wants to move more reserve teams to the RGV model, semi-independent clubs separated geographically. Centralizing TV production in Florida to keep costs down. Will comment on Tampa Bay and Ottawa after the season ends (sounds like they are coming on board). Continuing on from that article...another one from Sports Illustrated that reflects the pains of trying to be a competitive professional league as well as a development league at the same time.http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/10/22/mls-usl-partnership-jake-edwards While I understand that the Rio Grande Valley model has been more successful commercially, how does this benefit the player? (which is what this is all supposed to be about) Take the San Jose and Reno partnership...those cities are a 4 hour drive apart. That reserve team isn't interacting with or training with the first team. You can't easily bring up players that have earned the opportunity to be looked at. How are you going to promote youth team players to the reserves that are 4 hours away. This is now becoming like minor leagues in baseball, which I think is worse than reserve teams from a player perspective. I would much rather players be sent out on loan to independent teams at an appropriate level and have them compete for their spot, which I have always advocated for. Another quote I found interesting from Edwards is this one..." if they’re not able to meet the standards and operate a team and create an environment at the level we require, they won’t continue. " So what would they do to a team like FC Montreal that doesn't even charge for tickets? (Is that still accurate? I know that was the case in year 1). Are they going to say sorry, you are out, and force them into a model that doesn't suit the needs of the club or player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Don't think there is any huge need for daily interaction with the first team roster. MLS rosters are large enough to be able to sustain 11 vs 11 in training when needed, so the main issue is keeping coaching in house so the players on the development roster are trained and used in a way that makes it easy for them to step up and contribute straight away at MLS level. The obvious attraction of the FGV model is that it enables MLS teams to offset the costs of their development operations. Quebec City would be the obvious market for that in a Montreal context and from what I remember Joey Saputo was talking about doing it in an NASL context when the Impact stepped up to MLS. It will take a few years for MLS to get their reserve team operations fully up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 San Antonio accidentally posted a tweet welcoming Ottawa and Tampa Bay to USL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Jumped the gun by only a few days by the looks of things: http://www.indomitablecitysoccer.com/2016/10/23/13376402/usl-to-announce-two-2017-expansion-teams-next-week-ottawa-tampa-bay USL President Jake Edwards said today, during the halftime show of the 2016 USL Cup, that the league will be announcing two 2017 expansion teams next week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Expansion or a simple switch in league? I wonder whether Ottawa and TB are really paying anything substantial to join USL. Given that NASL regular season is going on, the clubs could have waited out of respect for the other clubs. Guess they just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 36 minutes ago, ray said: Expansion or a simple switch in league? I wonder whether Ottawa and TB are really paying anything substantial to join USL. Given that NASL regular season is going on, the clubs could have waited out of respect for the other clubs. Guess they just don't care. It's not like they've announced anything yet, so they're still technically waiting. Rumours are always going to fly about this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Gopherbashi said: It's not like they've announced anything yet, so they're still technically waiting. Rumours are always going to fly about this stuff. It's borderline confirmed at this point. Especially the deleted tweet last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Minnesota United announced their departure for MLS during the season, so I guess there is a precedent for not waiting until the season is over. Only thing that's not fully clear to me is the process of gaining sanctioning from the CSA given they have been opposed to non-reserve teams from Canada playing in the USL and it's not that long ago that Steve Sandor wrote this: http://the11.ca/if-ottawa-fury-was-to-move-to-usl-the-club-would-need-csas-blessing-and-no-application-has-been-made/ Canada Soccer has confirmed that it has not received an application from the Fury in regards to a potential USL move. Repeat. No application to the CSA has been made as of yet. And Canada Soccer confirmed that a potential move by any club to the USL would need to be approved by the Association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 47 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: It's borderline confirmed at this point. Especially the deleted tweet last night I don't dispute that it's happening, but it's not like OFFC had some press conference shitting on the NASL months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Minnesota United announced their departure for MLS during the season, so I guess there is a precedent for not waiting until the season is over. Only thing that's not fully clear to me is the process of gaining sanctioning from the CSA given they have been opposed to non-reserve teams from Canada playing in the USL and it's not that long ago that Steve Sandor wrote this: http://the11.ca/if-ottawa-fury-was-to-move-to-usl-the-club-would-need-csas-blessing-and-no-application-has-been-made/ Canada Soccer has confirmed that it has not received an application from the Fury in regards to a potential USL move. Repeat. No application to the CSA has been made as of yet. And Canada Soccer confirmed that a potential move by any club to the USL would need to be approved by the Association. "If CSL can continue unsanctioned, so can we!" - OFFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 31 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: "If CSL can continue unsanctioned, so can we!" - OFFC OFFC to CSL confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: OFFC to CSL confirmed "I always enjoyed gambling... being able to bet on my own team was the clear logical next step" - Jeff Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Thing is the OFFC president John Pugh is on the CSA exec, so a move to being unsanctioned clearly isn't happening. It looks like the guy who first tweeted about Fury to USL had his finger on the pulse. Here's his take on how things stand at the moment: If TFC think they are going to be part of "CPL" that caveat about it being part of the USL system doesn't seem all that far-fetched, if the CSA have signed off on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Thing is the OFFC president John Pugh is on the CSA exec, so a move to being unsanctioned clearly isn't happening. It looks like the guy who first tweeted about Fury to USL had his finger on the pulse. Here's his take on how things stand at the moment: If TFC think they are going to be part of "CPL" that caveat about it being part of the USL system doesn't seem all that far-fetched, if the CSA have signed off on this. It was very clearly a joke dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Was aware of that. This just popped up under #USL on twitter: Suggests that USL may soon be sanctioned at D2 level by the USSF, which would eliminate the CSA's objection to USL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 On 10/23/2016 at 4:37 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Don't think there is any huge need for daily interaction with the first team roster. MLS rosters are large enough to be able to sustain 11 vs 11 in training when needed, so the main issue is keeping coaching in house so the players on the development roster are trained and used in a way that makes it easy for them to step up and contribute straight away at MLS level. The obvious attraction of the FGV model is that it enables MLS teams to offset the costs of their development operations. Quebec City would be the obvious market for that in a Montreal context and from what I remember Joey Saputo was talking about doing it in an NASL context when the Impact stepped up to MLS. It will take a few years for MLS to get their reserve team operations fully up to speed. The bottom handful of the MLS roster is what makes up the reserve team. So of course there is a need for interaction with the first team if this is being done for the right reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just as Kurtis Larson acts as the spokesperson for TFC, Fury Fanatic is basically at this point acting as a spokesperson for Fury FC, alongside AJ Jakubec. Duane Rollins had told me and several others on twitter, a few weeks ago, and the above tweets from Fury Fanatic seem to go along with this, that there may very well be a competing CPL bid coming from Ottawa, if OSEG does not go along with CPL. I've argued in the main CPL thread for the USL Canada option in the past, but I'm not happy to hear that, if a CPL were to really go forward, that OSEG is not willing to be a part of this from the get go, from two different perspectives. It obviously sucks to hear OSEG thinks USL would be a better way to go than CPL. But it also sucks to hear that the CPL group, whether it be Young, McGrane or Vic, that they cannot convince OSEG to follow along with them. Overall, I'm very much holding out to see just how many concrete ownership groups actually come to fruition in a CPL over the next 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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