Expansion draft on Nov 24th

[Standard]

Sounders FC get O'Brian White from Vancouver for allocation $. Sanna Nyassi has been traded to the Colorado Rapids for int'l roster spot.

[Standard]

Nice, good move.

Yeah pleased with that, also no OBW

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Yeah OBW, is gone, take him Sounders for Allocation.

and Nyassi as well to the Rapids for INT spot

[bettermirror]

"Following the Expansion Draft, Whitecaps FC traded their first pick in Sanna Nyassi to 2010 MLS Cup champions Colorado Rapids for an international player spot. Vancouver then dealt fifth-round selection Alan Gordon back to Chivas USA for another international player spot, as well as seventh-round selection Alejandro Moreno to Chivas USA for allocation money. Vancouver also traded their sixth-round selection in O'Brian White to Pacific Northwest rivals Seattle Sounders FC for allocation money." from BC Soccer Web.

Yep, glad OBW is gone! To sign Nyassi and then trade him right away....they obviously have a superior international player in mind!? One of Steve Nash' buddies maybe!?

[matthew]

I’m glad to see the Caps decided to follow Toronto’s path to success by drafting old, expensive players and shipping them around for rosters spots, allocation money to spend on unknowns and unproven players. Why fill the holes in your roster with players who know the league and have a track record you can judge them on, when you can pay other players more when you have no idea how they’ll find life in MLS.

There was at least a dozen players up for grabs that will be decent players in this league who made $40,000 last year. Addressing the needs up front was difficult, but get a right back, get a right mid (Salinas wasn’t a bad choice, Harris is okay, if a little pricey), find some depth players who are definitely MLS calibre . . . Joe Cannon? Joe Cannon? Why not Dykstra or Knighton? They cost a fraction of his salary, are half his age and are both pretty good.

And John Thorrington? WTF. A 31-yo guy who makes $177,000? Why? You could get a starting right back like Robbie Russell or Cristian Arrieta for less than that. They’re not long term solutions, but they would be solid players an a definite upgrade over Knight. I can’t believe they took Cannon over Tim Ward who was who I thought they should take to fill the RB spot.

I decided to put my money where my mouth is and did a mock draft while the draft was happening. It broke down towards the end as some of Portland’s picks weren’t possible, but here’s who I would have picked for Vancouver:

1. Robbie Russell, RSL; 2. Blaise Nkufo, Sea; 3. Eric Avila, Dal; 4. Tim Ward, SJ; 5. Sanna Nyassi, Sea; 6. Shea Salinas — Phi; 7. Adam Cristman — DCU; 8. Andrew Dykstra — Chi; 9. Andrew Jacobsen — Phi; 10. Olukorede Aiyegbusi — Sporting Kansas City.

The biggest disappointment was that Portland took two Columbus players meaning Lenhart was gone, which is why I took Cristman. And FWIW the last six picks all made the league minimum last year . . .

I hope Vancouver’s brain trust has a better plan than Toronto did.

cheers,

matthew

[Keegan]

I'm glad to see Vancouver picked Cannon... could pay dividends for the CMNT! And even if it doesn't he's a solid keeper for Vancouver and an improvement over Nolly

[tmcmurph]

Well there goes my starting 11. Nyassi gone? Must have someone planned because he was noticeable on the field every time I saw him play.

OBW, whew, that makes me feel better. Take 2 good ones from Seattle and give them OBW..... makes a Caps fan heart feel good.

[Grizzly]

I’m glad to see the Caps decided to follow Toronto’s path to success by drafting old, expensive players and shipping them around for rosters spots, allocation money to spend on unknowns and unproven players. Why fill the holes in your roster with players who know the league and have a track record you can judge them on, when you can pay other players more when you have no idea how they’ll find life in MLS.

I am not sure this is a bad strategy though. The problem for TFC was that it was Mo Johnston who was selecting the players not the strategy itself.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The problem for TFC was that it was Mo Johnston who was selecting the players not the strategy itself.

Another GM probably wouldn't even have been able to figure out the strategy in the first place (almost nobody saw it coming in 2006) so you are taking your ongoing hate campaign to a whole new level with that. Can't you give the guy credit for getting at least one aspect of his job right? The key problem with Mo Johnston, which eventually led to his downfall, was in the international transfer market not with the various MLS drafts. He wasn't able to use the allocation money to full advantage once he had accumulated it in other words. Over 300k per season on a player like Carl Robinson, while using a long ball style that sailed right over the heads of the central midfielders a lot of the time, being a key early example of mismanagement of the salary cap.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Well there goes my starting 11. Nyassi gone? Must have someone planned because he was noticeable on the field every time I saw him play.

OBW, whew, that makes me feel better. Take 2 good ones from Seattle and give them OBW..... makes a Caps fan heart feel good.

When I went to Sounders-Dynamo last summer there was one player I thought had to be in Europe, with a great future, and smart on the field: Nyassi. An incredible prospect. Sure, he is a wing player, he does a specfic job, but that talented and that young is hard to find. So I am dissappointed they dropped him.

[Lord Bob]

I wouldn't take Nyassi on my team. He's quick and brave but simply can't do anything with the ball once he gets in position: he's all smoke and no fire. At Sounder at Heart, the comments were actively celebrating his departure.

[matthew]

I am not sure this is a bad strategy though. The problem for TFC was that it was Mo Johnston who was selecting the players not the strategy itself.

Absolutely their player selection didn’t help, but the idea is behind it is still flawed IMO.

When given the choice between picking between the known and the unknown when building a franchise, I don’t know why you put all of your eggs in the ‘unknown’ basket. Especially when the unknown is more expensive (though how much more expensive is another unknown) than the known and the salary cap is so incredibly restrictive.

You’re basically gambling that every decision you make works out and you get good value for your money. Which is essentially what you’re doing either way, I suppose, but when it comes to players with no experience in MLS the odds tend to be less than .500 that you get good return on the investment. The odds are a lot better (and the risk far lower) with domestic players.

Look at how many foreign guys the Whitecaps tried this season whom they deemed not good enough. They’re going to do the same thing next season when the stakes are higher when they had the chance to add a couple of proven MLS starters and some experienced players making the league minimum to fill up the 30 man roster with.

BBTB> are you saying the catastrophic start of TFC was the thing Mo Johnston got right? Passing over young, cheap serviceable players (many of whom are still starters in the league, some important players on very good teams), deciding to spend their allocation money on the most expensive type of player possible (players from the UK) and putting their money into the most easily acquirable talent in MLS (defensive midfielders and right-footed flank players) was a good plan? They’re still recovering from those mistakes.

Why spend $300,000 on a holding mid when you know you’re drafting Edu first overall? They also took Paulo Nagamura and Danny O’Rourke in the expansion draft. Now you can argue the relative merits of Nagamura vs. O’Rourke vs. Robinson, but Nagamura and O’Rourke cost peanuts compared to Robinson and both started 14 games this season. Spend the money on a scorer or a No. 10.

There were all sorts of interesting cheap players on offer for Toronto in 96. Jeff Laurentowicz had just started 19 games for New England (one of the best teams in the league) and made the league minimum. James Riley was also a New England regular . . .

I know hindsight is 20-20, but it doesn’t take a genius to think that a cheap, young player who is breaking into one of the best teams in the league as a starter might be a good pick-up. Or you could trade all of your picks for cash and buy Carl Robinson, Andy Welsh, Collin Samuel and Rohan Ricketts.

Anthony Wallace, Tim Ward, Eric Avila, Steve Lenhart, Nathan Sturgis, Sanna Nyassi, Shea Salinas, Peter Lowry, Bobby Burling, Léandre Griffit, Steve Beitashour, Brad Knighton, Andrew Dykstra . . . I think some of those guys will end up being very good MLS players and for quite awhile. I will wager that more than half will ultiamtely be better and cheaper than half of the allocation players that Vancouver ends up using. And I don’t say that because I think have some sort of all seeing eye for soccer talent, there’s just been enough years of history repeating itself for me to assume that it will repeat itself once again.

Look at New England (02-07), San Jose/Houston (01-08), Chicago (98-03) and DC United (96-99) . . . those were the best franchises in MLS history for an extnded run. The core of their team was domestic players and very good CONCACAF talents that they acquired when they were relatively unknown. They spent money for a few key foreign players and when they did they were ceators, goal scorers or veteran defensive players (usually a central defender). Those teams have so much in common with each other it’s almost ridiculous. You still have to find the right players, but they were all, at least, looking at the same places to find them.

The teams that kept throwing money at foreigners and trading young domestics for allocations (New York, LA in the early days) were teams that rarely succeeded.

I thought Vancouver was setting themselves up very well. DeMerit, Chiumiento and Dunfield (depending on what he’s making) were exactly the right kind of signings. Then they decided to trade for foreign spots and allocation money. I’m hoping they have a plan. I’m hoping they appreciate the economics of the way they’re trying to build. It could work, obviously, but history is against them.

Sorry for the rant, but watching this for the second time feels like watching an NHL team looking at how Pittsburgh and Chicago won the Stanley Cup and deciding that they’re not going to build through the draft.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I wouldn't take Nyassi on my team. He's quick and brave but simply can't do anything with the ball once he gets in position: he's all smoke and no fire. At Sounder at Heart, the comments were actively celebrating his departure.

Gambian u-20 player, now on the national team, two-time Open Cup champ with Seattle, Gambian Cup champ when still a teen. And only 21 years old. Yes, he is a role player, but a key role, the wing. He is smart with the ball, he controls well, it is not just speed and flash.

At that age with that upside, you have to have the confidence you can help polish the talent. But Teitur, as we know, does not have that confidence. He has yet to show an ability to choose a player he likes and play him where he thinks he will work effectively. Stick with him and prove his instinct in signing him right. He is totally chaotic, and with all these suits in there mixing it up with him, the way the team is coming together is not too clear.

A coach as I see it, has to have an eye for players. Teitur does not, he has a neck, a loose neck, which is spinning this way and that and signing and selling and dropping and trading, and that lack of clarity shows in the way the team is being put together.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

BBTB> are you saying the catastrophic start of TFC was the thing Mo Johnston got right?

Why waste my time with a patently absurd strawman argument? Beyond that I think you should ponder these two quotes.

Why spend $300,000 on a holding mid when you know you’re drafting Edu first overall?

Over 300k per season on a player like Carl Robinson, while using a long ball style that sailed right over the heads of the central midfielders a lot of the time, being a key early example of mismanagement of the salary cap.

[Gordon]

Absolutely their player selection didn’t help, but the idea is behind it is still flawed IMO.

When given the choice between picking between the known and the unknown when building a franchise, I don’t know why you put all of your eggs in the ‘unknown’ basket. Especially when the unknown is more expensive (though how much more expensive is another unknown) than the known and the salary cap is so incredibly restrictive.

You’re basically gambling that every decision you make works out and you get good value for your money. Which is essentially what you’re doing either way, I suppose, but when it comes to players with no experience in MLS the odds tend to be less than .500 that you get good return on the investment. The odds are a lot better (and the risk far lower) with domestic players.

Look at how many foreign guys the Whitecaps tried this season whom they deemed not good enough. They’re going to do the same thing next season when the stakes are higher when they had the chance to add a couple of proven MLS starters and some experienced players making the league minimum to fill up the 30 man roster with.

BBTB> are you saying the catastrophic start of TFC was the thing Mo Johnston got right? Passing over young, cheap serviceable players (many of whom are still starters in the league, some important players on very good teams), deciding to spend their allocation money on the most expensive type of player possible (players from the UK) and putting their money into the most easily acquirable talent in MLS (defensive midfielders and right-footed flank players) was a good plan? They’re still recovering from those mistakes.

Why spend $300,000 on a holding mid when you know you’re drafting Edu first overall? They also took Paulo Nagamura and Danny O’Rourke in the expansion draft. Now you can argue the relative merits of Nagamura vs. O’Rourke vs. Robinson, but Nagamura and O’Rourke cost peanuts compared to Robinson and both started 14 games this season. Spend the money on a scorer or a No. 10.

There were all sorts of interesting cheap players on offer for Toronto in 96. Jeff Laurentowicz had just started 19 games for New England (one of the best teams in the league) and made the league minimum. James Riley was also a New England regular . . .

I know hindsight is 20-20, but it doesn’t take a genius to think that a cheap, young player who is breaking into one of the best teams in the league as a starter might be a good pick-up. Or you could trade all of your picks for cash and buy Carl Robinson, Andy Welsh, Collin Samuel and Rohan Ricketts.

Anthony Wallace, Tim Ward, Eric Avila, Steve Lenhart, Nathan Sturgis, Sanna Nyassi, Shea Salinas, Peter Lowry, Bobby Burling, Léandre Griffit, Steve Beitashour, Brad Knighton, Andrew Dykstra . . . I think some of those guys will end up being very good MLS players and for quite awhile. I will wager that more than half will ultiamtely be better and cheaper than half of the allocation players that Vancouver ends up using. And I don’t say that because I think have some sort of all seeing eye for soccer talent, there’s just been enough years of history repeating itself for me to assume that it will repeat itself once again.

Look at New England (02-07), San Jose/Houston (01-08), Chicago (98-03) and DC United (96-99) . . . those were the best franchises in MLS history for an extnded run. The core of their team was domestic players and very good CONCACAF talents that they acquired when they were relatively unknown. They spent money for a few key foreign players and when they did they were ceators, goal scorers or veteran defensive players (usually a central defender). Those teams have so much in common with each other it’s almost ridiculous. You still have to find the right players, but they were all, at least, looking at the same places to find them.

The teams that kept throwing money at foreigners and trading young domestics for allocations (New York, LA in the early days) were teams that rarely succeeded.

I thought Vancouver was setting themselves up very well. DeMerit, Chiumiento and Dunfield (depending on what he’s making) were exactly the right kind of signings. Then they decided to trade for foreign spots and allocation money. I’m hoping they have a plan. I’m hoping they appreciate the economics of the way they’re trying to build. It could work, obviously, but history is against them.

Sorry for the rant, but watching this for the second time feels like watching an NHL team looking at how Pittsburgh and Chicago won the Stanley Cup and deciding that they’re not going to build through the draft.

Absolutely bang on in my opinion Matthew: +1; where is the damn rep button?; what he said; qft.

[tmcmurph]

Gambian u-20 player, now on the national team, two-time Open Cup champ with Seattle, Gambian Cup champ when still a teen. And only 21 years old. Yes, he is a role player, but a key role, the wing. He is smart with the ball, he controls well, it is not just speed and flash.

At that age with that upside, you have to have the confidence you can help polish the talent. But Teitur, as we know, does not have that confidence. He has yet to show an ability to choose a player he likes and play him where he thinks he will work effectively. Stick with him and prove his instinct in signing him right. He is totally chaotic, and with all these suits in there mixing it up with him, the way the team is coming together is not too clear.

A coach as I see it, has to have an eye for players. Teitur does not, he has a neck, a loose neck, which is spinning this way and that and signing and selling and dropping and trading, and that lack of clarity shows in the way the team is being put together.

I agree with you about Nyassi but not the parts about TT. D2 in North America is chaotic at best. Last year was a tryout year so he needed to get lots of looks at players in games. That done I think he did find some gems in the form of Stewart and Khalfan. You won't find many that good or better. Coaches can develop players but that is the primary role of staff. To me a coach should be fitting the players he has into a formation that they can work not trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

So far he and others in the organization have said, that they are building from the back out. Nolly/Cannon with Rochat, Akloul, Demerrit, Knight is a nice back 4. The bench there with Janicki, Bellisomo, Forko will be where the competition for spots occur.

So the back is set now on to the mids and forwards. Chiumiento, Dunfield, Khalfan, Stewart plus more to come (ie Salgado) as they settle in on a starting 11.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Absolutely their player selection didn’t help, but the idea is behind it is still flawed IMO.

When given the choice between picking between the known and the unknown when building a franchise, I don’t know why you put all of your eggs in the ‘unknown’ basket. Especially when the unknown is more expensive (though how much more expensive is another unknown) than the known and the salary cap is so incredibly restrictive.

Your post carries on from here, so apologies in advance if I missed something. Still, I don't understand this opening argument? According to my sources, with the exception of DeMerit, Chiumiento, & Rochat there are 19 players from last year's club that are willing to play for under $50k in 2011. How is that "unknown" or "expensive?"

I have a few questions about who they kept (Thorrington) and who they discarded (Nyassi), but I have to put some faith in Soehn that the players he passed on in the $40-60k salary range are not appreciably better than those ready to step in from last year's squad.

Unlike TFC, Whitecaps are not a "franchise," they are a football club. I don't understand how anyone can advocate replacing an existing player unless the incoming player is appreciably better at a similar salary.

Somehow, I feel like you are using this same argument for dismissing the acquisition of internationnal spots. In my view, the Caps have a very solid defensive core and need some explosive offensive talent. There were no such players available, at least none who weren't extremely old.

Unlike TFC, Whitecaps have a competent scounting staff who don't defer to MLS to tell them where to look for talent and which players to sign. Thus far they have done everything that people advocated for TFC: cheap South America (Peru, check); cheap Europe (Switzerland, check); cheap Africa (Ghana, check).

In short, even if you're opening premise made sense, I wouldn't be so suspicious of the club's ability to execute this strategy. It is funny though how badly Mo Johnstone has scarred Canadian soccer fans.

[bettermirror]

Gotta side with YNWA on this one. Well done.

They'll get that striker we all know the side needs. If anyone believes the Caps' D2 attackers are sufficient in MLS and that the Caps also believe this then yer out to lunch. They'll find someone. It was mentioned Will Bruin from Indiana (gotta say, I saw him on Fox Soccer when I was in the States and he's a behemoth...with some slick skills), or that dude with the Spanish/Mexican name they brought in last year and will likely draft. They'll bring in a vet to help guide the younger forwards too.

[El Hombre]

They'll get that striker we all know the side needs. If anyone believes the Caps' D2 attackers are sufficient in MLS and that the Caps also believe this then yer out to lunch. They'll find someone. It was mentioned Will Bruin from Indiana (gotta say, I saw him on Fox Soccer when I was in the States and he's a behemoth...with some slick skills), or that dude with the Spanish/Mexican name they brought in last year and will likely draft. They'll bring in a vet to help guide the younger forwards too.

I think what Matthew's point was why bother "trying to find someone" when you have someone right there available to you who you know can compete in MLS? The assumption I believe he's working from is that very few of the Caps current roster will make the jump to MLS. If that's the case, why are you overlooking guys that have MLS experience for guys that you have yet to sign up and are essentially a crapshoot.

We'll find out more about how the Whitecaps are building their team after the presser in a few minutes, but Matthew's argument makes a lot of sense. MLS is a league that many players have a hard time adjusting to, so if you plan to stock your team with guys from other leagues then be prepared for a significant number of them not being able to compete.

[hc1]

When given the choice between picking between the known and the unknown when building a franchise, I don’t know why you put all of your eggs in the ‘unknown’ basket

I guess if you build a team based on everyone else's 12th best player you can probably be competitive "for an expansion franchise".

I think the Caps are aiming higher than that. They are confident that their scouting team is able to view players in different leagues, and be able to accurately judge how they will do in the MLS.

If it turns out that their scouts are unable to do that, then they will probably have a long, tough first season. However, the management team they have assembled appears to have a pretty good handle on things. If they are successful, they will be much better than simply competitive.

[tmcmurph]

I think what Matthew's point was why bother "trying to find someone" when you have someone right there available to you who you know can compete in MLS? The assumption I believe he's working from is that very few of the Caps current roster will make the jump to MLS. If that's the case, why are you overlooking guys that have MLS experience for guys that you have yet to sign up and are essentially a crapshoot.

We'll find out more about how the Whitecaps are building their team after the presser in a few minutes, but Matthew's argument makes a lot of sense. MLS is a league that many players have a hard time adjusting to, so if you plan to stock your team with guys from other leagues then be prepared for a significant number of them not being able to compete.

We don't want a team of journymen. They have their place but ALL of those available in the expansion draft were not considered worthy of protection by their own clubs! They will keep some vets and bring the youth along. That is the way clubs work. Not many of the res will make it but with the youth drive the Caps are on some dementedly brilliant plan to be a power for 5-10 years.

Bring in 10 internationals and as the res players come up that is the quality they will have to beat. Set the bar high and see who can make it. Those are the only ones that will make the team better.

Philippe Davies, defender Wes Knight, and goalkeeper Jay Nolly just signed. Davies is the only one of those 3 I thought would need more work.

[Michael Crampton]

The teams that kept throwing money at foreigners and trading young domestics for allocations (New York, LA in the early days) were teams that rarely succeeded.

Watching Vancouver's actions after the expansion draft I've had exactly the same reaction as you but, as a point of fact, it's worth noting that in the early days LA was the winningest team in MLS... they just couldn't win MLS Cup. I have no idea about their team building strategy in those days though.

[Michael Crampton]

We don't want a team of journymen.

You're not going to enjoy MLS.

[jpg75]

They have their place but ALL of those available in the expansion draft were not considered worthy of protection by their own clubs!

There are only so many players a club can protect, therefore there will be many useful players exposed in an MLS expansion draft.

[tmcmurph]

You're not going to enjoy MLS.

Yes I am

It is no longer a league of journeymen. Yes it still has a lot of those but you can't make the playoffs with that much less build a team that will threaten all others. You need game changers and more than 1 or 2 DPs surrounded by much weaker players.

I know there are good players that can fill rolls in the expansion draft and we are keeping some but to read some of these comments you'd think we got rid of them all without any idea who would replace them.