Buying into the Youth Movement

[powerof11]

Jeremy Loome says the time is right for TFC to take a step into the future and sign academy players Nicholas Lindsay and Doneil Henry.

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Buying_into_the_Youth_Movement_july_28_10_column.shtml

[jpg75]

Henry is a '93, that makes him 17.

http://www.zerozerofootball.com/player/doneil_henry/2009_2010/profile/139/default/144401

[Free kick]

The counter argument is: would it make sense to tie up a full roster spot and use up cap space on a couple of valuable 17 year olds with big upside only so they could sit on the bench and not play?

And, even if you put a player like Henry in the starting lineup, it would be risky to go with backline whereby of two of out of four players are under the age of 22. The back line where you usually have and require the greatest amount of experience and stability

[jpg75]

Oh wait, i didn't even cue in that Loome was talking about signing them NOW. Ok, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. First of all, as i understand the rules (atleast pre-2010) a player joining the NCAA does not remove the "homegrown" designation and a club can still sign them without the player going into the draft. NY Red Bulls let some Matt something-er-other kid leave their academy 2 years ago so he could go to college (i think he went to Maryland) and his eligibility remained with NY. Second, as FK points out we don't have room on the DEV roster unless we move some players on to the Sr. roster.

The move that makes the most sense is for the club to tell Lindsay to stick around so that they can sign him this winter. Next season Frei and Ibrahim will no longer be on GA deals so that opens up 2 DEV roster spots right there. Also, Garcia will be let go and Nana will probably take off for England as has been rumoured. Sign both kids and maybe even Matheson too if Gomez is released.

[Free kick]

First of all, as i understand the rules (atleast pre-2010) a player joining the NCAA does not remove the "homegrown" designation and a club can still sign them without the player going into the draft. NY Red Bulls let some Matt something-er-other kid leave their academy 2 years ago so he could go to college (i think he went to Maryland) and his eligibility remained with NY.

I wasn't aware that you could do that now. Hence, if you can retain their rights, it now throws the central part of JLoome's argument entirely out the window.

[Gian-Luca]

The counter argument is: would it make sense to tie up a full roster spot and use up cap space on a couple of valuable 17 year olds with big upside only so they could sit on the bench and not play?

Although it has to be said that under Preki, players don't sit on the bench for all that long without playing. He's been fairly good at using the whole squad available to him.

If TFC goes on a champions league run, I wonder if they are allowed to bring up any academy kids or do they have to be signed first?

[Macksam]

I wouldn't mind them signing them. It's time to get more progressive.

[jpg75]

I wasn't aware that you could do that now. Hence, if you can retain their rights, it now throws the central part of JLoome's argument entirely out the window.

That has always been allowed, the MLS did this to keep the NCAA happy. The rule was that a player had to be part of the academy for atleast 2 years and then could be signed to a DEV contract once he turned 20. Makes no sense right? Well that's so the players go play College for a couple of years. The only way he can be signed right away is to the Sr. roster. I'm not sure if the rule has now changed, but i don't see why it would.

edit: Even though i pointed out Henry is 17 i would still sign him for next year despite his age. I think this kid is going to be a very good defender and he's already the #3 CB in my mind and probably the 4th best defender on the team behind Nana, Cann and Gargan.

[jpg75]

If TFC goes on a champions league run, I wonder if they are allowed to bring up any academy kids or do they have to be signed first?

Since this is not MLS (and it is only MLS rules that disallow a player that isn't on the 24 man roster from playing) there's no reason they couldn't use the kids - granted they might have to be registered to play in CCL (there might be a registration process, kind of like UCL - but i don't know for sure).

[Havoc88]

Despite the rules, loome does make the point why would they go to the NCAA and toil through mediocrity when they arguably could be playing at the MLS level in the next 2 years?

I think it's sign them now so you can start using their potential, rather then let it go, they go off to some NCAA program where you have no hand in their development and potentially come back four years later not where you'd like them to be.

It's the players that are maybe on the bubble that you can say - alright we brought you to this point, you're not going to get minutes at TFC, go play in the U.S. let's see if you have the goods in 3-4 years.

[maccaliam]

That has always been allowed

I am pretty sure I have read that this is actually a new-ish rule (supposedly) done to keep players from being forced at 18 to decide between an education and a pro career.

EDIT: Someone posted this in another thread (which is where I read it).

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5219888/ce/us/future-us-soccer?cc=3888&ver=global

"I wasn't on a very competitive club team," explains Jordan Graye, who spent several years in the United academy, went on to play in college at North Carolina and is now D.C.'s starting right back after being drafted in January. "D.C. United really gave me that competitive edge to be seen by college coaches and national team coaches."

Letting young players go off to college is encouraged by MLS, which created a rule that allowed the club that had brought up a player to retain his rights after he goes to college. In essence, the club gets first dibs on a player when he is ready to turn pro. If the club demurs, the player goes into the draft. (Graye preceded this rule, which is why United had to draft him.)"

[El Hombre]

Havoc88 makes a good point. Is it better for a player's development to be with a professional team full time or in the NCAA? The roster restrictions add a small wrinkle to the whole debate, but I could see it being beneficial for them to sign the two during the winter break as someone mentioned.

[jpg75]

I am pretty sure I have read that this is actually a new-ish rule (supposedly) done to keep players from being forced at 18 to decide between an education and a pro career.

Depends what you interpret to be "newish". The rule is 3 years old and was created as part of the launch of the academy initiative to encourage the clubs to develop their own players. As your link states:

In 2007, MLS made it mandatory for its franchises to establish a youth development program with at least two teams and a full-time coaching staff. Youth players could come from anywhere within a 75-mile radius of the senior team's stadium, and each youth team could carry two additional players from outside of that zone, so long as he didn't live in another team's market. As an added incentive, MLS offered clubs the option to sign its "homegrown" products without going through the SuperDraft.

There were very few clubs that had academies prior to 2007 (DC, CHI and NY being the ones i know of) so not sure how much of an impact there was on these teams before the inception of the rule. Jozy Altidore is the only pre-2007 academy product i can think of that went through the draft and he didn't go to College.

edit: Just realized i wrote "that has always been allowed" in my response to FK, yeah that's technically not the case, it has only "always been allowed" in the formal academy agreement the league put in place in 2007. I guess i don't give as much thought to the pre-agreement academies as i should when discussing this material.

[jpg75]

Despite the rules, loome does make the point why would they go to the NCAA and toil through mediocrity when they arguably could be playing at the MLS level in the next 2 years?

I think it's sign them now so you can start using their potential, rather then let it go, they go off to some NCAA program where you have no hand in their development and potentially come back four years later not where you'd like them to be.

It's the players that are maybe on the bubble that you can say - alright we brought you to this point, you're not going to get minutes at TFC, go play in the U.S. let's see if you have the goods in 3-4 years.

They can be signed with or without having to go to the NCAA. Loome is insinuating that TFC need to make a panicked decision or risk losing these kids and that's just not the case. These kids can be signed ANYTIME. Worse case scenario Lindsay goes to college this Fall, he ends up playing the Fall semester for his college team instead of finishing the CSL season and maybe getting into some CCL games. Guess what, TFC can still sign him in January! If they think he's good enough to sign they'll sign him, if not they won't. Some might argue (I wouldn't) that he might be better off playing the full College schedule of roughly 30 games this Fall. To each his own right? Anyways, the point is that TFC hold all the cards, there's no need to make a rushed decision on Lindsay or Matheson, etc.

As for Henry, like i said the kid is 17. Unless he has fast tracked through High School he'll be going into Grade 12 in September.

edit: Ok, getting the feeling people think i am advocating against signing these kids. I am not. I want these kids to be signed, and in fact i think we should also be signing Allando Matheson. What i am arguing are the facts in this article.

[ag futbol]

Yeah, but we've got to put our foot in the pool at some time, hopefully soon. Neither Nane Joseph or Gabe Gala serve much of a purpose in my mind going forward, cutting them at the end of the season to make room for the academy prospects makes sense IMO. Having these guys on the team is where they will improve the most and who knows, there could be more interesting prospects we might want to consider behind them...

[Macksam]

They can be signed with or without having to go to the NCAA. Loome is insinuating that TFC need to make a panicked decision or risk losing these kids and that's just not the case. These kids can be signed ANYTIME. Worse case scenario Lindsay goes to college this Fall, he ends up playing the Fall semester for his college team instead of finishing the CSL season and maybe getting into some CCL games. Guess what, TFC can still sign him in January! If they think he's good enough to sign they'll sign him, if not they won't. Some might argue (I wouldn't) that he might be better off playing the full College schedule of roughly 30 games this Fall. To each his own right? Anyways, the point is that TFC hold all the cards, there's no need to make a rushed decision on Lindsay or Matheson, etc.

As for Henry, like i said the kid is 17. Unless he has fast tracked through High School he'll be going into Grade 12 in September.

edit: Ok, getting the feeling people think i am advocating against signing these kids. I am not. I want these kids to be signed, and in fact i think we should also be signing Allando Matheson. What i am arguing are the facts in this article.

Yeah, there is no need to make a rushed decision, but I think it would good to promote a few of the promising guys. See how they do in MLS. We won't know how good the academy is if we don't see how the first crop turns out.

[TFCRegina]

The counter argument is: would it make sense to tie up a full roster spot and use up cap space on a couple of valuable 17 year olds with big upside only so they could sit on the bench and not play?

And, even if you put a player like Henry in the starting lineup, it would be risky to go with backline whereby of two of out of four players are under the age of 22. The back line where you usually have and require the greatest amount of experience and stability

New rules mean that 2 academy players are 'player cap' exempt and signed below the league minimum or cap exempt at a GA contract. It's great stuff.

[jpg75]

New rules mean that 2 academy players are 'player cap' exempt and signed below the league minimum or cap exempt at a GA contract. It's great stuff.

Oh yeah, that's right! Sign 'em up now then...well, atleast 2 of them and then sign any others in the winter when the roster gets pared down.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Jeremy Loome says the time is right for TFC to take a step into the future and sign academy players Nicholas Lindsay and Doneil Henry.

Interesting snippet from the official website:-

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/07/suddenly-shorthanded

Toronto FC Academy defender Doneil Henry has travelled with the squad to Kansas City. Although he cannot play in MLS action, he has been added to the team’s roster of available players for Tuesday’s CONCACAF Champions League match in Honduras against Motagua.

[El Hombre]

Speaking of academy signings, the following have been signed in MLS in the last little while:

Chicago Fire - Victor Pineda

Colorado Rapids - Davy Armstrong

D.C. United - Conor Shanosky

FC Dallas - Ruben Luna, Victor Ulloa, Moises Fernandez

Nice to see the academy system being taken seriously in MLS.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Judging by what's on the official website it looks like a TFC Academy player is about to be added to the senior roster:

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/08/thursday-tfc-media-advisory

[jpg75]

Good news! The conference is at 2:30pm this afternoon.

[Macksam]

Nice, I wonder who it will be.

[paul-collins]

Answered elsewhere - Henry?

[tarnado1555362291]

^Yep

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/08/first-academy-player-sign-pro-contract