Mitchell will not Resign

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by dsqpr

My prediction is that barring complete capitulation in Jamaica (which I do not expect), DM will lead us into the 2009 Gold Cup. Get used to it guys!

Well, frankly it is something we are used to but it is totally shameful nonetheless. We should be going into the 2009 Gold Cup with the coach who will be in charge going into qualifying for 2014. We keep dithering around so that we have a full-time national team coach mere months before qualifying begins each time. A competent, respected coach who could lead our team through 3 Gold Cups, Olympic Qualifying (yes he should do that too) and into WC2014 would be my wish. About as likely to happen in my lifetime as the Rapture but I can still dream. [8D]

edit:

quote:Originally posted by wildguy27

Good for him. He is an incredible coach. He should not take blame for the fault of players to perform to their potential.

Alright, I'll bite. Since you insists he, "is an incredible coach" please list the competitions in which a team coached by Dale Mitchel has won or even placed in the top four.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by ted

Alright, I'll bite. Since you insists he, "is an incredible coach" please list the competitions in which a team coached by Dale Mitchel has won or even placed in the top four.

Playstation!!! that's where he did it............ next question?

[loyola]

Comon Ted. The 2001 Whitecaps finished first in the Western division and got to the 1/2.

Also, DM has won the CONCACAF group we were in at the U-20 level twice in 2002 and 2005.

I'm not saying he's an incredible coach but his record with the U-20's is unmatched. Actually, he's the only men's coach who has qualified a team for 2 consecutives World Cup. He's also the only coach who went to a 1/4 in a WC with a men's canadian team.

Of course you have 2007 and now 2008 but I just don't think his overall record is THAT bad.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

... I just don't think his overall record is THAT bad.

I don't think it's that bad either. But "not that bad" is a far cry from "incredible" and certainly not anywhere near "qualified to coach a national team."

So, please, those who like DM as a coach, fill in the rest of the results that show him to be qualified.

So far we have:

CLUB TEAMS

2001 Whitecaps finished first in the Western division

NATIONAL TEAMS

Qualified twice (2002 and 2005) as winners of CONCACAF group

Anything else he has accomplished as a coach?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by ted

I don't think it's that bad either. But "not that bad" is a far cry from "incredible" and certainly not anywhere near "qualified to coach a national team."

So, please, those who like DM as a coach, fill in the rest of the results that show him to be qualified.

So far we have:

CLUB TEAMS

2001 Whitecaps finished first in the Western division

NATIONAL TEAMS

Qualified twice (2002 and 2005) as winners of CONCACAF group

Anything else he has accomplished as a coach?

You asked a question, I answered....

BTW, I doubt you'll find many people who "like" DM as a coach. He should resign or be fired ASAP IMO but his overall record as a Canada coach is OK by our standards.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I can't think of another sport that is as "What have you done for me lately" as soccer. Particularly at the international level. I say this, because the first half of the resume is totally overshadowed by the latter half. It's not specific to Mitchell. C'est la vie for all international managers. Look at our boy Simoes. The former Ireland gaffer is another great example: amazing playing career devasted by a poor qualifying campaign.

[wildguy27]

Mitchell is the only coach in history to bring a Canadian U-20 team to three straight U-20 World Cups (ok he did not have to earn the final one being the home team but it still is a fact). The team nearly beat the eventual champion Spanish in the quarters if the 2003 U-20 World Cup. The U-20 team has also beaten Brazil in a friendly while he was coaching them, and some other strong countries they would rarely have won against. Like I said he is an incredible coach. His record speaks for itself.

Some of you people are so incredibly mean to be taking your dissapointment out on this very proven individual who is only trying his best, and cant be faulted for his teams underachieving performance.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

If that's his best I'd hate to see his worst.

And yes, he most certainly can be faulted.

[Dare431]

Speaking of success at the U20 level, does anyone know a bit about Miroslav Soukup (Czech Republic U20 coach). He did very well in 07 getting them to the finals. Apparently he's the assistant coach for the Czech U21s. I'd imagine his wage demands would be within our reach

[Obinna]

quote:Originally posted by wildguy27

Mitchell is the only coach in history to bring a Canadian U-20 team to three straight U-20 World Cups (ok he did not have to earn the final one being the home team but it still is a fact). The team nearly beat the eventual champion Spanish in the quarters if the 2003 U-20 World Cup. The U-20 team has also beaten Brazil in a friendly while he was coaching them, and some other strong countries they would rarely have won against. Like I said he is an incredible coach. His record speaks for itself.

Some of you people are so incredibly mean to be taking your dissapointment out on this very proven individual who is only trying his best, and cant be faulted for his teams underachieving performance.

I think that qualifying for three straight U-20 WC's has more to do with the fact that as a nation, we are producing more talent than ever. Look at how many U-20 players play with a professional club now a days. In 2005 we had a few players playing NCAA division 1, but givin our depth now, a NCAA division 1 player would be hard pressed to feature in a U-20 WC for us (same applies to USA).

As for his 2003 success, I think any team can go on a run in a tournament, feeding off lucky bounces and whatnot. A more realistic assesment of DM at the U-20 level would be to combine results from all three WC's. 1/3 tournments he was successful. That hardly qualifies him as an "incrediable coach".

It is all realative. Yes, he is incrediable compared to you or I, and mabye my old provincial team coach, but not compared to Simones (Jamacia), or Eriksson (Mexico). This is why people are throwing him under the bus. We need a coach of that level, at the very least. Let me ask you a question Wildguy, do you consider him as good as those two?

Also, part of the coach's job is to help motivate the players, that is an intangible that can't be meassured by any record. And let me tell you, his worried face from the sideline wouldn't motivate me. And yeah, the players are responsible, but look at our team on paper compared w/ Honduras and Jamacia. We are all equal on paper, but why have we preformed so poorly? hmmm........

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Obinna

I think that qualifying for three straight U-20 WC's has more to do with the fact that as a nation, we are producing more talent than ever. Look at how many U-20 players play with a professional club now a days. In 2005 we had a few players playing NCAA division 1, but givin our depth now, a NCAA division 1 player would be hard pressed to feature in a U-20 WC for us (same applies to USA).

As for his 2003 success, I think any team can go on a run in a tournament, feeding off lucky bounces and whatnot. A more realistic assesment of DM at the U-20 level would be to combine results from all three WC's. 1/3 tournments he was successful. That hardly qualifies him as an "incrediable coach".

It is all realative. Yes, he is incrediable compared to you or I, and mabye my old provincial team coach, but not compared to Simones (Jamacia), or Eriksson (Mexico). This is why people are throwing him under the bus. We need a coach of that level, at the very least. Let me ask you a question Wildguy, do you consider him as good as those two?

Also, part of the coach's job is to help motivate the players, that is an intangible that can't be meassured by any record. And let me tell you, his worried face from the sideline wouldn't motivate me. And yeah, the players are responsible, but look at our team on paper compared w/ Honduras and Jamacia. We are all equal on paper, but why have we preformed so poorly? hmmm........

It's funny you are talking about Sven, who was 1 goal away from being in hot water if Mexico had lost in Edmonton. He has arguably the best team in CONCACAF by a long shot, with a lot of depth and he managed to lose in Jamaica and got a tie in Canada. What make you think that he would do wonders with Canada?

In the last 3 WC attempt we have had 3 different type of manager, including the experienced Euro coach and they all failed without ever winning a game in the group stage (before we were eliminated). Of course, the players are different for every WCQ cycle and we have more talent than in 2000 but so does Honduras or most of our CONCACAF opponents.

[Obinna]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

It's funny you are talking about Sven, who was 1 goal away from being in hot water if Mexico had lost in Edmonton. He has arguably the best team in CONCACAF by a long shot, with a lot of depth and he managed to lose in Jamaica and got a tie in Canada. What make you think that he would do wonders with Canada?

He would be more benificial than Mitchell. He commands more respect because he is a high profile coach. He is probably a better coach techniclly as well. Yes, Mexico hasn't dominated this group, but they are still top of the table, and we are bottom. If Mexico and Canada switched coaches, do you think Mexico would have 10 points, and Canada 2, with one game remaining?

quote:

In the last 3 WC attempt we have had 3 different type of manager, including the experienced Euro coach and they all failed without ever winning a game in the group stage (before we were eliminated). Of course, the players are different for every WCQ cycle and we have more talent than in 2000 but so does Honduras or most of our CONCACAF opponents.

Our experienced Euro coach was not on the same level as Sven. To qualify from CONCACAF, we need a coach close to that stature. Why should we accept anything less?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Obinna

He would be more benificial than Mitchell. He commands more respect because he is a high profile coach. He is probably a better coach techniclly as well. Yes, Mexico hasn't dominated this group, but they are still top of the table, and we are bottom. If Mexico and Canada switched coaches, do you think Mexico would have 10 points, and Canada 2, with one game remaining?

Our experienced Euro coach was not on the same level as Sven. To qualify from CONCACAF, we need a coach close to that stature. Why should we accept anything less?

I'm pretty sure Mexico would still be leading the group if we switched coaches (Sven should have Mexico already qualified at this time...but that's not the case). The amount of talent Mexico has at every position is years ahead of us and it's easier for any armchair manager to deal with that.

As for Canada, I don't know if Sven would be changing anything. He hasn't prove that he understand CONCACAF well so far and will need a last day result to qualify Mexico (even if the chances of Mexico failing are next to impossible, he could be in need of a result).

Teams have qualified out of CONCACAF with bad, average and good coaches over the year. I have seen many CONCACAF teams going out early with some good coaches as well. I just think it wouldn't change much in our situation if we had a Sven here.

Mitchell has to go but I don't expect much change even if Sven is coaching us in 2012. Unless we developp more players and depth, I don't think coaching will change our fortune.

[gator]

^ I think the problem starts at the top Obbina, the CSA doesn't have the money or the knowledge in my opinion to choose a good Euro coach! I personally liked Holger, even if the players mutinied on him! No matter how good the coach is, he has a shelf life that isn't real long!

[bettermirror]

For the record, I liked Holger too. He had expectations and let them know his feelings when not met. There was no black and white with the players. His tactics were sound insofar as he won the Gold Cup, did decently in the Confederations Cup. Unfortunately the players got fed-up and silver-spooned their way out of the world cup qualifying again. IE, see what Holger has done for the current team.....please correct me if I am wrong....by bringing in JDG and Hutch.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by bettermirror

For the record, I liked Holger too. He had expectations and let them know his feelings when not met. There was no black and white with the players. His tactics were sound insofar as he won the Gold Cup, did decently in the Confederations Cup. Unfortunately the players got fed-up and silver-spooned their way out of the world cup qualifying again. IE, see what Holger has done for the current team.....please correct me if I am wrong....by bringing in JDG and Hutch.

I think you got your dates mixed up. Here's Holger tenure:

1999 GCQ

2000 GC Champions

2000 WCQ failure

2001 Confederation Cup

2002 GC (3rd place)

2003 GC (eliminated in the first round)

2003 players rebellion and Holger resigned

So he basically stayed 3 yrs after we were eliminated from the 2002 WC.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Obinna

Yes, he is incrediable compared to you or I, and mabye my old provincial team coach, but not compared to Simones (Jamacia), or Eriksson (Mexico). This is why people are throwing him under the bus. We need a coach of that level, at the very least. Let me ask you a question Wildguy, do you consider him as good as those two?

One of the problems I have with the criticism of Mitchell is some of the completely false and poorly thought out claims being made (like Starnes blaming everything on longball even though we played as much a possession game as I have ever seen from Canada). Such poorly drawn conclusions are one of the reasons that such poor decisions are made in Canada by the CSA and other soccer administrators. As I have stated many times, I think Mithcell should be fired and replaced by an experienced and successful international coach. However, it is hard to take anyone's views seriously who advocates Simoes and Eriksson as the coach after their performance this round. Both have very checkered records in the past with some successes and failures but lacking consistent success like a Hiddink. Both have been absolute failures in this round of WCQ, I would argue they have coached even worse than Mitchell. Simoes almost ruined Jamaica's WCQ by poor personnel choices and Eriksson has made a top international level team look like an average CONCACAF side. The two top coaches in our WCQ group have been Honduras' Reynaldo Rueda (someone who I think could be a legitimate candidate for us) and Theodore Whitmore (who has done wonders with Jamaica even if it may be a one off result that he can't consistently achieve).

[gator]

At least Jamaica had the sense to make a move before their campaign was completely ruined! We'll never know how Simoes would have done as our coach, it's all hypothetical, different players, different dynamics! We DO know how Mitchell has done, and I recognize it is not all his fault!

[Obinna]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

One of the problems I have with the criticism of Mitchell is some of the completely false and poorly thought out claims being made (like Starnes blaming everything on longball even though we played as much a possession game as I have ever seen from Canada). Such poorly drawn conclusions are one of the reasons that such poor decisions are made in Canada by the CSA and other soccer administrators. As I have stated many times, I think Mithcell should be fired and replaced by an experienced and successful international coach. However, it is hard to take anyone's views seriously who advocates Simoes and Eriksson as the coach after their performance this round. Both have very checkered records in the past with some successes and failures but lacking consistent success like a Hiddink. Both have been absolute failures in this round of WCQ, I would argue they have coached even worse than Mitchell. Simoes almost ruined Jamaica's WCQ by poor personnel choices and Eriksson has made a top international level team look like an average CONCACAF side. The two top coaches in our WCQ group have been Honduras' Reynaldo Rueda (someone who I think could be a legitimate candidate for us) and Theodore Whitmore (who has done wonders with Jamaica even if it may be a one off result that he can't consistently achieve).

You are so eagar to refute those calling for DM's head that you are putting words in my mouth. This is what I said:

"It is all realative. Yes, he is incrediable compared to you or I, and mabye my old provincial team coach, but not compared to Simones (Jamacia), or Eriksson (Mexico). This is why people are throwing him under the bus. We need a coach of that level, at the very least"

Tell me where I am advocating we hire Simones or Eriksson? I'm not saying we need THOSE coaches in particular. Nobody can say DM is on par with Simones or Erikkson in terms of pedigree. Look at the resume of the other coaches in our group. The only reason I never mentioned the Honduras coach is because I never knew his name, but you can throw him in the mix as well.

After DM is finished with us, we can all judge DM's true quality as a coach based on his market value--lets see what offers he gets.

I am not anti DM, but I believe our chances of qualifying are better with a better coach. Can anyone argue that? It sounds fairly logical to me. And yes Loyola, teams have qualified out of CONCACAF with average coaches, I am not saying it's mission impossible with DM at the helm. Nor am I saying that a top coach ensures our qualification. Simpily put, a better coach would only help our cause.

[Daniel]

"Mitchell will not resign"

Let me aks you this: why hasn't he been fired, then?

[wildguy27]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

"Mitchell will not resign"

Let me aks you this: why hasn't he been fired, then?

because he is a very high quality coach who has proven himself by being by far the most successful U-20 coach in Canadian soccer history, and should not be fired because of one unsuccessful quest that was more due to poor performance and poor attitude from many of the players then the coach.

[rdroze]

He hasn't been fired because he has a contract until 2010, and there's no way the CSA will pay two salaries for one job. I think they can barely afford Mitchell alone.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by wildguy27

because he is a very high quality coach who has proven himself by being by far the most successful U-20 coach in Canadian soccer history, and should not be fired because of one unsuccessful quest that was more due to poor performance and poor attitude from many of the players then the coach.

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by wildguy27

because he is a very high quality coach who has proven himself by being by far the most successful U-20 coach in Canadian soccer history, and should not be fired because of one unsuccessful quest that was more due to poor performance and poor attitude from many of the players then the coach.

His WHOLE tenure with the MNT is a failure, not just the WCQ. And that followed another total failure, so it makes up for more than a year of failure. That is just too much to accept. Fire Mitchell.

[Moldobut]

You can't take away what he's achieved in the past but this is not a club team, or the U-20's, this is the MNT and the Mens WC is the biggest event in soccer that comes once every four years. If a coach can't get the job done then he should be fair and resign. In this case he shat the bed the last U-20's at home and should've never been given this task (MNT *should've kept Hart)! And what happened in the WCQ campaign was just as poor, not forgetting the friendlies in lead up to. DM thanks for stepping up, your time is done, your services are no longer required. We can't wait another 4 years to see if he can get it right. Canada has not been at the WC since 86. Send in the next manager please.