Daniel Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 No Cup for this year, no continental berth for 2008. The "reasons" (excuses?) seem to be the same as last year (if anyone would be so kind to dig). http://www.radio-canada.ca/sports/soccer/2007/08/09/001-concacaf-jeudi.shtml Coupe des champions de la CONCACAF Le Canada exclu... encore! Journalistes : Philippe Germain et Jean-François Tremblay L'Impact de Montréal, les Whitecaps de Vancouver et le Toronto FC devront patienter une autre année avant de pouvoir prendre part à l'équivalent nord-américain de la Ligue des champions d'Europe. Des 40 pays membres, tous ont au moins une équipe invitée aux qualifications de la Coupe des champions de la CONCACAF. Tous, sauf un: le Canada. Et la situation ne changera pas en 2008, selon ce qu'a appris Radio-Canada Sports, jeudi. Le problème? Selon les dirigeants de la CONCACAF, le Canada n'a toujours pas déterminé quelle était sa première division. « Or, seuls des clubs de première division ont accès à ce tournoi », a indiqué le porte-parole de la CONCACAF, Steve Torres. L'Association canadienne de soccer (ACS) a bien tenté d'y voir à pareille date l'an dernier. Elle a toutefois dû mettre de côté son plan de Coupe nationale, faute de débouché sur la scène continentale. Des changements en 2009? Pour la prochaine édition, le contrat pour les droits de télévision de la Coupe des champions de la CONCACAF est figé dans le béton. Il est donc impossible d'ajouter une équipe aux huit déjà inscrites (deux américaines, deux mexicaines, trois d'Amérique Centrale et une des Caraïbes), sans faire augmenter le nombre total de matchs. « On s'attend à ce que les choses changent pour 2009 », a confié Richard Scott, directeur des communications à l'ACS. Une source près du dossier affirme qu'une annonce en ce sens devrait être faite avant la fin août. Est-ce que ça signifie une inclusion du Canada en 2009? Impossible de le savoir. Mais selon les informations obtenues auprès d'un dirigeant de l'ACS, le Canada pourrait éventuellement recevoir non pas un, mais bien deux laissez-passer pour les tours continentaux. À défaut d'une ligue nationale professionnelle en bonne et due forme, le projet de Coupe nationale de soccer permettrait au Canada de refaire sa crédibilité sur la scène internationale. Montréal devrait d'ailleurs profiter grandement d'un éventuel déblocage dans toute cette histoire. Les matchs de qualifications devront être disputés durant les mois d'automne et d'hiver, une idée parfaite pour un stade olympique en manque de vocation. La question sera peut-être remise à l'ordre du jour le 2 octobre, lors de la prochaine réunion de l'ACS. En attendant, le Canada restera l'un des seuls pays au monde à apprécier le soccer sans avoir sa propre ligue ou sa propre compétition de coupe nationale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonm Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 No disrespect, but is there a english version somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefoot Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 basically it says the CSA can't figure out who the top teams in canada are...because we technically don't have a premiere division. CSA are ghetooo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kennett Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 DEAR CSA, This is so simple that even "you" ought to be able to figure it out. Include the Impact, Whitecaps, and TFC, then allow 5 other teams from a specified level (USL PDL, CSL, PCSL), for example) to apply to enter the tournament on a first come, first serve basis. Have a set roster freeze window in place to prevent roster stacking for cup games, and away you go. Or, if "you" are ambitious, allow an additional 13 teams to enter for a nice 16 team, single knock out tournament, random drawn. Every team must ensure that it has sufficient funding or sponsorship in place to allow for travel and related expenses. Now, what is so difficult about this? Daniel is right. The CSA has dropped the ball. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 That's embarrassing as hell. They don't know who the top club teams in Canada are? Here's a hint, they're in the MLS and USL and can be counted on one hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Also, I think it has more to do w/ money looking at their financials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Ian Kennett DEAR CSA, This is so simple that even "you" ought to be able to figure it out. Include the Impact, Whitecaps, and TFC, then allow 5 other teams from a specified level (USL PDL, CSL, PCSL), for example) to apply to enter the tournament on a first come, first serve basis. Have a set roster freeze window in place to prevent roster stacking for cup games, and away you go. Or, if "you" are ambitious, allow an additional 13 teams to enter for a nice 16 team, single knock out tournament, random drawn. Every team must ensure that it has sufficient funding or sponsorship in place to allow for travel and related expenses. Now, what is so difficult about this? Daniel is right. The CSA has dropped the ball. Cheers! This or any other similar model. I favour doing something like gettting one team out of the amateur and semi-pro leagues, maybe by a previous playoff, and putting it in a draw vs. one of the three pro teams. So you play the two semi finals on a Friday evening and the final on a Sunday, you have a single host for the finals weekend. Pay for it by sharing gate revenue, tv rights and getting a major sponsor for the tournament and then for the CAnada Concacaf club rep. It has never been difficult, and it is a shame the CSA does not care about this, but they have never cared about things strictly related to the will to play and the joy of competing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 sometimes it feels like the canadian soccer association just doesnt give a FCK about canadian soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Hammer Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Piltdownman works for me, it's Simple It allows for entry of higher teams later into the cup race the open cup chain allows for large particpation from arround the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroArrow Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 It might be better to have the WhiteCaps and the Impact on the same side of the bracket. Have the winner face off against TFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 My first concern is that it would only take TFC two games to make the CCC. That is not nearly rigorous enough of a competition when other teams have to win a whole season. Next would be which "Provincial Champion"? I think you are speaking of BC but why should that be the BC entry while not being from any other province? Why should the CSL get two places, does Ontario not have a provincial cup? Yes we have to cherry pick to certain extent but I would suggest we try to recognize established first, second and third divisions and enter them in a knockout tournament somehow. I believe these are the recognized "divisions" in Canada: First: MLS Second: USL Div 1 Third: PDL, CSL, PCSL Are there any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 Provincial champion = Challenge Cup champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooks Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I would assume from "Provincial Champion" he means the Senior Men's Challenge Cup Champion. How about: Left Side of Bracket......................................................Right Side of Bracket PDL vs. Challenge Cup``````````````````````````````````Whitecaps vs. PCSL meets````````-------->>>>>>>Winner to CCC<<<<<<<<-----````````meets Open Can. Cup vs. TFC```````````````````````````````````Impact vs. CSL Sorry for all the slashes. It's impossible to make a bracket on a forum. We've tried numerous combinations over the years (I've had models as big as 24, 28, and 32 teams), but you've got to start somewhere. Just get it off the ground and build it from there. Sure, I'd like to give top-seeded clubs byes into the later rounds, but with eight clubs, there's no point. The Open Canada Cup winner got a place because it is the only cup that spans three provinces (that's the biggest Open Cup we have, unfortunately). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by ted My first concern is that it would only take TFC two games to make the CCC. That is not nearly rigorous enough of a competition when other teams have to win a whole season. I'll try to predict what TFC's response to that might be. And it might go like this: What value or interest would there be for TFC to travel and enguage in more fixtures during the current season against potentially some amateur team(s) with semi pro players who plays on a field with no stands and in front of family and friends. while the clubs has 2-3 million invested in players who could risk injury in such competition while the opposition would likely not face that risk becuase they have no $$$ tied up in players. And furthermore, would it not be more profitable for an MLS or USL side to play a friendly at home against some side like Aston Villa, or Millwall instead? Speaking for myself, as a ticket holder, I am not sure that I would pay to see that kind of match. If the competition was against only the two USL sides, then it might be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 With financial incentives from winning the CCF and the possibility of playing in the World Club Cup, I would imagine that Toronto would be interested. CONCACAF should take not from what UEFA did with FC Vaduz. While FC Vaduz does play in the Swiss Challenge League they are also given an invitation to the UEFA Cup as Lichtenstein's top club. While some canadian teams play in cross border competitions, they should be allowed to compete on an international stage. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 With financial incentives from winning the CCF and the possibility of playing in the World Club Cup, I would imagine that Toronto would be interested. CONCACAF should take not from what UEFA did with FC Vaduz. While FC Vaduz does play in the Swiss Challenge League they are also given an invitation to the UEFA Cup as Lichtenstein's top club. While some canadian teams play in cross border competitions, they should be allowed to compete on an international stage. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I'll try to predict what TFC's response to that might be. And it might go like this: What value or interest would there be for TFC to travel and enguage in more fixtures during the current season against potentially some amateur team(s) with semi pro players who plays on a field with no stands and in front of family and friends. while the clubs has 2-3 million invested in players who could risk injury in such competition while the opposition would likely not face that risk becuase they have no $$$ tied up in players. And furthermore, would it not be more profitable for an MLS or USL side to play a friendly at home against some side like Aston Villa, or Millwall instead? Speaking for myself, as a season ticket holder, I am not sure that I would pay extra to see that kind of match. If teh competeion was against only the two USL sides, then it might be a different story First, there's no guarantee TFC would get a home match out of this Cup scenario. Also, if this was the only way of entering the CCC (or whatever it's called), would it be worth it? Sure, you wouldn't want to turn out to watch TFC against the Fraser Valley Action or something, but would you pay to see TFC-Chivas or TFC-Saprissa or some such? It seems pretty arrogant to say I'll only pay to see teams at our level or higher. Top European sides deign to play lower clubs all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I'll try to predict what TFC's response to that might be. And it might go like this: What value or interest would there be for TFC to travel and enguage in more fixtures during the current season against potentially some amateur team(s) with semi pro players who plays on a field with no stands and in front of family and friends. while the clubs has 2-3 million invested in players who could risk injury in such competition while the opposition would likely not face that risk becuase they have no $$$ tied up in players. And furthermore, would it not be more profitable for an MLS or USL side to play a friendly at home against some side like Aston Villa, or Millwall instead? Speaking for myself, as a season ticket holder, I am not sure that I would pay extra to see that kind of match. If teh competeion was against only the two USL sides, then it might be a different story First, there's no guarantee TFC would get a home match out of this Cup scenario. Also, if this was the only way of entering the CCC (or whatever it's called), would it be worth it? Sure, you wouldn't want to turn out to watch TFC against the Fraser Valley Action or something, but would you pay to see TFC-Chivas or TFC-Saprissa or some such? It seems pretty arrogant to say I'll only pay to see teams at our level or higher. Top European sides deign to play lower clubs all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jonovision First, there's no guarantee TFC would get a home match out of this Cup scenario. Also, if this was the only way of entering the CCC (or whatever it's called), would it be worth it? Sure, you wouldn't want to turn out to watch TFC against the Fraser Valley Action or something, but would you pay to see TFC-Chivas or TFC-Saprissa or some such? It seems pretty arrogant to say I'll only pay to see teams at our level or higher. Top European sides deign to play lower clubs all the time. I think that you guys missed my point. I never said that I was against a CUP competition. Rather, I was responding to Ted's point that the format should require someone like TFC to play more fixtures than what is being proposed earlier in the thread. As far as Europe, well if it were europe then TFC, Caps and Impact would send a reserve team to play against this kind of side. and, hw does that legitimizes the competetion? And even if they did try, they would have no reserve team to send anyways. Furthermore, In europe, attendance is practically no existant in many cup competitions. Again, to be clear, I am all for this. Yes, the incentive and benefits of possible involment in Cioncafa club play is worth it IMO. But how you structure it is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jonovision First, there's no guarantee TFC would get a home match out of this Cup scenario. Also, if this was the only way of entering the CCC (or whatever it's called), would it be worth it? Sure, you wouldn't want to turn out to watch TFC against the Fraser Valley Action or something, but would you pay to see TFC-Chivas or TFC-Saprissa or some such? It seems pretty arrogant to say I'll only pay to see teams at our level or higher. Top European sides deign to play lower clubs all the time. I think that you guys missed my point. I never said that I was against a CUP competition. Rather, I was responding to Ted's point that the format should require someone like TFC to play more fixtures than what is being proposed earlier in the thread. As far as Europe, well if it were europe then TFC, Caps and Impact would send a reserve team to play against this kind of side. and, hw does that legitimizes the competetion? And even if they did try, they would have no reserve team to send anyways. Furthermore, In europe, attendance is practically no existant in many cup competitions. Again, to be clear, I am all for this. Yes, the incentive and benefits of possible involment in Cioncafa club play is worth it IMO. But how you structure it is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 TFC can send a reserve side if they wish against the semi-pro teams and their top team for USL sides. They do so at their own risk of losing. The reward is a place in the continental championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 have it all in one place. Frank clair stadium under the dome perfect pre trainings setup for the like of TFC,Montreal and Vancouver two groups of 3. Whitecaps and Montreal the CSL champion in one group and TFC the provincial champion and the canadian pdl champion in the other. after the group stage winner of group 1 plays 2nd of group 2 and 2nd of group 1 plays winner of group of group 2 for the championship game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSwede With financial incentives from winning the CCF and the possibility of playing in the World Club Cup, I would imagine that Toronto would be interested. CONCACAF should take not from what UEFA did with FC Vaduz. While FC Vaduz does play in the Swiss Challenge League they are also given an invitation to the UEFA Cup as Lichtenstein's top club. While some canadian teams play in cross border competitions, they should be allowed to compete on an international stage. Cheers Just some more info: FC Vaduz does not automatically get that UEFA cup spot, they just happen to qualify by winning the Liechtenstein Cup almost every year (some other team won in the late 90's I think). Even if they won the Super League (Div 1 in Swiss football) they would not be allowed to take the CL place (The other Swiss CL slot it given to the SwissCom Cup Winner) , or either of the Swiss UEFA Cup Spots. Vaduz isn't the only team from Liechtenstein in the swiss football leagues, there are a few teams in lower leagues. I think this is a really good comparison to the Canada-USA thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by sj Frank clair stadium under the dome And no stands??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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