Jump to content

Kevan Pipe and MLS


Luis_Rancagua

Recommended Posts

Today, I was extremely disgusted by Kevan Pipe when boasting about how MLS will be great for Canada. I would like to say to him directly to his face: what have you done for Canadian soccer in these last 16 years Mr. Pipe??? I will give you the answer Mr. Pipe: Nothing!!!!! All you have done is humiliate this country to a complete disgrace. Our national program is a joke and our domestic pro-league is none existing. Unfortunately, I can not direct these comments to the CSA on grounds that I have been black listed by the CSA for being a trouble-maker. We must make Pipe accountable for his horrendous record. He can not continue leading the CSA.

I also believe that MLS is not the answer for Canada's ailing problems. I am a strong believer that the only way how pro-soccer could succeed is by pursuing the following philosophy: Canadian domestic league, amalgamation of the provincial leagues, Open-Cup competition, women pro-league. This could be accomplished under a small budget of about half the cost of what one MLS franchise is worth ($30-million USD). Think about that before you go out of your way in supporting MLS.

Perhaps the only way how MLS could be beneficial for Canada if Canada adds about 5 franchises (Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Montreal) to the league. But how long would we have to wait until MLS considers other Canadian cities, aside from Toronto???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 109
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Soccer 'theatre of dreams'

CSA boss Pipe `ecstatic' about site

Argo owners hoping to land MLS team

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1098136210290&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064

JIM BYERS

SPORTS REPORTER

The Argos are getting most of the ink, but soccer teams will likely be the prime users of the new stadium at York University.

The stadium has long been the centrepiece of the Canadian Soccer Association's plans to host the 2007 FIFA world youth championships. But CSA chief Kevan Pipe outlined an ambitious initiative yesterday to bid on the 2010 Women's World Cup and the 2008 Olympic qualifying tournaments, and to stage a Gold Cup, the CONCACAF region championship.

The 25,000-seat stadium also will be home to the Toronto Lynx of soccer's A-League.

But that's not all.

Pipe said Argonaut co-owners Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon are leading a group that hopes to land a Major League Soccer expansion franchise, an idea endorsed by MLS commissioner Don Garber.

"I'm absolutely ecstatic," Pipe told a news conference yesterday. "This is a world-class facility and it will be the theatre of dreams for Canadian soccer for decades to come."

Pipe said he was thrilled there's no running track around the field — as had been planned for the downtown Varsity site — because it means fans will be less than seven metres from the sidelines.

"They'll be able to take in the game like never before," he said.

The CSA talked two years ago about building a soccer stadium at Exhibition Place. They then joined with the Argos at the proposed Varsity site at the University of Toronto. Now they're at York, but Pipe said the location was never a critical issue.

He also conceded there was a great deal of concern from FIFA, the governing body of world soccer, when the U of T backed out of plans to rebuild Varsity three weeks ago.

"There were some interesting discussions," Pipe said with a smile. "But they're very happy with what we've got here."

The first big soccer event at the new stadium will be the 24-country world youth championships in 2007. A year or two later, Toronto could land a Major League Soccer team.

"We've met regularly with the MLS people, including one meeting very, very recently," Pipe said.

Sokolowski and Cynamon confirmed their interest in owning a team but didn't discuss details, including how they'd pay the hefty $10 million (U.S.) expansion fee.

Garber said yesterday the league will expand from 10 cities to 12 next year and that another round of expansion is set for 2006 or 2007.

"We're very interested in pursuing expansion to Toronto," he said. "We've had preliminary talks and we hope to have more."

MLS operates in several of the biggest U.S. cities, including Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its great!!!

The Toronto team could be formed of national team players, this way they would be able to play with each other throughout the year, which will better prepare them for their games. There would be no need to make the horrible trip over from Europe either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Croat

I think its great!!!

The Toronto team could be formed of national team players, this way they would be able to play with each other throughout the year, which will better prepare them for their games. There would be no need to make the horrible trip over from Europe either.

Get real!!!! this will not solve the problem. No way on earth unless you have 5 Canadian clubs in MLS. This is a complete waste of money, and I do think that Pipe is using this ploy as a way for him to boost his horrendous reputation. I don't think that the CSA is truly analysing the situation very well. They haven't yet answer the following questions: Will MLS Toronto participate in US Open-Cup??? Can one Canadian club really solve our player development crisis???
Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Croat

I think its great!!!

The Toronto team could be formed of national team players, this way they would be able to play with each other throughout the year, which will better prepare them for their games. There would be no need to make the horrible trip over from Europe either.

I totally agree. Our top stars will still be in Europe but this club, in effect a "Canada B+" would be a very positive development.

While I know that Luis would rather see us with an all-Canadian league, the reality is that it would be of a quality little better than the current CPSL and most definitely not be the step forward that our domestic club soccer scene so badly needs.

Perhaps they'll be called the Blizzard. One can hope.

db

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now, ANY development is good for Canadian soccer. An MLS team in TO will be good.

Another CSL with stable ownership and level of play higher than CPSL will also be good.

It's just that it costs a TON of money for either an MLS franchise or a CUSL set-up,

so that if you can find investors to pony up it's great.

As for whether or not MLS should expand abroad, it appears that the owners are tired of ponying

up for all the losses and that they are looking for investors to minimize their risks. That's why they have this deal with Chivas

and possibly the TO group in the future.

But since the CSA is involved, realistically, it's not going to

happen for a while.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by SamIAm

Yeah, this would be a bad move by MLS. There are so many more US markets that they should get involved with before they start looking abroad.

I see your point, but the league needs interest from those markets. In essence, it's easy to say MLS should be in cities A, B and C, but if those cities have little or no interest then why not flirt with the cities that are showing interest, even if they are north of the 49th. Clearly there are a good half-dozen better markets (if not more) in the US than Salt Lake, yet they were the squeaky wheel, so they got the grease.

As for the "helping a rival develop" arguement, I doubt that enters into MLS's thinking. They are trying to survive as a business so they will go for the bid that makes sense (ie, they have cash and a facility). The league has already done wonders for the development of American soccer, something I doubt will curtail with the arrival of a lone Canadian side, especially as they continue to add American teams as well.

Still, I respect your belief that the league should remain American.

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guess we'll see how much money these fellows really have.

Running an MLS team is pretty cheap when you look at it. The Argonaught's probably have a bigger team budget than most MLS sides. Could be wrong. But I think it's pretty close.

Stadium looks great. It'll be an attraction in itself for the 1st couple of years. The CFL is very alive and very well, thank you, so York Park is going to be a fun place and that'll translate (in part) to other events at the grounds.

So this whole MLS Toronto scheme may get a decent chance at success after all if it can grow out of it's baby clothes. And that wouldn't be so bad.

Sounds funny coming from me, I know.

But something has got to change in this country, and like it or no I don't think Vancouver footie fans will stop going to 'Cap games or Impact supports will turn their noses up on the A-League once Toronto goes MLS. As for the rest of the country, we're either piss-poor supporting what we got, or we ain't got nuthin'. And Toronto going MLS isn't going to change that.

So there. I've converted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan

Would MLS make an exception for Canadians playing as non-imports for a team like Toronto????

I don't see how they could not make them non-import players. It's whether it will be an exception for the Toronto team specifically or for the league as a whole. I'd go with keeping the caps on foreign based players on the American teams than changing it for just Canadians. It just seems more fair to the other import players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The owners of the Argos have to deal with a lot of issues:

- How will they get the $10 Million expansion fee ?

- How will they be able to get the USSF to drop the import limit ?

- Will they even push the issue of imports ?

- Can they handle the losses of the team and the league?

- Will anybody give a damn about a TO team in MLS?

- Will the players give a damn?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have mixed views about the MLS in Toronto. I am not overly concerned about the technical aspects such as import quotas for example. Will the people come to see an MLS team? Is there enough fan interest to merit an MLS team? The Lynx could barely draw 2000 at times, and you can debate that location and scheduling had an impact on attendance. But, if there is a genuine desire by many to see pro soccer, then people change their schedules to accomodate their favorite team. Some may say that MLS is a big step in quality from the A-League, but does this step insure that Pro soccer interest will jump 11-fold to see the MLS? I have my doubts, but i would love to be proved wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there are alot of questions to be asked but it seems a good fit for the Argo owners to own an MLS side in a facility that they will effectively have control over. In this way, they can reduce some of their variable costs (joint marketing department, etc.) and lower their fix costs (servicing the stadium debt, etc.) so if the MLS is viable for anyone it would be this set up with the Argo owners in this stadium. They also would likely land some sort of TV contact in Canada for the side which would bring in additional revenue.

As for the MLS, they have made it clear they would like to get into the Canadian market and the import limit would definitely have to be dropped as it would be impossible to have a US player quota under Canadian immigration and employment law. Therefore, you can take as given that the MLS has already conceded this issue.

I would argue that doing the basic math (including the $10 million expansion fee) this will get done for Toronto in the near future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like another poster I for along time was dead against MLS in Canada .

But not that I'm converted to the MLS but more become of the belief that T-O will not support a team in a Canadian league . So go for it !

Why insist that the GTA market be in a Canadian league when it is obvious that is not where they want to be . For many reasons even at the old Varsity support for A-League has never been there .

If this MLS thingy brings out soccer fans in Toronto , then it's a good thing .

I still won't follow the MLS but who-cares what we follow "Down East " anyways . ;) I have enough foriegn leagues taking up my spare time now and even if this MLS in Toronto takes place , it'll still be a foriegn league .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say the MLS big shots have already looked at the import quota rules. And yes, MLS would have to make an exception for Toronto because I'm pretty sure Ontario's labour laws would never allow a business to exist which required the great majority of a specific type of employee be from the USA only. Not going to happen. Especially not after the Crown pumped tens of millions into the park this business will be operating out of. Excluding the money issue it's hard to imagine a CSA initiative promoting that sort of bias without drawing lots and lots of outside negative attention.

With the Mexican money coming in, and a Toronto franchise, MLS is going to have a lot of pressure to relax their player quotas. And relaxing those quotas will keep labour costs down, for good or bad.

Used to wonder if FIFA would allow a cross border tier 1 league but I'm going to guess MLS, the CSA, and other interested parties have done some scouting and think they'll be able to get the approval they need.

Too bad really. Thought Lynx attentance was on the up swing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah kinda makes you sick don't it. WCQ team crash and burn .....no Canadian league or support from the CSA for one .But Mr. Sharpe is "ecstatic" about one stadium and one potential team in one city .

Make's ya wonders if there's any point in supporting Canadian soccer 'cuz apparantly the CSA only cares 'bout soccer in one city .

So Toronto go for it ...if the CSA wanna give it ....take it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A domestic league?

Rigggggggght. Edmonton did so well this year!! And to think Calgary did even worse at the gate. In Vancouver you can't even sell out a 6 thousand-seat stadium for National team games.

The only place soccer is working the way it should is in Montreal and it's taken five years of hard work, success on the field on MONEY. But deep down-- Montreal is at the top of its game. I simply don't think they could take it to the next step- MLS and draw 20K a game and still win.

And Toronto is so far behind them, why even bother with MLS. It'll just close up shop in 3 years and move to Memphis. Let Pipe and all get Toronto an A-league franchise first, then see how it does and then go MLS.

SO until you emulate what's happened with the Impact elsewhere, the best we can hope for is what we got now. (What I'm saying is get 5 strong A-league teams- and we'll be at our national soccer zenith- in a position to take on St-Vincent on equal footing)

Cause right now---This is a PDL nation. Simply based on the disposable income of the type of people who own soccer teams here. We don't have multi-millionaire running teams. We have guys who made a few bucks running dry cleaners.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

The owners of the Argos have to deal with a lot of issues:

- How will they get the $10 Million expansion fee ?

- How will they be able to get the USSF to drop the import limit ?

- Will they even push the issue of imports ?

- Can they handle the losses of the team and the league?

- Will anybody give a damn about a TO team in MLS?

- Will the players give a damn?

I'll give it a try. ;)

- They can't pay it themselves according to all reports about their collective resources. They'd need other investors.

- Nobody knows for sure at this point, but I don't believe the USSF would be able to dictate such terms on Canadian soil. I would hope MLS would be aware of this and labour law implications, but who knows.

- The CSA seems to think so, but who knows for sure.

- That's why they'd need other investors. Any sport, team or league will lose money without bums in the seats. LA Galaxy and Columbus have shown that money can be made or losses limited to acceptable amounts with a quality facility and good product. How long they can hold out accepting losses would depend on the investor(s).

- Obviously there's a big market in the GTA, but whether or not they respond to an MLS franchise is the unknown. I'm sure there will be smatterings of support outside the immediate area, but MLS is a gate-driven league so they need the people in Toronto-area to be interested. Obviously they can count out Luis and Argh1 as supporters. :D

- The players will definately give a damn. That's 16 or so more jobs available without having to go overseas and slug it out for time with thousands of others. They would only have to compete with other Canadians for those jobs which would be a prime motivator for up and comers. Plus, many would see it as a better way to groom themselves for Europe. This would all be assuming the quota issue is worked out.

Those are all very real, very good questions though and my answers are merely just guesswork and opinion.

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luis, I'll agree with one point: That I doubt having one MLS team in Canada will do a whole lot of good over the long term. It MAY actually do harm, though with what we know--which is jacksh.it at this point--it MAY actually be a step in the right direction.

And, who says that one MLS team in Canada would be the ONLY MLS team in Canada? It may take many years, but Vancouver and Montreal could surely land MLS franchises some day. I am hopeful--I usually am--by this development. Let's pray that it works out for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have to agree with redhat's , cheeta's and andrew's philosophy about the benign, generally positive, effect of a Canadian MLS team, as long as it's not done with public money. Anybody privately investing in any soccer in Canada is generally a good thing.

As I've said, the biggest advantage will be a place for our fine NCAA players to go and play at a more competitive level, as they are generally falling between the cracks now, being too old for the most part to be euro fodder. You can "Impress the MLS"[:o)] til the cows come home in the US college scene, but as long as they have to battle the quota's disadvantage of the US teams, it mainly aint worth meadowmuffins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two quick things: I don't think we, or the CSA, or anybody else should believe that having an MLS team in Toronto will be the pancaea to cure all our soccer woes. I feel that it could be a very positive step, but nobody in our soccer community--especially the CSA--should rest on their laurels thinking they've solved our problems with one fell swoop.

Secondly, for what it is worth, I'd gladly watch a Toronto-based MLS team on TV. Not sure if a TV deal will come around, but I am certainly not the only westerner who would be interested in catching a Canadian-based MLS team play on TV. I'd rather that we had a team in Vancouver so that I could attend games, but I will stick to my a-league 'Caps until that day comes.

I know that some of you will feel alienated by placing a single MLS team in Toronto, but I know that there will be support across the country. Question is: Will there be enough support in Toronto?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Luis, I'll agree with one point: That I doubt having one MLS team in Canada will do a whole lot of good over the long term. It MAY actually do harm, though with what we know--which is jacksh.it at this point--it MAY actually be a step in the right direction.

And, who says that one MLS team in Canada would be the ONLY MLS team in Canada? It may take many years, but Vancouver and Montreal could surely land MLS franchises some day. I am hopeful--I usually am--by this development. Let's pray that it works out for us.

I think they would have no choice. As long as the CSA continues to exalt the superiority of the MLS over the A-League, the media coverage will reflect that opinion. It will be increasingly difficult for the Whitecaps to sell their product amid the perception that they are a 'minor league' team. Montreal may have an easier time only because French-speaking Quebeckers are mostly oblivious to English-Canadian media.

One A-League team will surely die if the MLS comes to Toronto. And now that the Lynx own the W-League franchise too, there is a small chance that women's team could go down the tubes with them.

I would feel much better about MLS if they and the USL were part of the same structure, with promotion and relegation between the two leagues, or if there was some sort of Canadian Open Cup to ensure that the MLS and A-League teams would get to compete against each other. Otherwise, I can't help but view this as a conscious tactical decision by Pipe et al to throw all their eggs into the MLS basket without any regard to its impact on the existing A-League teams.

Someone needs to ask Mr. Pipe what his views are on this and what the CSA's plan is for ensuring that there is co-operation between the proposed MLS team and the existing A-League teams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...