Kevan Pipe and MLS

[kelownaguy]

Doyle, 10 years ago ,, you couldn't pay me to sit down and watch a basketball game on the tube,, I didn't give a rats a$$ about the sport. After the two expansion teams came to Canada, I couldn't help but be a little interested and start following it , thought I would give it a chance.... Fast forward to the present, I now have 3 basketball jerseys (Bibby, Carter, and Nowitzki) , watch every NBA game we get televised (Craptors or whoever is playing) , don't miss an NBA draft, and follow college basketball religously. I am what you now call a basketball junkie and have other friends that went to University of Saskatchewan with me I would put in the same boat. I also remember the town of Prince Albert Saskatchewan going absolutely bananas when the Toronto Blue Jays first won the world series, theres not a whole lot of similarities between Toronto and Prince Albert (population 30,000) but cheering for the Jays was one of them, I still follow them closely today even though they suck. So please don't try to tell me that the NBA and MLB coming to Canada has no exposure effect on fans, I am living proof that it does

[kelownaguy]

Oh yeah, and you guys can also add Jeff Francis to the list of Canadians in baseball. He's only the most dominant minor league and highly touted pitcher to come along in the past decade. He was drafted two years ago and rocketed through the system to finish the season with the Rockies, unfortunately was not able to play for us in the olympics due to his call up. This kid is gonna be something else....

[argh1]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Wow, The Netherlands. That's such a great example.

Because they really need to grow the sport there. [8)]

Perhaps we should host the matches in Kelowna, Shawinigan, and Moose Jaw then.

You want me to check my facts? How 'bout this then:

FIFA, the world's soccer governing body, was putting on the heat.

"It's fair to say that they expressed a lot of concern," said Pipe. "When the project was cancelled by U of T for whatever reasons they claimed, it certainly caused some interesting discussions with our friends in Europe (FIFA).

"They're ecstatic now."

It seems that my ass has more knowledge of the situation than a lot of the people on this board.

It seems if one says anything negative about Toronto one is wrong .

Get a thicker skin . Although it may not seem right to you to hold events in Kelowna , Shawinagan or Moose Jaw or even Whitehorse what's wrong with that ?

They are in Canada after all and Canada is the host .

Not to burst your little Toronto is the best bubble but all major events shouldn't get automatically get held in the BIG SMOKE .

Get a grip I never said I didn't want a stadium in T-O ,I said the CSA was wrong in backing one there ....do you understand the difference or is the desire to have a stadium at any cost clouding your vision.

And if having a stadium in Toronto is incumbent on having the U20'S , then the CSA should let their testicles drop and say to FIFA we are the host federation we will chose where the games will be played or don't give them to us .

Will some of you from Toronto get over that opposing points of view aren't neccesarily Toronto bashing.

Other than that I give up because unless I say everything done in and for Toronto is the best and wonderfull I have regional points of view.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

It seems if one says anything negative about Toronto one is wrong .

Get a thicker skin . Although it may not seem right to you to hold events in Kelowna , Shawinagan or Moose Jaw or even Whitehorse what's wrong with that ?

They are in Canada after all and Canada is the host .

Not to burst your little Toronto is the best bubble but all major events shouldn't get automatically get held in the BIG SMOKE .

Get a grip I never said I didn't want a stadium in T-O ,I said the CSA was wrong in backing one there ....do you understand the difference or is the desire to have a stadium at any cost clouding your vision.

And if having a stadium in Toronto is incumbent on having the U20'S , then the CSA should let their testicles drop and say to FIFA we are the host federation we will chose where the games will be played or don't give them to us .

Will some of you from Toronto get over that opposing points of view aren't neccesarily Toronto bashing.

Other than that I give up because unless I say everything done in and for Toronto is the best and wonderfull I have regional points of view.

What's the difference between us supposedly claiming that any argument against Toronto is made out of hostility and bitterness towards the town, and you claiming that any defense of the city is born out of Torontonians' artificial and over-inflated perception of the place's importance?

[argh1]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

What's the difference between us supposedly claiming that any argument against Toronto is made out of hostility and bitterness towards the town, and you claiming that any defense of the city is born out of Torontonians' artificial and over-inflated perception of the place's importance?

Hahaha , okay you got me on that one : EAST is EAST , WEST is WEST and never the twain shall meet in CENTRAL

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

It seems if one says anything negative about Toronto one is wrong .

Get a thicker skin . Although it may not seem right to you to hold events in Kelowna , Shawinagan or Moose Jaw or even Whitehorse what's wrong with that ?

They are in Canada after all and Canada is the host .

Not to burst your little Toronto is the best bubble but all major events shouldn't get automatically get held in the BIG SMOKE .

Get a grip I never said I didn't want a stadium in T-O ,I said the CSA was wrong in backing one there ....do you understand the difference or is the desire to have a stadium at any cost clouding your vision.

And if having a stadium in Toronto is incumbent on having the U20'S , then the CSA should let their testicles drop and say to FIFA we are the host federation we will chose where the games will be played or don't give them to us .

Will some of you from Toronto get over that opposing points of view aren't neccesarily Toronto bashing.

Other than that I give up because unless I say everything done in and for Toronto is the best and wonderfull I have regional points of view.

JayWay pretty much covered my sentiments, but what I found weird was which post you quoted me on.

I included a quote from Pipe himself saying that FIFA was applying pressure to get the stadium deal in Toronto done, yet for whatever reason I have to get a thicker skin?

I mean, c'mon, do you really think that Canada is going to host the biggest soccer tournament in its history in Kelowna, Shawinigan and Moose Jaw? I have nothing against those places, and I agree smaller towns have the right host events, which is why Kelowna played host to the U23 qualifying match last year, and why St. John's is hosting the U17 qualifiers.

These smaller town have a great track record of supporting Canada in those types of events, but when it comes to large scale tournaments, cities such as Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, Ottawa and yes, even Toronto, should be the only ones looked at.

[Grizzly]

quote:the CSA should let their testicles drop and say to FIFA we are the host federation we will chose where the games will be played or don't give them to us .

If we take that attitude then they won't give them to us. If that is what you would prefer then I guess you must prefer the do-nothing, unambitious attitude that has characterized the CSA throughout much of its history. No Toronto stadium, no U20, that is obviously preferrable for Canadian soccer? It would be nice as host to have total control of the venues and distribute the games throughout the country but that is not how the world works. FIFA is doing us a favour by giving us the tournament not vice versa. They have every right to have some say on the host cities and very valid reasons for preferring certain cities over others. I doubt FIFA would have any interest whatsoever in having a major tournament game played in Whitehorse or Moose Jaw nor would the participating teams want to play there. I am sure FIFA would also demand that some games be played at a world class stadium located in at least one of Toronto or Montreal.

I have a really hard time seeing what you are complaining about as the CSA hasn't put any of their own money into the project and even managed to get some free FIFA funding for the planning stages. They are basically only lobbying the various groups who are putting money into the project which is a part of their mandate. If the plans for a Halifax stadium ever start looking serious they will probably put a lot of effort into lobbying for a soccer compatable stadium as well. Yes, Toronto is a larger priority and rightly so. It is far larger, an internationally renowned city and a city that could support a professional team. I lived in Halifax for four years and love the city but anyone who would claim that getting a decent soccer stadium in Halifax is as important as gettting one in Toronto is delusional. Halifax should not be ignored but at the moment the number one priority is Toronto.

[kelownaguy]

For the record, I have lived out west my whole life and I have absolutely no problems with Toronto getting this stadium, in fact I'm in full support of it. We do have a big stadium out west in Edmonton that can host big soccer matches, but not much out in the east. So really , it only makes sense to me that we have a good quality soccer facility in our most populated city. It seems like several people here are under the impression that the CSA is putting lots of money into this stadium and also the CSA is "putting all their eggs in one basket" and wanting to buy a MLS franchise,, well the fact is, the CSA is putting no money into this new stadium (gov't is contributing money cause of the 2007 WYC which is allowing us to get this stadium built) and it's the Argos owners who are looking at buying the MLS franchise, not the CSA. Obviously Canada is not a big soccer nation at the moment, I've preached this before and I'll say it once again......baby steps folks,,,baby steps...People say , how will one MLS team help ?? we need at least 5!!! Well let's go one step at a time and do things right , make sure it works,, then you add on down the road. Same for stadiums, let's concentrate on getting one soccer stadium built at a time here and if Kerfoot wants to build one in Vancouver down the road, then great, but's let worry about getting this one built in Toronto first. The CSA can only back one big project at a time, not 6....Hopefully you guys understand what I'm trying to say here,, every little piece of the puzzle added helps..

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

It's so easy, isn't it Doyle? Someone disagrees with you, pisses all over your dillusional theories - of course, they're Toronto-centric!

Try coming out from under your saftey-blanket of "western alienation" for once; maybe you'll learn something.

Your the one playing the "western alienation" card. I'm certainly not playing that card.

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

This statement alone proves you don't know what you're talking about. You lose all credibility (like you had any to begin with), with stupid statements like this. Why don't you provide more proof, other than "I read it in a book"?

Why don't you watch a game for once. Anybody with half a brain knows that Walker and Gagne are the only ones that have proven themselves in MLB. No one talks about guys like Morneau with the exception of Twins fans.

Until the rest of the Canadians can prove themselves to the baseball world season in and season out, they will remain in the shadows of Gagne and Walker.

quote:Originally posted by Grasshopper

Doyle:

I'm aware the Pocklington and Kowalchuk brought the Trappers to Edmonton; it happened after MLB expanded to Canada. I realize that I'm thinking outside of your box, but there's no way that Peter Puck brings pro baseball to Edmonton if there aren't already success stories in Toronto and Montreal.

With respect to the academies, my point was that these academies are a by-product of a more serious baseball environment that was fostered by MLB and the subsequent minor league teams in Western Canada. Whether or not they are as high level as the NBI isn't material to the argument.

And these are both examples of something positive happening due to the expansion of a major sports league into Canada.

If you truly believe that Pocklington's decision to bring baseball to Edmonton (as one example) was born of his own ingenuity and wasn't based on the fact that pro baseball was a success elsewhere in Canada, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

But don't patronise me with 'try harder' and the Toronto-centric stuff, when you can't think outside your tiny box of tightly-held beliefs.

Blair

Or perhaps Pockligton knew about the history of pro and semi-pro ball in this city. We've had teams since the 50's that play pro and semi-pro ball in the old John Ducey park. The name Eskimos has as much history in Baseball as it has in football and hockey. Clagary also had it's long share of pro and semi-pro teams before anything related to MLB arrived in the city. Winnipeg has a pro ball history back to the 50's and it still continues to this day with the latest re-incarnation of the Goldeyes.

I suppose you big box thinking is the reason why Canada has hosted so many international baseball torunaments. Your obviously think that it's only because of the Jays and Expos that cities like Edmonton, Brandon, Moncton, and Sherbrooke have hosted international tournaments.

The NBI provided a bigger atmosphere than any of the baseball academies you provide. Until the arrival of UBC's baseball program, the NBI was really the only place where you could make the pro and get an education in the meantime.

The fact that you were the only one insulted by my orginal statement shows that your the one thinking in a really small box. Please go back to the drawing board and try something intelligent other than thread hijacking.

Now, back to the main topic.

[Grasshopper]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Or perhaps Pockligton knew about the history of pro and semi-pro ball in this city. We've had teams since the 50's that play pro and semi-pro ball in the old John Ducey park. The name Eskimos has as much history in Baseball as it has in football and hockey. Clagary also had it's long share of pro and semi-pro teams before anything related to MLB arrived in the city. Winnipeg has a pro ball history back to the 50's and it still continues to this day with the latest re-incarnation of the Goldeyes.

Perhaps Pocklington did what he did based on Edmonton's baseball history pre-dating MLB and didn't factor in the major leagues in Canada, but I'm going to guess that he didn't. My guess is based on Peter Gzowski's book, 'The Game of Our Lives'. Hopefully you will find the passages entertaining.

p. 69 'He had gone into the hockey business, he admitted, because he wanted to be recognized on the streets.'

p. 71 'Pocklington is applying to take over a defunct franchise in Odgen, Utah, and move it to Edmonton. On his left sits Mel Kowalchuk, a young Edmonton advertising salesman and baseball fanatic who has brought Pocklington to the table.'

p. 74 'When he and Kowalchuk return, they see what the trouble is. The (other PCL) owners have never seen anything like him before. They are baseball men, interested in nuturing their game and running their minor-league franchises from summer to sweet summer, against the tide of the televised majors. And now this bearded Canadian has descended from the sky and thrown figures at them like a spitball pitcher in the spring - except that, unlike the spitball pitcher, he seems to care nothing for their game, and to see it only as a place to play with money.

"I guess you're interested in running your purchasing of the Ogden franchise into a big-league team, Mister Pocklington," one of them says.

Pocklington, his bearded jaw jutting towards his inquisitor, says yes.

After some more discussion, Pocklington writes a personal cheque for $5,000 as a token of good faith. ("What's the name of this league again?" he whispers to Kowalchuk) and leaves for the airport.'

Anyways, like I said earlier we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether or not the presence of professional sports franchises have added to the sporting landscape in Canada or not.

quote:

The fact that you were the only one insulted by my orginal statement shows that your the one thinking in a really small box.

Quite frankly I wasn't insulted by what you initially wrote. I thought two things:

a) You were wrong.

You were dismissive in what you said.

quote:

Please go back to the drawing board and try something intelligent other than thread hijacking.

I didn't realize that when somebody (ie. you) says something (ie. Pro Sports haven't benefitted the sporting environment of Canada and neither will MLS) against what I believe, that I'm supposed to start a new thread.

quote:

Now, back to the main topic.

Finally, I will repeat that I think if MLS comes to Canada it will be good for soccer in Canada and, if it succeeds, will eventually benefit the National Team Program.

Cheers Bro,

Blair