Match Thread: September 2, 2023 - Pacific v Valour

[jonovision]

I can safely say Pacific is not a title contender this year. A good team would have won this match 6 or 7-1.

[jonovision]

Just now, Big_M said:

dos santos loses to the pacific assistant and valour could be last by the end of the match week...could it get worse than that?

How can you be watching soccer 24/7 and actually believe this is how a coaching suspension works?

[jonovision]

OneSoccer just in full cheerleader mode for Pacific in half time and post game.

Valour players that should return in 2024: De Brienne, Gutierrez, Sanchez. Williams. Maybe Campbell and Baquero. Tough to think of an argument for anyone else. Yesli I guess.

If the rest are cut loose I'd be surprised if more than 3 or 4 would catch onto another CPL team. There simply isn't any talent here.

Edited September 2, 2023 by jonovision

[Soccerpro2]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

OneSoccer just in full cheerleader mode for Pacific in half time and post game.

Valour players that should return in 2024: De Brienne, Gutierrez, Sanchez. Williams. Maybe Campbell and Baquero. Tough to think of an argument for anyone else. Yesli I guess.

If the rest are cut loose I'd be surprised if more than 3 or 4 would catch onto another CPL team. There simply isn't any talent here.

You mean you wouldnt make Jordan Haynes your first offseason signing? 

I think PDS has to go, but I don't think it will fix anything. The problem with getting rid of a bunch of crappy players from box A is that they will be replaced with a bunch of crappy players from box B. Although I don't see how it's possible to get worse offensive players.

Hell, Halifax signed Massimo Ferrin from L1 Ontario and he has 2 goals this season. That's the same as Ponce and 2 more than the Jordanian Frank Jonke and 1 more than Anthony "moves like a 40 year old office worker" Novak. I guess we did sign CB Klaidi Cela from L1O this year and he managed to score 2 goals so far this season and he joined the team after the season already started!!

Would love to know how much each of our players are making to see if anyone is being wildly overpaid relative to their production.

Ahinga Selemani has really been lighting it up since he joined.

At least AJB's (I'm guessing) large salary will be off the books next year.

Special shoutout to young Jared Ulloa who has 1 assist this year and has shown absolutely nothing during his entire time at Valour. I haven't forgotten you!

Edited September 2, 2023 by Soccerpro2

[Cheeta]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

I can safely say Pacific is not a title contender this year. A good team would have won this match 6 or 7-1.

Never going to win the league.  Well, maybe not never but I'll be surprised.  Definitely had there ups and downs over the season but the league , I think, is past them.

The playoff tournie may be another thing, that's Cup football after all.  See how they look on a few weeks time.

[Wippersuna]

3 hours ago, jonovision said:

OneSoccer just in full cheerleader mode for Pacific in half time and post game.

Valour players that should return in 2024: De Brienne, Gutierrez, Sanchez. Williams. Maybe Campbell and Baquero. Tough to think of an argument for anyone else. Yesli I guess.

If the rest are cut loose I'd be surprised if more than 3 or 4 would catch onto another CPL team. There simply isn't any talent here.

Have to wonder if De Brienne and Gutierrez would even want to return. Hard to imagine sticking around is high in their priorities after being here before. 

[jonovision]

49 minutes ago, Wippersuna said:

Have to wonder if De Brienne and Gutierrez would even want to return. Hard to imagine sticking around is high in their priorities after being here before. 

You might be right. Gutierrez has spent enough time here that he might have put down roots. I suspect if de Brienne moves on it will be to a higher level.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

11 hours ago, jonovision said:

I can safely say Pacific is not a title contender this year. A good team would have won this match 6 or 7-1.

Think Phil Dos Santos should get some credit for the way his tactics kept the game close enough that the Valour almost got a result out of it. In my experience, people from a hockey background find it difficult to understand a park the bus counterattacking style of play when they play soccer and become very frustrated by it, but it's what you have to do sometimes when there is a mismatch in talent. Where Pacific messed up was too many unnecessary subs early in the second half that weakened rather than strengthened their team's performance. Why take off Adonijah Reid when he was playing so well, for example?

[Unnamed Trialist]

I find the Valour comments histrionic, the game was always close in the scoreboard meaning there were points to be taken in every single minute of the match.

A team 9 points out of a playoff spot after 21 games isn't doing as terribly as you're making out. In any case, you could take any CPL team and pick apart 3-4 starters for fairly important deficiencies.

[Aird25]

13 hours ago, jonovision said:

I can safely say Pacific is not a title contender this year. A good team would have won this match 6 or 7-1.

Lol we would have had the regular season wrapped ages ago with a better keeper. We’ve been playing poorly lately but it’s wild to say we’re not a contender 

[jonovision]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think Phil Dos Santos should get some credit for the way his tactics kept the game close enough that the Valour almost got a result out of it. In my experience, people from a hockey background find it difficult to understand a park the bus counterattacking style of play when they play soccer and become very frustrated by it, but it's what you have to do sometimes when there is a mismatch in talent. Where Pacific messed up was too many unnecessary subs early in the second half that weakened rather than strengthened their team's performance. Why take off Adonijah Reid when he was playing so well, for example?

Valour played much better, in terms of possession, scoreboard, and chances, in the 2nd half when they were on the front foot a bit, than in the first when they "parked the bus". (If they were indeed parking the bus, it was a "short bus".) In the first Pacific had a goal, a clear penalty missed, and 3 or 4 golden chances. I don't see how they would have been any more dangerous if Valour had tried to play football.

[jonovision]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I find the Valour comments histrionic, the game was always close in the scoreboard meaning there were points to be taken in every single minute of the match.

A team 9 points out of a playoff spot after 21 games isn't doing as terribly as you're making out. In any case, you could take any CPL team and pick apart 3-4 starters for fairly important deficiencies.

I'm sure you're referring to me here, so I'll respond

1. A team 9 points out of a playoff spot, when 63% of the league makes the playoffs, is having a terrible season. Prior to yesterday, even a 7-0 finish (41 points) would have been unlikely to guarantee a playoff berth. This is a team whose season has been over since July. But moreover, the first half yesterday was the worst played by Valour since 2019 by a country mile.

2. There is a difference between a player with obvious flaws (everyone in CPL is flawed or they wouldn't be here), and a player that lacks the attributes required to be a professional. Players like Haynes, Polisi, Cela, etc. were deemed not good enough for CPL by their previous employers, but with Valour they've been starters. If you've spent time watching Valour you know how bad the talent gulf to other teams (due to spending difference) is. If we're unlucky and Valour fold after the season, the proof would be in how few Valour players get picked up by another team in the league. Other than Yesli, Gutierrez, and de Brienne, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody else got a gig elsewhere.

You have to put yesterday's abomination of a performance, especially the initial 45 minutes, in the context of a team that has never had a positive important moment in its history. Not a single one.

Edited September 3, 2023 by jonovision

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, jonovision said:

I'm sure you're referring to me here, so I'll respond

1. A team 9 points out of a playoff spot, when 63% of the league makes the playoffs, is having a terrible season. Prior to yesterday, even a 7-0 finish (41 points) would have been unlikely to guarantee a playoff berth. This is a team whose season has been over since July. But moreover, the first half yesterday was the worst played by Valour since 2019 by a country mile.

2. There is a difference between a player with obvious flaws (everyone in CPL is flawed or they wouldn't be here), and a player that lacks the attributes required to be a professional. Players like Haynes, Polisi, Cela, etc. were deemed not good enough for CPL by their previous employers, but with Valour they've been starters. If you've spent time watching Valour you know how bad the talent gulf to other teams (due to spending difference) is. If we're unlucky and Valour fold after the season, the proof would be in how few Valour players get picked up by another team in the league. Other than Yesli, Gutierrez, and de Brienne, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody else got a gig elsewhere.

You have to put yesterday's abomination of a performance, especially the initial 45 minutes, in the context of a team that has never had a positive important moment in its history. Not a single one.

Fair enough. But if they're that bad they deserve huge credit for being close to getting a point yesterday.

[jonovision]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fair enough. But if they're that bad they deserve huge credit for being close to getting a point yesterday.

I'll give them credit for a decent second half, but the first half was an abomination and most afternoons they head into the dressing room down 3 or 4-0 instead of just the one.