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Labbe has tryout with Calgary Foothills

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10 hours ago, Vic said:

Let's just agree to disagree on the practicality of it.

What "practicality" can we possibly disagree on? She tried out for the team and earned a place on the squad. There was no practical obstacle to her playing. There was only a regulatory obstacle.

If she couldn't keep her place she would be cut. Happens EVERY ******* DAY on most teams. Players come and go based on how they play.

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We can disagree on the practicality of her being good enough to play men's pro.

If you want to think she's good enough on merit knock yourself out. I imagine there is a long list of other men's teams in leagues around the world contacting her.

 

Stephanie Labbe headed to Champions League finals after being snubbed by men’s league

By NEIL DAVIDSONThe Canadian Press
Fri., May 18, 2018

Canadian international goalkeeper Stephanie Labbe is heading to the Champions League final in Kyiv, thanks to a benefactor.

DAZN, a sports streaming service that counts Canada as one of its markets, offered Labbe a free trip to Ukraine to show its support for the goalkeeper after she was denied a chance to play for the Calgary Foothills FC men’s team in the PDL (Premier Development League)

The PDL, a feeder circuit sponsored by United Soccer Leagues, said Labbe was ineligible because it is a gender-based league.

Labbe said she initially thought it was a joke when DAZN offered her the trip for two to see the Champions League women’s final between Wolfsburg and Lyon on May 24 at the Valeriy Lobanovskiy Dynamo Stadium and the men’s final between Real Madrid and Liverpool on May 26 at the NSC Olimpiyskiy Stadium.

Now her overwhelming emotion is gratitude for a “once-in-a-lifetime” trip.“As an athlete that plays that sport it’s an opportunity for me to be inspired and it’s something that all soccer players dream of either playing in or being able to see it some day,” she said in an interview. “So for me to be able to see both the women’s and the men’s final is an absolute dream.

The 31-year-old from Stony Plain, Alta., and her partner Georgia Simmerling, a Canadian track cyclist and former national team skier, leave Tuesday.

Labbe has earned 50 caps for Canada and helped the women’s team win Olympic bronze in Rio in 2016. She had been looking for a place to play since parting ways with the National Women’s Soccer League’s Washington Spirit earlier this yea

She said while the PDL decision to bar her from playing was “a shock,” she believes things happen for a reason. Now she says she is entertaining offers from several women’s teams in Europe.

“I’m extremely grateful for the opportunities that are coming my way now and taking advantage of them fully,” she said.

Labbe says she should know her next team in the near future.

In Kyiv she will get to see Canadian teammate Kadeisha Buchanan, a star defender from Brampton who plays for Lyon.

“I’ve already sent her a message and let her know I’ll be there,” said Labbe. “It’s pretty cool to go see (the final) and watch one of teammates and friends play in it. It’ll be pretty amazing to do that and support her.”

Simmerling is on the mend after breaking both legs in a January crash at a skicross World Cup event at Nakiska, Alta.

“I couldn’t think of anyone better to share this experience with,” said Labbe. “For her going through what she’s going through now with her sport and her injuries, I think it’s an incredible opportunity for her to be inspired in her own way as well.”

Follow @NeilMDavidson on Twitter

 

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11 hours ago, Vic said:

We can disagree on the practicality of her being good enough to play men's pro.

If you want to think she's good enough on merit knock yourself out. I imagine there is a long list of other men's teams in leagues around the world contacting her.

Oh, I see, you have confused the word "practicality" with the word "reality", or "likelihood", or "probability".

I have not expressed an opinion on the likelihood that she is "good enough to play men's pro." What I am saying is that there is no reason to deny her the chance to earn and keep her place on the team.

She has already earned a spot on the roster and she should be allowed to play until someone better replaces her. You know, the same way it works for ALL players. :)

We are not disagreeing one whether she CAN play, we are disagreeing on being prejudiced, as in pre-judging that she cannot make it on the team.

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She was struggling to find somewhere to play women’s pro. That’s the clue.

If any men’s pro team was looking for a goalkeeper and some guy walked in with her skills he would be shown the door as soon as they saw him handle balls in the air.

Are you taking the piss or do you really believe she is better than any guy they could find?

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On 5/20/2018 at 1:49 AM, Vic said:

Are you taking the piss or do you really believe she is better than any guy they could find?

Neither of those things. I am totally serious and the manager decided that, "she is better than any guy they could find" when he signed her.

Why are you so afraid to let her fail? What possible harm will come to you, and to the world of soccer, if she is allowed the same chance to compete for a spot as anyone else?

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4 hours ago, ted said:

Neither of those things. I am totally serious and the manager decided that, "she is better than any guy they could find" when he signed her.

Why are you so afraid to let her fail? What possible harm will come to you, and to the world of soccer, if she is allowed the same chance to compete for a spot as anyone else?

Does he really think she is better or was it a move to try and sell tickets?

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1 hour ago, sting said:

Does he really think she is better or was it a move to try and sell tickets?

Was Ibrahimovic the best player LA Galaxy could find for the money or did they just sign him to sell tickets? Why was that allowed to go through?

Even if she was just going to be assigned to sell tickets, why shouldn't that be allowed? If she is terrible and makes the team worse then they will pay for that through their results.

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Bill Veeck traded a player for a turkey and hired a midget. Anyone can do anything they like.

Not even the "A" grade female goalkeepers like Nadine Angerer or Silke Rottenberg could displace men. And they were absolute hardcore legends - the difference between them and Labbe is fairly significant.

I have no idea what the deal is with the club and Labbe and care little beyond the chuckle. But to anyone who thinks it was on merit alone - I feel obliged to inquire about belief in Santa Claus and little green men.

Edited by Vic

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10 hours ago, Vic said:

I have no idea what the deal is with the club and Labbe and care little beyond the chuckle. But to anyone who thinks it was on merit alone - I feel obliged to inquire about belief in Santa Claus and little green men.

Then why are you so afraid to let her play and prove your point by failing miserably? If you really want to prove that women cannot play with men at this level and higher, then let them try. If, as you predict, they fail then the discussion is pointless.

What makes you and others look like women-hating misogynists is the prejudice. I accept that in this case the pre-judgement may in fact be proven correct, but fighting attempts to prove it in the real world just makes you look liked scared little boys.

There is really nothing more to debate. Either women are allowed to try and fail or your thesis remains unproven.

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On 5/20/2018 at 4:49 AM, Vic said:

She was struggling to find somewhere to play women’s pro. 

Her contract was up but her NWSL rights were blocked by her former club and she wasn't released until the other teams had pretty much found players.  She had offers to go to Europe but she didn't want to go there at the time and pursued the Foothills.  Much like MLS and NWSL doesn't allow for free player movement.

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18 minutes ago, ted said:

Then why are you so afraid to let her play and prove your point by failing miserably? If you really want to prove that women cannot play with men at this level and higher, then let them try. If, as you predict, they fail then the discussion is pointless.

What makes you and others look like women-hating misogynists is the prejudice. I accept that in this case the pre-judgement may in fact be proven correct, but fighting attempts to prove it in the real world just makes you look liked scared little boys.

There is really nothing more to debate. Either women are allowed to try and fail or your thesis remains unproven.

Seriously? He said why she is not good enough. If it was a male player would you accuse him of male bashing? So far the theory has been proven with women playing men's hockey. No one has made it a career yet. He stated why he thinks she is not strong enough etc. to play in the league.  People debate all the time why a certain guy should not be on a team and are never accused of male hating but we are women hating because we feel she can't compete at this level?

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The problem with Labbe besides not being good enough in a men's team is that she was not good enough in women's teams either.  Her latest raise to fame was only because Herdman had a thing for her.  Labbe had unsuccessful stints wherever she went.

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I believe that his point is that the general assumption by some that the club is lying and in no way she could make the team on her merits is sexist (I won't go as far personally to call it misogynist/woman hating) and I agree with that.  The team said she's good enough.  It can be based on merit and finances at the same time.  As I pointed out above there were other factors at play in her not having a club that were out of her control.  It's not as simple as "she couldn't make a woman's club team" as was stated.

Also for the record there's no way you can compare this to male players trying out for a team.  It's nowhere near the same thing and it's stupid to try to equate the two.

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Afraid to let her play?  What in God's name do you get that from. I'd LOVE to see a woman good enough to play men's pro. Probably more than all of you put together. But it's never happened and that's not the case here either. All I'm doing is correcting the opinion being spread that women are capable of playing men's professional.

It's not a thesis. There are no markers to support otherwise. The money in men's soccer is 100x that in women's. If they could play it would have been done.

I could care less what I look like. If she was an 8 year-old boy or 80 year-old man I'd be as honest. It's about goalkeeping, not gender.  You want to throw down misogynist, sexist, whatever and spin it to gender feel free. It's not about that at all though. It's a technical analysis and half a century of observation and facts.

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3 hours ago, Vic said:

All I'm doing is correcting the opinion being spread that women are capable of playing men's professional.

No you aren't. You are saying she shouldn't be allowed the chance to show IF she is capable of playing men's amateur soccer (PDL is not professional).

When does your certainty start to be a bit more fuzzy? You know for sure she can't play at the PDL level. What about L1O? What about OSL? What about whatever league is the best in PEI? What about the league I play in (spoiler alert, she is good enough). If she (and other women) aren't even given the chance, they can't find what their level is.

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I love it when people tell me what I'm saying.

If someone wants to have her tryout, put her on a roster, put her in a game, build a bronze plaque that looks nothing like her... whatever, knock yourself out.

And if you think she' good enough to play men's pro, semi-pro, whatever, or comparable to Jorge Campos, again, knock yourself out.

It's a world full of variety and different strokes for different folks. Whatever floats your boat.

To me I have a hard time even taking any of it seriously.

As I said earlier, let's just agree to disagree on the practicality of it.

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43 minutes ago, Kent said:

No you aren't. You are saying she shouldn't be allowed the chance to show IF she is capable of playing men's amateur soccer (PDL is not professional).

When does your certainty start to be a bit more fuzzy? You know for sure she can't play at the PDL level. What about L1O? What about OSL? What about whatever league is the best in PEI? What about the league I play in (spoiler alert, she is good enough). If she (and other women) aren't even given the chance, they can't find what their level is.

What are you trying to achieve?   What makes you think women haven't been given the chance to 'find their level' ?   Women have been playing soccer with boys & men for a long long time.  This was a popular question for the US women in interviews as they were taking off in popularity.   Several, like Mia Hamm, would answer with out hesitation, no.

The fear here is that the truth of this some how hurts women's soccer.  It doesn't.  Let it define itself. 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, admin said:

What are you trying to achieve?   What makes you think women haven't been given the chance to 'find their level' ?   Women have been playing soccer with boys & men for a long long time.  This was a popular question for the US women in interviews as they were taking off in popularity.   Several, like Mia Hamm, would answer with out hesitation, no.

The fear here is that the truth of this some how hurts women's soccer.  It doesn't.  Let it define itself. 

 

 

 

 

Well for one she tried out for and made a men's semi-pro team, having been judged by the manager to be at their level, and was told by the league she wasn't allowed to play not because she was not good enough but because she was a woman. 

Like, to be clear, I think if the Foothills had her in net and played against superior or even mostly equal competition it probably wouldn't go great, but I also thought Canada was going to crash out of the Olympics because she was starting in goal. 

(If your argument is just "women shouldn't be allowed to play in men's leagues just like men aren't allowed to play in women's leagues, full stop, keep them separate" fine, that's arguable, but this "women are not good enough to play with men, look some of them even say so!, so that's why they shouldn't be allowed" is not terribly convincing). 

Edited by carolynduthie

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6 hours ago, sting said:

People debate all the time why a certain guy should not be on a team and are never accused of male hating but we are women hating because we feel she can't compete at this level?

Yes, because they are two totally different things and to pretend otherwise is ********.

Not allowing her to compete for a spot is totally different than saying she cannot make it when she has NEVER been given the opportunity to compete at that level.

You can say X player may or may not make it on Y team. Banning them from trying looks like pure women-hating misogyny.

 

6 hours ago, Vic said:

Afraid to let her play?  What in God's name do you get that from. I'd LOVE to see a woman good enough to play men's pro. Probably more than all of you put together. But it's never happened and that's not the case here either. All I'm doing is correcting the opinion being spread that women are capable of playing men's professional.

It's not a thesis. There are no markers to support otherwise. The money in men's soccer is 100x that in women's. If they could play it would have been done.

Now are you are just talking in circles, making no sense.

How can there be, "markers to support otherwise" when neither she, nor any other woman, has ever been allowed to play on a PDL team? To my knowledge no woman has been allowed to compete for a spot on a pro team in North America.

And of course now you are lying, or at least have no clue how soccer works when you say you would, "LOVE to see a woman good enough to play men's pro." As anyone with a passing familiarity with the game would know, the only way to be as  good as the pros, is to play against the pros in competitive matches. That is kinda the whole point of a DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE!

Since you wish for women to succeed and you are not afraid to let them play, I expect you will stop with the objections.

 

1 hour ago, Vic said:

If someone wants to have her tryout, put her on a roster, put her in a game, build a bronze plaque that looks nothing like her... whatever, knock yourself out.

OH MY ******* GOD!!

That has literally I been what have been saying all along!

Thank you for conceding my point entirely and I look forward to NOT seeing any more of this thread.

Edited by ted
added comments

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"And of course now you are lying, or at least have no clue how soccer works"  
"As anyone with a passing familiarity with the game would know..."

The beautiful thing about the game is 1000 people can watch it and see 1000 different things. Let's just say you and I are watching different things ;)
 

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What if the League said she wasn't allowed to play because she was over 23, would that cause the same ruckus? Are teams allowed a certain # of overage players?

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9 minutes ago, BreadBoy said:

What if the League said she wasn't allowed to play because she was over 23, would that cause the same ruckus? Are teams allowed a certain # of overage players?

If there was an age restriction keeping her out of the league nobody would care and she wouldn’t have even gotten a tryout no doubt. I believe teams can have 8 over age players.

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15 hours ago, carolynduthie said:

Well for one she tried out for and made a men's semi-pro team, having been judged by the manager to be at their level, and was told by the league she wasn't allowed to play not because she was not good enough but because she was a woman. 

Like, to be clear, I think if the Foothills had her in net and played against superior or even mostly equal competition it probably wouldn't go great, but I also thought Canada was going to crash out of the Olympics because she was starting in goal. 

(If your argument is just "women shouldn't be allowed to play in men's leagues just like men aren't allowed to play in women's leagues, full stop, keep them separate" fine, that's arguable, but this "women are not good enough to play with men, look some of them even say so!, so that's why they shouldn't be allowed" is not terribly convincing). 

No, what I am saying is there are no mysteries here.   We are not entering untested waters so to speak on a competitive level. 

The people I have seen asked that question were all top flight forwards and they are almost certainly correct wrt to their position.  The opinions of the best women in the world on this issue have to carry some weight. 

Goalkeeping would be the position where the differences have the least impact in most game play (but definitely not all). 

The league could have a multitude of reasons, none of which would amount to them being sexist terrible human beings for not signing her because she is a woman. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just to be clear, this is a discussion. Not a hunt for weeding out people and branding them something they are not. 

I find it an interesting question. It is though an interesting question I suspect would make a lawyer for the league fall into seizures as soon as the prospect was presented.  

 

 

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