HfxCeltic Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, MtlMario said: I have a question. Is this Halifax city council appointed for life? If not, couldn't the next council makes changes (for the better of CPL)? They are voted in by constituents every 4 years much like federal and provincial politics. Council has recently had a small overturn and become quite a bit younger, which I'm sure was a big contributor to the 16-0 vote. I'm not really sure you'll come across a more progressive, in-tune councillor than the one that proposed the amendments. Like those said above, he likely has to toe-the-line and make some changes to satisfy some of the NIMBY groups in the city that have a pretty loud, but minority voice. I'm sure some of the restrictions will be lessened once the City see's how successful the team will be - there is ton of buzz locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 1) The amendments were all politics. Wayne Mason like most councilors like to puff out their chests and make it look like they are champions of the people. From what I see most of the amendments were pretty reasonable nothing too crazy. SEA seems willing to live with it and frankly I think city staff (who now has authority to negotiate with SEA) is willing to address any concerns SEA has in good faith. 2) SEA has always said the pop up stadium would gauge the support for soccer in Halifax and if successful the end goal would be a permanent stadium. Despite what BBTB seems to be conjuring up in his mind there is absolutely no reason to think that a permanent stadium would no be built on that site if things went well. Of course that would be at least 3 years away and considering the league hasn't even formed yet 100% wild speculation. If the team is successful after three years im sure all parties involved will weight there options and come to a decision then. Right now im sure everyone is just worried about getting things off the ground and how this will all look in the temp stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I just realized that the amendment requiring that the stands be removed is to protect the views from the Public Gardens. That's infuriating. Even from the centre of the gardens you can still see some of the hideous buildings along Spring Garden and South Park so why are they so concerned with the stands that will probably be what, two or three storeys? They could easily be clad in some sort of covering that blends into the edges of the garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycoyster Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said: I just realized that the amendment requiring that the stands be removed is to protect the views from the Public Gardens. That's infuriating. Even from the centre of the gardens you can still see some of the hideous buildings along Spring Garden and South Park so why are they so concerned with the stands that will probably be what, two or three storeys? They could easily be clad in some sort of covering that blends into the edges of the garden. I know that the state that I currently live in in the US has laws legally protecting the sight lines of state parks and historic places (I know a guy who wasn't allowed to add a second story to his house because he lived next to an old cemetery). Something like that might be in play here because Mason made it abundantly clear that SEA understood the two amendments related to the stands on Summer and Sackville, even though SEA already said they would take down the stands on those two sides. This is all before a final stadium plan is even submitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, harrycoyster said: I know that the state that I currently live in in the US has laws legally protecting the sight lines of state parks and historic places (I know a guy who wasn't allowed to add a second story to his house because he lived next to an old cemetery). Something like that might be in play here because Mason made it abundantly clear that SEA understood the two amendments related to the stands on Summer and Sackville, even though SEA already said they would take down the stands on those two sides. This is all before a final stadium plan is even submitted. That would make sense but the article from Pam Breman of CBC states "All councillors received numerous emails from nearby residents who expressed concerns about noise, parking and the look of the bleachers from the Halifax Public Gardens side of the site." I assume that if there is some regulation in place regarding sight lines that this would have been a non issue. On top of that the sight lines towards the other sides are already compromised. How knows. Martin and SEA don't seem to worried so I guess I shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 5 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said: I just realized that the amendment requiring that the stands be removed is to protect the views from the Public Gardens. That's infuriating... ...and a bit bizarre. What's the crucial difference in the stands being there for only eight rather than twelve months? Instead of assuming everything will work out OK in the end and that the NIMBYs will eventually start to act reasonably what you should be doing is contacting your councillors directly in person to ask for clarification as to why they felt a need to vote for these amendments rather than the initial proposal that SEA presented to them and make them aware that you take this issue very seriously and will keep how it is handled very much in mind the next time there is a council election. Ultimately politicians don't care about the rights and wrongs of issues like this only what will keep people voting for them and the squeaky hinge tends to get the oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HfxCeltic Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 8 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said: That would make sense but the article from Pam Breman of CBC states "All councillors received numerous emails from nearby residents who expressed concerns about noise, parking and the look of the bleachers from the Halifax Public Gardens side of the site." I assume that if there is some regulation in place regarding sight lines that this would have been a non issue. On top of that the sight lines towards the other sides are already compromised. How knows. Martin and SEA don't seem to worried so I guess I shouldn't be. It's a little frustrating when you think that 1) all of Sackville Street along the Wanderers Grounds is lined with 35-40 ft trees that would obstruct any view of the stands from Public Gardens and 2) there missing out on a wonderful opportunity for make the street side of the stands into something visually appealing and culturally relevant. Just an idea, but Halifax is home to so many artists that would be capable of putting together large scale murals that could really show off the city, its people, and all the sporting events this facility could host. A few examples: https://www.narcity.com/ca/ns/halifax/best-of-hfx/11-amazing-halifax-murals-see-eyes. I really hope they reconsider tearing down the stands for 4 months of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Welcome to politics at Halifax city hall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 So if they really end up having one end be a beer garden filled with shipping containers it basically has to be called the Trailer Park or Sunnyvale end, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On June 22, 2017 at 5:33 AM, HfxCeltic said: It's a little frustrating when you think that 1) all of Sackville Street along the Wanderers Grounds is lined with 35-40 ft trees that would obstruct any view of the stands from Public Gardens That was my first thought too — those trees look mighty tall and those stands are going to be modest. I think considering the history of stadium projects in the area and the amount of people clutching their pearls about that space actually being used for something, the conditions are fine. And they could easily change. I don't think the 14-game limit is etched in marble. They clarified with a city hall staffer to make sure that the 14 number included pre-season and playoff games. If SEA came back in two years and said they need to have it be 15 events at full stadium size because a women's friendly (or something) was coming, I am confident they would amend rather than tell them to kick rocks and not host the event. I have seen stadium fights in a lot of municipalities in my time and I thought the HRM council was quite reasonable, worked well with SEA and had fairly reasonable concerns. You should see some of the nonsense that goes on other places! cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Here is how it is being spun by one of the councillors in the local media: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-councillor-responds-to-concerns-about-pop-up-soccer-stadium-1.3471903 ...Mason says it's not even technically a stadium, rather bleachers being set up next to a field that is designed for sports... The bleachers will only be used for soccer games. No approval has been given for concerts. They will be set up on the north side of the Wanderers Grounds, away from the Public Gardens. This is what was initially proposed with an equal amount of seating on the south side where the Public Gardens are: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Here is how it is being spun by one of the councillors in the local media: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-councillor-responds-to-concerns-about-pop-up-soccer-stadium-1.3471903 ...Mason says it's not even technically a stadium, rather bleachers being set up next to a field that is designed for sports... The bleachers will only be used for soccer games. No approval has been given for concerts. They will be set up on the north side of the Wanderers Grounds, away from the Public Gardens. This is what was initially proposed with an equal amount of seating on the south side where the Public Gardens are: That's his job he is a politician. This is typical Halifax politics. How politicians spin things to their constituents so they can re-elected usually has little to do with reality. In Fairness what we do know is: 1) There will be some sort of size restriction on the South side seating. 2) The South side seating will have to be torn down and stored at the end of the soccer season as it stands now. Im sure we will hear more from SEA as to what the structure will look like once the upgrades to the field surface is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 15 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Here is how it is being spun by one of the councillors in the local media: ...Mason says it's not even technically a stadium, rather bleachers being set up next to a field that is designed for sports... That IS a stadium, technically speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 15 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said: That's his job he is a politician. This is typical Halifax politics. How politicians spin things to their constituents so they can re-elected usually has little to do with reality.... The reality of whatever eventually happens will be highly visible to the NIMBYs that are kicking up a fuss and they are being promised only one set of bleachers on the north side in that article. That's actually significantly worse than initially appeared to be the case with the amendments and may not leave enough leeway in capacity terms for SEA to have any shot at meeting the break even if budgets are geared towards 6000-8000 crowds. You should be contacting this guy Wayne Mason to ask what would even be wrong with having something that meets his perception of technically being a stadium and why he would have been opposed to having a two-sided popup installed when SEA are effectivly doing this for free given no municipal money is involved on land that isn't being used much for anything else (can remember Paul Beirne saying on a recent podcast that he could see no reason for opposition for that reason). Concern about sight lines from the Botanic Gardens is patently absurd for reasons BuzzAndSting pointed out above given the ugly 70s era looking building that is already dominating the skyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The reality of whatever eventually happens will be highly visible to the NIMBYs that are kicking up a fuss and they are being promised only one set of bleachers on the north side in that article. That's actually significantly worse than initially appeared to be the case with the amendments and may not leave enough leeway in capacity terms for SEA to have any shot at meeting the break even if budgets are geared towards 6000-8000 crowds. You should be contacting this guy Wayne Mason to ask what would even be wrong with having something that meets his perception of technically being a stadium and why he would have been opposed to having a two-sided popup installed when SEA are effectivly doing this for free given no municipal money is involved on land that isn't being used much for anything else (can remember Paul Beirne saying on a recent podcast that he could see no reason for opposition for that reason). Concern about sight lines from the Botanic Gardens is patently absurd for reasons BuzzAndSting pointed out above given the ugly 70s era looking building that is already dominating the skyline. No one was promised 'one set of bleachers'. This is something a city councilor mentioned during a random on the spot tv interview. There will be some regulation regarding the size of the south side seating. This is something that Mason and SEA representatives have already discussed. Mason is pandering to NIMBY's in his riding - this is what politicians do. At the end of the day it will be city staff and SEA that hammer out the details of the stadium and the lease. SEA has experience and understands creating a great gameday experience is key. If they were not able to secure a facility that could produce this sort of atmosphere they wouldn't waste their time, energy and money proceeding. No one locally seems to be overly concerned about Masons 'posturing' so at this point I would say there is nothing to worry about at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Latest from the Chronicle Herald: http://thechronicleherald.ca/editorials/1481175-editorial-bringing-soccer-downtown-enhances-halifax ...The stands would be removed at the end of the season. The number of events held at the site would be restricted and must be completed by 11 p.m. The site is to be cleaned up immediately following each event. Soccer Nova Scotia plans a large-scale multi-day event on the site in September, including a Canadian Soccer League game with up to 5,000 fans... definitely seems to be hinting at a domestic pro league game being played. Presumably Soccer Nova Scotia are not going to be inviting CSL teams given they are unsanctioned and something like Serbian White Eagles vs Brantford Galaxy is unlikely to ever attract 5000 people no matter where it is played, so a USL team would be the prime suspects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmacphee Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Latest from the Chronicle Herald: http://thechronicleherald.ca/editorials/1481175-editorial-bringing-soccer-downtown-enhances-halifax ...The stands would be removed at the end of the season. The number of events held at the site would be restricted and must be completed by 11 p.m. The site is to be cleaned up immediately following each event. Soccer Nova Scotia plans a large-scale multi-day event on the site in September, including a Canadian Soccer League game with up to 5,000 fans... definitely seems to be hinting at a domestic pro league game being played. Presumably Soccer Nova Scotia are not going to be inviting CSL teams given they are unsanctioned and something like Serbian White Eagles vs Brantford Galaxy is unlikely to ever attract 5000 people no matter where it is played, so a USL team would be the prime suspects? Chalk this Chronicle Herald editorial up to bad editing. (There's a reason this paper has a nickname of the "Chronically Horrible"). Unfortunately, in today's media, it's all too common for journalist to write about topics they have very little understanding of...and the lack of understanding shows in the final product. If you asked 10,000 people here in Halifax if they knew what USL was, only a handful would know. This would be a very hard sell. If I had to guess, I would think WNT or perhaps U17 mens. Dream scenario would be MNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 27 minutes ago, kmacphee said: Chalk this Chronicle Herald editorial up to bad editing. (There's a reason this paper has a nickname of the "Chronically Horrible"). Unfortunately, in today's media, it's all too common for journalist to write about topics they have very little understanding of...and the lack of understanding shows in the final product. The fact that they said "Canadian Soccer League" really shows that they're behind the curve They'll adapt. Hamilton media seems to be really pushing to organize their media ahead of the launch, and thats coming from a sports media culture here that is very CFL centric (jarringly so to be honest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HfxCeltic Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, kmacphee said: Chalk this Chronicle Herald editorial up to bad editing. (There's a reason this paper has a nickname of the "Chronically Horrible"). Unfortunately, in today's media, it's all too common for journalist to write about topics they have very little understanding of...and the lack of understanding shows in the final product. If you asked 10,000 people here in Halifax if they knew what USL was, only a handful would know. This would be a very hard sell. If I had to guess, I would think WNT or perhaps U17 mens. Dream scenario would be MNT. Unfortunately, we can't chalk this up to the shitty CH this time; they're just quoting directly from the CAO report to council back on June 20th(https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/regional-council/170620rc14113.pdf). Regardless, it's poor wording from everyone involved. I doubt very much they would except to get any sort of crowd for a random USL game, unless something similar to the NY Cosmos vs. Valencia friendly in Regina is lined up. Still crossing my fingers for a Canada v Jamaica friendly. They play Sept 2 in Toronto and Sept 5 is a designated FIFA date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 The rest of that PDF is worth a read: HRM requires a strong management position that allows the municipality to balance the needs of SEA and a professional soccer team with those of the broader community. On that basis, there is an alternative that enables the soccer franchise based on an alternative framework as outlined in Table 2. This will require detailed discussions with SEA in order to determine if the soccer team proposal is still viable. In addition, staff advise that prior to entering into any agreement with SEA that it is prudent to monitor the proposed Soccer Nova Scotia event in September to determine if there are any unforeseen or unacceptable impacts on either the site or the local community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Well, y'all can kiss that home friendly in Halifax goodbye - at the Can/US WNT announcement today, they confirmed there would be no other home friendlies scheduled for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 11 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: Well, y'all can kiss that home friendly in Halifax goodbye - at the Can/US WNT announcement today, they confirmed there would be no other home friendlies scheduled for this year. Hopefully they were only talking women lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReedOnTheGrand Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 18 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: Well, y'all can kiss that home friendly in Halifax goodbye - at the Can/US WNT announcement today, they confirmed there would be no other home friendlies scheduled for this year. Maybe a Men U20's friendly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, Rheo said: Hopefully they were only talking women lol They mentioned that there were to be 6 home friendlies this year, and #5 was the match against Jamaica. That makes this #6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 6 home friendlies for both the WNT and MNT combined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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