Article: The Future of Stalteri and Friend at 'Gladbach

[canucklefan]

Hmm.... you would get to see him play far more often in Houston than at Milwall. And that ( as I have come to realize over the past few years) is a HUGE advantage, to us fans, the coaches, the national team.... etc. because as long as they stay where they are(in Europe), the NT coaches, fans and evaluators are at a significant disadvantage in regards to information . Seriously now, take away games that he played for Canada, how often have you ever seen Stalteri play in the past 10 years? For me, its very likely less than a handful of times. Once in a CL match between WB and lyon, maybe one or two matches with WB and about the same during his stay at Spurs. Even with the tremendous increase in soccer coverage on TV, we get to see mid level clubs only sporadically. Essentially, we have no idea what these players are truly capable of, what they are not capable of or even if they are any good at all. There are no means of comparison to assess their value or potential contribution to the NT as long as we have players scattered throughout Europe.

Instead we go by this from the Canadians abroad thread : " Started......played 78 minutes" ...... "or subbed in in the 65th minutes" ...."or unused subb....." . Once every blue moon, there is some bablefish three lines translated from German or soem second hand assessment or evaluation from and overseas contributors who are not going offend Canadian fans if a players performance is poor . I'm sorry but that doesn't tell me anything about Stalteri. It doesn't tell me if he better than Haineault or even Nana. It doesn't tell me how good he is. Playing MLS will answer those questions. One of my "eye opening" experiences of the past two WCQ is that I that I noted some Euro based players failed to outshine the MLS or even USL based players and yet, to this day you still see a significant bias here towards the Euro based player that we have never seen, that's pretty stupid. It shouldn't be that way and we should not come to that realization when WCQ has started.

I can't agree with your point. Thanks to Internet, we can now watch on live streaming every Canadian playing in a European country First Division. It's as easy for you as for Mr. Hart.

[jpg75]

A better way to fix problems of team selection would be for the Nats to play more games. We assemble the "A" team for every FIFA date and get a better idea of how talented a player really is instead of relying on the league he plays in. Even schedule in a few "B" team games as well to see how the depth is working out.

The reality is that for alot of players in our player pool MLS is probably a fine level of competition, but there atleast a dozen or so who are better off staying where they are or going abroad (DeRo) to better themselves.

[Toronto MB]

I agree with the consensus opinion here.

We can all acknowledge that B2, Championship, League One, MLS, Scandinavian 1st tiers, SPL, Ligue 2, Eiredivisie, Jupiler League, etc... are all divisions from which we can expect a decent contribution from a national team player. Yes, you could argue there are differences in league quality and style; but it effectively depends on the player.

Canada has had very few players make it into the EPL, B1, La Liga, Serie A, etc... on a long term basis - and those that have, have always been outstanding players for Canada. JDG, Stalteri, Radz, McKenna, Forrest, etc...

So until we improve drastically in terms of individual player quality, these 2nd tier European leagues, in addition to the MLS, is where we will continue to find our players. And we know you can't judge them solely on their club performances, so Hart is going to need to experiment to see what works for Canada.

[RS]

how exactly does someone playing for houston do more for canada than someone playing at milwall?

ok....low CCC then.....maybe.

edit...nope just watched the TFC game on PVR....league 1 tops.

Basing an entire league on one match involving two underachieving teams is a fool's game.

[Free kick]

I can't agree with your point. Thanks to Internet, we can now watch on live streaming every Canadian playing in a European country First Division. It's as easy for you as for Mr. Hart.

Would you care to provide me the links for all those sites that show all the Canadians playing overseas.

Show me where I can go to watch Gillingham FC for example.

[canucklefan]

Would you care to provide me the links for all those sites that show all the Canadians playing overseas.

Sure, there are so many links you can access, but the most complete are www.rojadirecta.com http://atdhe.net/ and http://www.myp2p.eu/

I'm not the first to post these links so I'm not posting nothing new now. There, you can watch Bundesliga action, Dutch First Division action, you can even watch Hutchinson at Copenhagen. Also you can download software programs to watch those links (see rojadirecta).

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I'd love to see Stalteri in the MLS. He could provide some good leadership and conistency on the right side of the back four for any team, especially Vancouver, TFC or the Impact.

[Guest Ed]

Friend should stay in the Bundesliga 1 as long as possible. A super sub role at 'Gladbach is preferred to MLS, where the 90% of the his teammates could not play at the Bundesliga 1 level.

[bettermirror]

Agreed with Ed.

Stalteri should return home - either TFC, Montreal, or Whitecaps. He's done in Europe. Had a great run, but it's over.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Agreed with Ed.

Stalteri should return home - either TFC, Montreal, or Whitecaps. He's done in Europe. Had a great run, but it's over.

Yeah definitely Friend should stay with 'Gladbach, or somehwere in the Bundesliga, Maybe over to FC Koln, with Mckenna being there.

Friend and Podolski up front would look pretty sick for FC Koln.

[Macksam]

So until we improve drastically in terms of individual player quality, these 2nd tier European leagues, in addition to the MLS, is where we will continue to find our players. And we know you can't judge them solely on their club performances, so Hart is going to need to experiment to see what works for Canada.

Well, I think we are going to see a lot fewer players in the 2nd tier leagues in Europe as more young Canadians start their careers in the MLS, which imo would be for the better.

Sure, there are so many links you can access, but the most complete are www.rojadirecta.com http://atdhe.net/ and http://www.myp2p.eu/

I'm not the first to post these links so I'm not posting nothing new now. There, you can watch Bundesliga action, Dutch First Division action, you can even watch Hutchinson at Copenhagen. Also you can download software programs to watch those links (see rojadirecta).

Who has time for this though canucklefan? We watch TFC, Impact and Vancouver because they are our clubs and we support them. None of us will watch Club Brugge just to watch Kluks play.

[jpg75]

None of us will watch Club Brugge just to watch Kluks play.

Speak for yourself.

[Guest Ed]

I don't really have a strong favourite among the 3 Cdn teams; my interest is primarily the men's senior team. So why should I watch the Impact or Vancouver? There are no Cdn internationals on either side.

This is the poorest of a lot of poor arguments in this thread on why players should come BACK from Europe to the MLS.

[Macksam]

I don't really have a strong favourite among the 3 Cdn teams; my interest is primarily the men's senior team. So why should I watch the Impact or Vancouver? There are no Cdn internationals on either side.

This is the poorest of a lot of poor arguments in this thread on why players should come BACK from Europe to the MLS.

What are the other poor arguments?

[Guest Ed]

^ Where should I start?

That Cdns in Scandinavia would be better off coming to MLS. Hutchinson to a top Dutch club is the wrong move?

That 30 players in MLS rather than 30 players scattered in lower leagues would lead us to the World Cup.

If we had 30 players in top Euro leagues, instead of scattered in lower leagues (LIKE THE MLS) our chances would be better.

The only thing you've said that I agree with is that we should have more players STARTING their careers in MLS. I would add that the better ones should move on from that starting point.

[Macksam]

^ Where should I start?

That Cdns in Scandinavia would be better off coming to MLS. Hutchinson to a top Dutch club is the wrong move?

That 30 players in MLS rather than 30 players scattered in lower leagues would lead us to the World Cup.

If we had 30 players in top Euro leagues, instead of scattered in lower leagues (LIKE THE MLS) our chances would be better.

The only thing you've said that I agree with is that we should have more players STARTING their careers in MLS. I would add that the better ones should move on from that starting point.

Who said Hutch moving to PSV was the wrong move? Also, the Cdns in Scandinavia would be better off coming to the MLS. I provided reasons for that. You have provided nothing. The 30 players in MLS rather than 30 players scattered across lower leagues is also true and reasons were provided, which a lot on here agreed with. If we had 30 players in top EURO leagues, our chances would be better but we don't right now. The only way we get that is if we have more young guys starting in MLS, which we will in the future.

[Macksam]

I don't really have a strong favourite among the 3 Cdn teams; my interest is primarily the men's senior team. So why should I watch the Impact or Vancouver? There are no Cdn internationals on either side.

This is the poorest of a lot of poor arguments in this thread on why players should come BACK from Europe to the MLS.

I missed this part of the quote earlier. There might not be any right now, but there will be in the future.

[BearcatSA]

So until we improve drastically in terms of individual player quality, these 2nd tier European leagues, in addition to the MLS, is where we will continue to find our players. And we know you can't judge them solely on their club performances, so Hart is going to need to experiment to see what works for Canada.

One of Hart's mandates is to build depth and competition for spots. To that end, he has tried to do that by auditioning a number of different players he thought had the chops for the international level and that's great to see. But in the end he will still need to choose the best players available that fit the tactical schemes he has in mind. I used to think that player pool should be heavily European based, but the emergence of guys like Hainault, Jakovic, and Johnson out of MLS has changed my perspective on things. These guys came back to NA to start anew when the their European playing opportunities seemed to be stuck in neutral. It could be the springboard to a return to a higher league in Europe sooner than later, so all power to them because I want our MNT players to be playing in the highest level available.

[trueviking]

Camaraderie and jet lag are the reasons players should leave Europe for mls?! That's the best you got?

I was not really talking about players making lateral moves from Norway or wherever. You and others suggest that our best players should take huge leaps backwards in competitive levels to play in mls. That boggles my mind. Does quality of play, training, coaching and being immersed in a football environment count for nothing? Less than cameraderie? Really?

I don't even necessarily agree that players making lateral moves is a good thing. maybe sometimes as a way to rejuvenate a career, but playing at a comparable level in Europe provides exposure and training that mls doesn't offer. In my opinion if a player can play in b2, ccc, Holland or one of the bigger teams in Scandinavia, like copehagen or rosenborg then that is abetted place for them than mls. Players not seeing the pitch or lower than that, fine if it means more opportunity. Would Jackson have gotten all the attention he was getting from higher levels if he played in salt lake city? Friend worked his way up to b1. Could he have made the move there scoring for Colorado? Not likely.

I'm all for 30 canadians in mls but only if they can use it to develop. If a player is better quality he should play at the highest level that he can. Our core can't be mls calibre or all the cameraderie in the world won't help. We need young players developing at the best level they can achieve.

Like I highlited in the Atiba Hutchison to PSV thread, which you didn't bother replying to, there are numerous benefits for Canada if our players play in MLS, especially Canadian MLS teams. A few obvious ones would be camaraderie amongst the players who would have relative experiences with each other, players being comfortable with each other's playing style and no jet lag from long plane rides across the Atlantic. How the f*ck would you get that from League 1? I think a lot of people on here would agree with me that we would make the World Cup by having at least thirty guys in the MLS, unlike our situation right now which is about 30 guys in League 1 and other second rate leagues across Europe.

[trueviking]

As for the other comments. I fail to understand how my ability to watch a player on tv playing for Houston makes that player better for Canada.

I watched stalteri play every game when he was with fulham.

I was joking about watching one game and defining the quality of mls. I've seen lots of games. It is unbearable.

[canucklefan]

Who has time for this though canucklefan? We watch TFC, Impact and Vancouver because they are our clubs and we support them. None of us will watch Club Brugge just to watch Kluks play.

Why don't you mind to read the whole thread before posting ridiculous replies? This was an answer to Free Kick question...

[Grizzly]

Camaraderie and jet lag are the reasons players should leave Europe for mls?! That's the best you got?

I was not really talking about players making lateral moves from Norway or wherever. You and others suggest that our best players should take huge leaps backwards in competitive levels to play in mls. That boggles my mind. Does quality of play, training, coaching and being immersed in a football environment count for nothing? Less than cameraderie? Really?

I don't even necessarily agree that players making lateral moves is a good thing. maybe sometimes as a way to rejuvenate a career, but playing at a comparable level in Europe provides exposure and training that mls doesn't offer. In my opinion if a player can play in b2, ccc, Holland or one of the bigger teams in Scandinavia, like copehagen or rosenborg then that is abetted place for them than mls. Players not seeing the pitch or lower than that, fine if it means more opportunity. Would Jackson have gotten all the attention he was getting from higher levels if he played in salt lake city? Friend worked his way up to b1. Could he have made the move there scoring for Colorado? Not likely.

I'm all for 30 canadians in mls but only if they can use it to develop. If a player is better quality he should play at the highest level that he can. Our core can't be mls calibre or all the cameraderie in the world won't help. We need young players developing at the best level they can achieve.

I agree completely with this. I don't agree that MLS is as bad as you say but nevertheless our top players should always play at the highest level they can. MLS should mostly be for developing players and developing depth.

[Grizzly]

One of my "eye opening" experiences of the past two WCQ is that I that I noted some Euro based players failed to outshine the MLS or even USL based players and yet, to this day you still see a significant bias here towards the Euro based player that we have never seen, that's pretty stupid. It shouldn't be that way and we should not come to that realization when WCQ has started.

We have had two rounds of WCQ where the team as a whole disappointed, both the Euro and North American based players. I have a hard time thinking of any North American based player who excelled in WCQ other than Serioux who had only recently returned to NA after a stint in Europe where he became twice as good as he previously was. Arguably the biggest disappointment over both WCQ campaigns was DeRo who showed nowhere near his MLS form for the national team. We had a coach in Yallop who often chose North American players over players in Europe with more pedigree and we all know how that turned out. When I think of those players who impressed in the last WCQ they were all Euro players with the exception of the recently returned Serioux. Those players were Klukowski, Radz and at times Hume and Gerba.

The problem isn't that we have too many players in Europe, the problem is we have too many players in Europe in leagues not much better than MLS and those who are playing in stronger leagues are mostly role players not suited for the leadership/dominant player role we expect of them on the MNT. However, the solution for the problem of players playing in mediocre Euro leagues is not to have them all start playing in an equally mediocre NA league. How is that going to help their development? Plus even if the league they are playing in is not better than MLS it is still probably better in terms of career opportunities.

There is no doubt having more Canadian teams and players in MLS is going to be very positive for the MNT. We need as many players as possible in as many different developmental avenues as possible. We need as many players as possible playing at the highest level possible no matter where. It would be good for Canadian soccer to have as many Canadians as possible in MLS but that doesn't mean we should have less in Euro leagues or that players should come back. It would be beneficial for the MNT if we had 20 players playing in the Norwegian leagues instead of 4 and even better if we had that many in stronger leagues like the Bundesliga. The more players we have in these various developmental avenues and leagues the more chance we will have of developing top players and we will also have much better depth for average players as well as less gap in ability between the top and average players or the 1st and 3rd choice sub.

[Free kick]

Why don't you mind to read the whole thread before posting ridiculous replies? This was an answer to Free Kick question...

No I think he answered my question quite well. Maybe it you who should read the whole thread.

[Free kick]

You and others suggest that our best players should take huge leaps backwards in competitive levels to play in mls.

But thats just your opinion. Or more aptly put, your bias against MLS. You cannot prove that MLS is a "huge leaps backwards " from B2 or CCC. What quantifiable or visible evidence do you have to support you claims that the competeitive levels of MLS is below that of, say, CCC? Can you provide results of to head to head matches involving CCC/B2 clubs versus MLS clubs?