Fans, Unite for a cause...a Canadian League

[AlanDouglas]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman

Versus all those investors falling over themselves to put their money in surefire Canadian soccer ventures everywhere else?

That's where the CSA comes in, lending their vision and expertise to pull together a solid financial backing for our exciting new league. So sit back and relax, as I'm sure this new league wil be up and running in no time.

We should be focussing our energies on the import stuff, like team names and logos. For team names, I suggest the traditional route:

VFC

EFC

CFC

WFC

RFC

TFC

HFC

LFC

OFC

FCM

FCQC

FCH

That gives us a 12-team first division. Somebody else can figure out the second division teams, which we'll need for promotion/relegation.

For team logos, I suggest we try something new - some marketing 2.0 - and use standard webforum Smilies as logos! They're web-friendly and would create a lot of internet buzz. Somebody else can assign the logos to the teams. There's 20 to choose from.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by coppercanuck

This is a great discussion ... so at this point in history with the MLS in Canada (this was not always a thought of as a possibility as it is a USA league) a Canadian League would be a waste of time. TFC and Whitecaps would never back out of the MLS because it will be viewed as a step down. If a national Canadian League was to target the same cities as the CFL, these franchises would be better served in the MLS, as this is the only place to make money. This is crazy, no? (insert accent of choice). USL-1 is a waste of time too because they all lose money?

I don't see where you got these rather bizarre conclusions. No, MLS teams are not going to willingly "back out" of the league but that in no way means smaller markets cannot be in USL-1. I certainly don't think the USL-1 teams are a waste of time. In fact I am hoping that my local PDL team follows through with the promises made and moves to USL-1 in a couple of years.

More USL-1 teams and competition in the Voyageurs Cup against three MLS teams is a reasonable, sustainable plan for professional soccer in Canada.

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

That's where the CSA comes in, lending their vision and expertise to pull together a solid financial backing for our exciting new league. So sit back and relax, as I'm sure this new league wil be up and running in no time.

We should be focussing our energies on the import stuff, like team names and logos. For team names, I suggest the traditional route:

VFC

EFC

CFC

WFC

RFC

TFC

HFC

LFC

OFC

FCM

FCQC

FCH

That gives us a 12-team first division. Somebody else can figure out the second division teams, which we'll need for promotion/relegation.

For team logos, I suggest we try something new - some marketing 2.0 - and use standard webforum Smilies as logos! They're web-friendly and would create a lot of internet buzz. Somebody else can assign the logos to the teams. There's 20 to choose from.

Too funny!

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Too funny!

You think the absence of SFC from the first division is funny??!!

[Guest Ed]

Not to mention RDTFC (between EFC and CFC).

[DarnCherry]

While I'll admit the post was funny, also funny is Alan's continual disdain for fans who like to talk about team name's and logos.

Were just fans on discussion boards, that's what we talk about.

[coppercanuck]

Ted,

Why is it then that Eugene Melnyk sees only the MLS. You have to agree he has been an "MLS or bust" type guy. If Ottawa truly is a soccer market, like he says it is, then a USL-1 team should be off the charts. But it won't be, in my opinion. Owners with deep pockets seem to want to go big or go home. For the price of a MLS franchise he could have 2 or 3 USL-1 teams or all of the CSL.

Victoria in the USL-1? I hope so, time will tell. I wanted to see many Canadian teams in the USL-1. It all comes down to developing players of our National Team. 3 MLS teams with academies is not enough. What is the answer? PDL?

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by coppercanuck

Ted,

Why is it then that Eugene Melnyk sees only the MLS. You have to agree he has been an "MLS or bust" type guy. If Ottawa truly is a soccer market, like he says it is, then a USL-1 team should be off the charts. But it won't be, in my opinion. Owners with deep pockets seem to want to go big or go home. For the price of a MLS franchise he could have 2 or 3 USL-1 teams or all of the CSL.

Victoria in the USL-1? I hope so, time will tell. I wanted to see many Canadian teams in the USL-1. It all comes down to developing players of our National Team. 3 MLS teams with academies is not enough. What is the answer? PDL?

Unless the Whitecaps become our version of Ajax.

One can hope:D

[kyam]

A Canadian League? Common guys, I'm a Canadian Soccer fan as much as any other, but do you seriously think we can replicate the success of TFC, the Whitecaps and the Impact across Canada?

Outside the Big 3, no other city in Canada can consistently sell out 20 000 on a regular basis for soccer. Toronto can sell 20 000, but Toronto is also at least 8 times the population of any non-Big3 City!

Heck, even here in Ottawa, the largest city in Canada outside the Big 3, has a tough time selling out the Ottawa Senators when they lose... so do you really think Soccer can compete with Hockey?

I can see Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary selling out games against TFC, the Caps and hte Impact in the first season, once the novelty wears off, watch the Attendence figures drop. I also think that the attendence for TFC\Impact\Whitecaps will fall as soon as they pull out of MLS\USL-1. Also, what happens for teams that performe consistently poor?

And how large are the Immigrant communities outside the Big3? I'm from Edmonton and I'll tell ya, it ain't that diverse (even tho Edmontononians think their "diverse")

[canadianfoot]

First thing first. Once we achieve a certain level of USL-1/MLS team(whatever ratio) let's say 8 then IF the CSA finds a sponsor who knows a league might be created. Since I find it hard to believe that with 8teams we would have a V-Cup (14games) plus your regular USL/MLS season. As long as a sponsor or sponsors pay Van,MTL,TFC some cashback I don't see why not. Problem is as follows INFRASTRUCTRES, Deep Pockets, Patience from the deep pocket part.......the fans will come as Canadians start to enjoy soccer more and more. And you don't need to "depend" on immigrants for crowds that's bogus, get Local Talents and maybe a "Hirano" or two per team that will attract an extra thousand or so fans.

About sponsorship how much is the CSA(or teams) getting for "Nutrilite" Canadian Championship? What about Sportsnet? Unles they are broadcasting it pro bono?

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

Outside the Big 3, no other city in Canada can consistently sell out 20 000 on a regular basis for soccer.

Neither do any of the other American MLS teams. But that's not really the point. Those that want a Canadian league are not saying it would or should be on the level of MLS, more likely USL-1.

[canadianfoot]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Neither do any of the other American MLS teams. But that's not really the point. Those that want a Canadian league are not saying it would or should be on the level of MLS, more likely USL-1.

agreed buid 15k stadiums....sell first 6-8-10-12-15k Rome wasn't built in a day guys...a 5 or 10year plan is needed and realistically you will only start getting some of your money back after 5year maybe

[AlanDouglas]

What's driving the game in the rest of the world is TV revenue. As long as Canadian networks think that people won't tune in to watch a Canadian soccer league, then we're not going to see the big juicy TV contracts. What we need to do is decide which network should air the games and when, and then show support for those future broadcasts.

Say we decide on Sportsnet on Saturday at 8pm ET. Then we all need to get everybody we know, plus everybody that they know, plus everybody *they* know to watch Sportsnet on Saturday at 8pm ET for two hours each week, and pretend they are watching Canadian soccer.

When Sportsnet sees that there are millions of fans ready to watch broadcasts before the league has even been formed, then the big money will come. They'll also be able to use that data to sell the international rights around the world. Then when prospective owners see how much money the networks are willing to pay, we'll have teams popping up all over the place.

So who is with me?!

[Vic]

"In the fall of 1951, Maple Leafs owner Conn Smythe watched special television feeds of games in an attempt to determine whether it would be a suitable medium for broadcasting hockey games. Television already had its detractors within the NHL, especially in [Clarence] Campbell. In 1952, even though only 10% of Canadians owned a television set, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) began televising games. On November 1, 1952, Hockey Night in Canada was first broadcast on television, with Foster Hewitt calling the action between the Leafs and Bruins at Maple Leaf Gardens. The broadcasts quickly became the highest-rated show on Canadian television."

soccer/internet/2010 = hockey/television/1950

[Tintin]

I'd be willing to bet there's no one who wants a Canadian league more than I do. I wish Canadians were more confident and proud of their country. Sometimes I get frustrated by my fellow countrymen and say to myself, or whoever is in earshot, "I love Canada, but Canadians...eee"

What I'm talking about is apathy, something ingrained in the Canadian psyche. When we lose something of great value to our history and heritage, instead of putting up a fight, Canadians say "oh well...let's go cross-border shopping."

I would love a Canadian league, but it will never happen. Is soccer popular in Canada? Sure, but it's nothing compared to hockey, and we only have six teams! If we can't have more than six hockey teams in what is essentially an American league (ever since we handed control of the NHL over to the Yanks), how can we possibly have even a six-team soccer league of our own?

We have talented actors and filmmakers in Canada, but they're never "good" until they move to the US. Then people say "He's Canadian, isn't that great?!" Yes, but he was even more Canadian before he sold out and moved south. Canadians won't think a soccer team (or anything else) is good enough unless it's part of something American.

What we have now is even surprising to me. If Victoria, Hamilton (again which will not likely be able to get a hockey team) and Québec city (Nordiques RIP) could manage to get themselves into USL-1, I think that would be amazing. If those three teams joined the current three (Montréal in USL or MLS) in the Voyageurs' Cup, that would be a miracle. ...and still that's only six teams playing in a cup tournament, not in the same league. They would all stil play in American leagues.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Neither do any of the other American MLS teams. But that's not really the point. Those that want a Canadian league are not saying it would or should be on the level of MLS, more likely USL-1.

The only way a Canadian League would work, even if we consider the attendence to be USL-1 level (average USL-1), is if a domestic league is linked to a number of meaningful international tornaments.

The CCL is a great prize for the Canadian franchise on the top of the table, but something else is needed to make a Canadian league more meaningful... This prevents the rich clubs from running away with all the CCL qualifiers, and allows a "2nd best" team to play for something.

Like if the 2nd ranked Canadian franchise gets an invite to Superliga.. or better yet, a 2nd ranked Canadian team can get an invite to the US Open Cup, where the winner can challenge for an additional CCL spot owned by the US.

So hypothetically, we have 8 teams, that means, the top team gets into the CCL and the 2nd ranked team gets a 2nd chance at the CCL in the US Open Cup (if hte USSF is willing to invite us).

Either way, even if Canada wants its own domestic league outside the already established USL-1\MLS, we need some sort of 2nd or even 3rd prize or else, fan interest in smaller markets (like Edmonton, Calgary, Victoria and Hamilton) would fade really fast.

We can't have a UK style league where its always the Big 4 that goes beyond hte domestic league.

Especially in a city like Edmonton, if one team sucks, they can run to the NHL...if the other sucks, they can run to the Eskimos with only 1 million people to go around!

[jpg75]

^ It's called the US Open Cup for a reason, the USSF would never invite a foreign team.

[Vic]

Not that hockey matters much because it is a terrible analogy, but I've never met a Canadian who doesn't regret giving control of the game to the Americans, and still people can't give them our game of soccer fast enough.

There have been a lot of people here trumpeting the CFL lately, and I don't think they would agree selling out to the American leagues is a victory. Don't see the Blue Jays or Raptors doing much for our domestic programs either. Do they even have Canadians playing on them?

Regardless, in any sport, there is no substitute for teams of Canadians, from all over the country playing each other.

I'm sure our 2010 Olympic athletes would be much better served in the training center in Colorado Springs, but I don't think you'll find them there.

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

The only way a Canadian League would work, even if we consider the attendence to be USL-1 level (average USL-1), is if a domestic league is linked to a number of meaningful international tornaments.

The CCL is a great prize for the Canadian franchise on the top of the table, but something else is needed to make a Canadian league more meaningful... This prevents the rich clubs from running away with all the CCL qualifiers, and allows a "2nd best" team to play for something.

Like if the 2nd ranked Canadian franchise gets an invite to Superliga.. or better yet, a 2nd ranked Canadian team can get an invite to the US Open Cup, where the winner can challenge for an additional CCL spot owned by the US.

So hypothetically, we have 8 teams, that means, the top team gets into the CCL and the 2nd ranked team gets a 2nd chance at the CCL in the US Open Cup (if hte USSF is willing to invite us).

Either way, even if Canada wants its own domestic league outside the already established USL-1\MLS, we need some sort of 2nd or even 3rd prize or else, fan interest in smaller markets (like Edmonton, Calgary, Victoria and Hamilton) would fade really fast.

We can't have a UK style league where its always the Big 4 that goes beyond hte domestic league.

Especially in a city like Edmonton, if one team sucks, they can run to the NHL...if the other sucks, they can run to the Eskimos with only 1 million people to go around!

The USSF would never invite us, bud... it's the UNITED STATES OPEN CUP!

Hey, to legitimise the voyageurs cup, lets invite Barcelona!

[xx(]

[Cyrus]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

The USSF would never invite us, bud... it's the UNITED STATES OPEN CUP!

Hey, to legitimise the voyageurs cup, lets invite Barcelona!

[xx(]

(Whispers in my best Homer Simpson voice)

I told them it was for charity. They think they're raising money for UNICEF!

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by coppercanuck

Why is it then that Eugene Melnyk sees only the MLS. You have to agree he has been an "MLS or bust" type guy. If Ottawa truly is a soccer market, like he says it is, then a USL-1 team should be off the charts. But it won't be, in my opinion. Owners with deep pockets seem to want to go big or go home. For the price of a MLS franchise he could have 2 or 3 USL-1 teams or all of the CSL.

Where were you for the last ten years? I was saying that from before the first rumour that became TFC. That was a key part of my thinking about leagues back in 1999 (go to: A New Canadian Soccer League and Building the Dream).

Since TFC came along it has been quite clear that big money guys want more money and as little effort as possible. I still maintain that owning a whole friggin' league that covered the country could be as profitable as a single club in a "foreign" league. However we will never know and trying to stitch together a national league without big money backing is foolish.

[brettinhalifax]

quote:Originally posted by coppercanuck

Why is it then that Eugene Melnyk sees only the MLS. You have to agree he has been an "MLS or bust" type guy. If Ottawa truly is a soccer market, like he says it is, then a USL-1 team should be off the charts. But it won't be, in my opinion. Owners with deep pockets seem to want to go big or go home. For the price of a MLS franchise he could have 2 or 3 USL-1 teams or all of the CSL.

IMO the true cost of Melnyk's MLS dream was $150 million ($100 for the stadium and $50 for the franchise)

For that amount, he (alone or partnered with local governments) could have built 10 Stade Saputos and started 10 USL1 level clubs.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

The USSF would never invite us, bud... it's the UNITED STATES OPEN CUP!

Hey, to legitimise the voyageurs cup, lets invite Barcelona!

[xx(]

I'm well aware the USSF probably won't invite us, but you've missed the point. It doesn't even have to be the US Open Cup, that was the first example that came outta my head (I admit, bad example).

The point is that the only way for a domestic 1st Division to work is if we had more than just 1 prize. We need to keep in mind, the hockey is still #1 in Canada, and the CFL has had almost a century to develop into Canada's sports culture, Soccer is still relatively new in the realm of domestic professional sports.

So we need to take advantage of our advantages. I'm sure CONCACAF and FIFA would prefer that Canada had its own domestic league. We can play that to our advantage, by negotiating 2 Champion League slot if we created our own domestic 1st Division.

In such a case, the Canadian Champions would get automatic entry into the Champions League, but the 2nd and 3rd place teams would need to battle in a 2-way "playoff" series to determine Canada's 2nd entry.

This guarentees that at least 3 teams have something to play for at the end of the season other than just the Canadian Championship. Otherwise, I don't see a domestic league working.

Really what I'm proprosing is 3 possible entry points to the Champions League to make Canada's domestic league interesting enough to be followed by the masses, in more than 1 market.

Otherwise, it will always be the "big 3" (Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver) going to the Champs league, and a team from Hamilton or Victoria will be left wondering if their team is ever gonna break the mold. With 2 CCL slots, and 3 entry points, chances are greater that a small market team can pull off an upset.

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

Otherwise, it will always be the "big 3" (Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver) going to the Champs league, and a team from Hamilton or Victoria will be left wondering if their team is ever gonna break the mold. With 2 CCL slots, and 3 entry points, chances are greater that a small market team can pull off an upset.

Well one, for a team from Victoria or Hamilton to go to the champions league, there needs to be a professional team from there! People use "Big 3" so much to describe us, when it should be the "Only 3".

And 2 LDC spots, through 3 competitions? Ha!

2 from Canada, no less? hahaha.

This is concacaf, we wont get 2 slots in the next 10 years, guarantee.

The best we can hope for is 10.

[masster]

^ My guess is Windsor.