New Format For MNT

[ottawaguy2009]

You know what the problem is with Canada? I'm sorry, but we're way too damn big of a country to have a single MNT that performs consitently. How the heck are we supposed to bring players together from Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, Halifax to create a decent squad? Some players are over in Europe, some are in Asia, others are in the States. Germany has it good. France has it good. Italy has it good. Their players, if they do play outside of the country, are no more than a few hours' flight away. The playing styles of most European based clubs are the same. They're having a gay old time over there on the old continent kickin' our new world butts year in and year out.

What we need is to do what we do with curling. We'll have a provincial/club team represent us. For example, this year, the Impact went the farthest in the Concacaf Champions League - let's give them the golden ticket to represent our country. As for the international players, Limniatis can exchange them for the likes of: De Guzman, Stalteri, Radzinski, etc. as he sees fit. The core of that squad however is Canadian. Let's do that eh? Then the coach knows the team. The team knows the coach. The coach has worked with the team for several years, etc. etc. The list of positives goes on. If TFC is our country's best squad next year then they win the right to represent us. They only have 6 or so Canadian players on their squad, but at least that's a portion to work with. You've got Sutton in net, Brennan on defense or upfront, Attakora-Gyan could be put in, etc. etc. and then JC could select from our MNT roster to fill in the holes. He would be given free rein and the team would live and practice for 30 - 60 days in Toronto (or wherever), together, until they can play well as a team.

Yeah?

[Keano]

Explain Brazil, USA, Russia, and to some extent Australia: Also VAST landmasses, with population masses similarly strung along particular areas, but with competitive-to-dominant national team programs. Not too sure that's the main issue.

[canucklefan]

ottawaguy2009, you have worse ideas than the CSA.

[gator]

We used to do this with our National Junior hockey team, we never were all that competetive sending the Memorial Cup champions with a few players added! I do believe that the additional training together would help but I think at the end of the day you have to put your most skilled team together! As pointed out there are other countries with the same gegraphic challenges that do quite well!

[SouthAfricaOrBust]

wow... just wow...

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

ottawaguy2009, you have worse ideas than the CSA.

Ouch. Welcome to the board!

The reality of the game in Canada is that we are moving back to more domestic content for the national team. It's funny that Russia was brought up because their Euro squad was 100% domestic and all from the same 3-4 clubs. This would seem to support the author's suggestion. Of course Hiddink doesn't hurt either.

If we have 3 MLS sides by 2012, there's no doubting that a good 8-10 guys will be domestic. This is what the US, Mexico, Honduras, and Costa Rica all have. As these are the nations in our region that consistently get results, I think it's fair to say domestic content is very important. Jamaica, T&T and ourselves can look good on paper, but we are inconsistent at best.

One thing I'd like to see is a few more top talented guys who don't have Euro passports, trying their luck in the Mexican League instead of Europe. That's the main benefit of this CONCACAF CL success in my opinion. Perhaps a few more guys will be scouted by the bigger CONCACAF club sides.

[ottawaguy2009]

its nice arguing with english speaking soccer (football fans) for a change. not the Quebec separatists are have to debate with in other forums (in french, a second language). alright so this idea isn't popular with certain people. im not sure why. i think our curling teams do awesome at int'l competitions. randy ferby is really the only name i know, for Team Alberta aka Team Canada.

To tackle one writer's reply on how Australia and other large countries have successful MNTs, I don't think that's comparing apples to apples at all. First of all, Australia, as a country, has I would say 90 percent of its population concentrated along the coast with i would say more than half its population in the south east. Sydney FC does not have a great team, neither do many other Aussie clubs. (sorry Aussie football fans - Kewell and Cahill are two strong players, but their domestic league is minor).

Next up Russia: have a quick look at the map. You'll see that the majority of Russians live on the western fringes of that country: Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc. all within close proximity of each other and densely populated.

Canada, with 7 million people in AB/BC, 2 million in MB/SK, 12 million in ON, 8 million in QC, and 1 million in the maritimes is pretty evenly spread out when you compare it with those other countries.

Brazil, being a little smaller (5th largest country in world) is also home to 200,000,000 people! We have 30,000 in a country 4 -5 x the size! It's the same story with the US except that they have 300,000,000 living there!

Then you take the fact that our three largest cities are separated by hundreds of kilometres. The drive from Montreal to Toronto alone would cross two to three borders in Europe. Toronto to Vancouver would cross the whole continent! So there we have the demographic/geographic issues. Add in the linguistic/cultural differences: anyone live out west? how do you feel about Ontarians? I can say there isn't much love there. Ontario, the CENTRE of Canada in more than one way has its own identity. Quebec has its own, and the Maritimers have their own. It's hard to have one soccer team of 20 some guys that represent this country from coast to coast! It's impossible.

Hockey is an anomaly. There's a "greater" (in terms of TV deals only! not viewers!) appetite for it in Canada. (The soccer/football fans get the bones from CBC, TSN, and other networks).

How was men's our perfomance at Turin 2006 by the way? Not a single medal in case you needed to be reminded. Cause guess what, they take guys from all across NA, let them practice for 1 single week! then pit them against the likes of Sweden, Russia, and the Czech Republic - countries who have most of their national players playing in their domestic leagues, close to one another, and practicing regularly.

What is so wrong with having the Vancouver 'Caps represent us one year (plus and minus a few players) the Impact another year, and TFC the next? I'm not saying that this would be a permanent arrangement. But until our country's powers that be, wake up to our love of soccer/football, soccer players/fans/and the MNT will continue to be short changed. I've seen other postings here: they echo mine: for example 80 percent of minor soccer players in Quebec can't name a player on Team Canada! Seriously, when is the last time you saw a story on our MNT on TV!? Go to Europe or Asia, where every single night! they post developments on their MNTs.

I stand by my proposal. Until soccer is given the recognition it deserves in Canada, and the average Canadian actually knows what's going on with the MNT, who the players are, etc. we need to have our best club represent us. That way there is:

-consistency

-familiarity

-the chance to draw new supporters through successes (look at the masses the Impact are drawing. Don't tell me that all 55,571 people at that game were Impact fans six months ago!

With success comes recognition and given the current climate/situation, our MNT would do better to let itself be represented by a successful Canadian club.

[Keano]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Ouch. Welcome to the board!

The reality of the game in Canada is that we are moving back to more domestic content for the national team. It's funny that Russia was brought up because their Euro squad was 100% domestic and all from the same 3-4 clubs. This would seem to support the author's suggestion. Of course Hiddink doesn't hurt either.

If we have 3 MLS sides by 2012, there's no doubting that a good 8-10 guys will be domestic. This is what the US, Mexico, Honduras, and Costa Rica all have. As these are the nations in our region that consistently get results, I think it's fair to say domestic content is very important. Jamaica, T&T and ourselves can look good on paper, but we are inconsistent at best.

One thing I'd like to see is a few more top talented guys who don't have Euro passports, trying their luck in the Mexican League instead of Europe. That's the main benefit of this CONCACAF CL success in my opinion. Perhaps a few more guys will be scouted by the bigger CONCACAF club sides.

Fair enough Russia was a bad example but the other three stand.

A starting 11 composed of only TFC Caps and Impact players right now could be:

Sutton

Braz Serioux Pizzolitto Brennan

Harmse

Placentino Nash Grande DeRosario

Gbeke

With subs Brillant, Harmse, Gatti, et al not that bad, thin on natural strikers. Mayard?

[ottawaguy2009]

Oh and just to reiterate my point, having just checked the Canadasoccer.com site and seen our U-20's dismal performance - quelle suprise! (TFC academy? CSL reserve squad? instead of current format? Trois-Rivieres Attak would kick some a@s at a u20 tourny. (not sure how many players would meet the age criteria).

anyway. everyone watched at least the highlights of the santos laguna - impact game. take another team and imagine them on that field with l'Impact. be creative and exchange 3 or 4 players. toss in jimmy brennan and de rosario and serioux. picture now England on that field or Germany. I say we'd have a fighting chance.

[Guest Ed]

Curling, Trois Rivieres Attak at U20's, Quebec separatists rant. Very entertaining ottawaguy2009. Pls come back when you have a clue.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by ottawaguy2009

its nice arguing with english speaking soccer (football fans) for a change. not the Quebec separatists are have to debate with in other forums (in french, a second language). alright so this idea isn't popular with certain people. im not sure why. i think our curling teams do awesome at int'l competitions. randy ferby is really the only name i know, for Team Alberta aka Team Canada.

Good thing the majority of the world's curlers (i'm not sure the percentage) are canadian. It's just probability that the best in canada will usually be the best in the world. Unfortunately, football is a sport that other countries actually play.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Curling, Trois Rivieres Attak at U20's, Quebec separatists rant. Very entertaining ottawaguy2009. Pls come back when you have a clue.

I don't know if he meant I'm separatist but for the record, I'm NOT separatist About the curling idea, we can't compare these two sports because football demands many skills others than sweep.

[Obinna]

quote:Originally posted by ottawaguy2009

Brazil, being a little smaller (5th largest country in world) is also home to 200,000,000 people! We have 30,000 in a country 4 -5 x the size! It's the same story with the US except that they have 300,000,000 living there!

For the record Brazil have a population around 170 million, compared with our 30 million...just sayin

quote:

Add in the linguistic/cultural differences: anyone live out west? how do you feel about Ontarians? I can say there isn't much love there. Ontario, the CENTRE of Canada in more than one way has its own identity. Quebec has its own, and the Maritimers have their own. It's hard to have one soccer team of 20 some guys that represent this country from coast to coast! It's impossible.

Linguistic and cultural differences is not a problem unique to Canada, but you are on the right track. The problem is regionalism. I took a university course on Canadian regionalism and honestly, this is a deep rooted aspect of canadian identity that won't change in our lifetimes. In soccer, this regionalism is manifested in the Provincial Associations. Every province wants their piece of the soccer pie, its disgusting in a way.

quote:

What is so wrong with having the Vancouver 'Caps represent us one year (plus and minus a few players) the Impact another year, and TFC the next? I'm not saying that this would be a permanent arrangement.

You are right when you say building familiarity is important, but come on man, you know that's only a temporary solution. As someone else highlighted, Russia have a domestic squad with players all from 3-4 clubs. This is what we need to aim for IMO.

[dpetzz]

ottawaguy for CSA president......lol...at least that way the government would be forced to shut it down

[ottawaguy2009]

dpettz i take back the Italo-Canadian bit. I didn't mean it in an offensive way. I am well aware that they just hired an Italian for the coach of the WNT.

this is what I meant though by the CSA being a group of Italian-Canadian buddies:

http://www.canadasoccer.com/directory/board.asp

I would have said the same if they were Croatian or Pakistani. I think the board of the CSA should reflect Canada's diversity: we need some Africans, some people from the Carribean, maybe a Latino or two. The current way isn't working: what do we do?

[ag futbol]

Who cares if they are a rainbow colored or one shade of purple? We need to start painting things in terms of qualifications instead of nationalities.

Needless to say, when our prep games to play in warm weather concacaf look like this ... the brain trust is coming up empty:

Anyway, back to topic. Geographic diversity is a huge red herring in this case because (let's face it) our national team operates on a part-time basis and a small budget. How can we reasonably be expected to compete if we take 2/3rds of the international dates off and then ramp things up 8 months before qualifying?

We need better people running the show and more money to run the show. But foremost some damn accountability.

[devioustrevor]

quote:Originally posted by ottawaguy2009

I would have said the same if they were Croatian or Pakistani. I think the board of the CSA should reflect Canada's diversity: we need some Africans, some people from the Carribean, maybe a Latino or two. The current way isn't working: what do we do?

Perhaps hire the most competent people regardless of ethnicity. Putting people on the board just to make up numbers diversity-wise is an idea that should best be classified as a special kind of stupid.

[ottawaguy2009]

quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor

Perhaps hire the most competent people regardless of ethnicity. Putting people on the board just to make up numbers diversity-wise is an idea that should best be classified as a special kind of stupid.

I felt it important to mention my stance on that issue. Don't want to paint myself as anti-this or anti-that. I was just curious that 4/6 CSA Executive were Italians. Is that random or is that a sign of a nepotistic (did I spell that right?) organization? See that's my problem there. Is that there does not seem to be much "accountability" wrt that organization, to use the words of one poster.

Anyways, back to the issue. I've rethought the whole issue, substituting a successful club team for the national team, and I agree, it doesn't seem like a good idea necessarily. However, given that our country is so regionalist, Canadians take more pride in their cities than in their province or country. THUS, since that is the case, I have to say that I do feel this would be the best option. That Montrealers (and Quebecers as a spin-off) would get behind the MNT rabidly one year should the Impact be our representative on the international stage. The following year it might be TFC and then the 6 million people in the GTA can get behind the MNT and so on and so on until the whole country has been hooked at least once (by their local club representing our nation!) and we can move to a nation-wide MNT. Yeah? No? What?

[gator]

^ The club team is an interesting concept, although as I previously stated, I'm not sure it would work on the field! As for creating regional interest, I think the CONCACAF Club Championships is doing that! There was a thread recently suggesting we have a North American based MNT to play on every FIFA date, I agree with this! We would get a better idea of how competetive our North American based players would be, and who knows, maybe this would be the way to go!

[devioustrevor]

The Provincial associations already have far too much power, granting them more power by rotating the CSA presidency seems counter-productive.

As for 4 of 6 CSA executives being Italian, so what? It's not some great conspiracy or anything. Our most successful development program is run by a team who's president is Italian, he's also the former head coach of the CMNT. Also, look at the Montreal Impact, their President is Italian and so is their GM.

Ethnicity doesn't matter. If the guy most capable of successfully running the CSA was a Tamil or a Greenland Inuit, I'd say give him (or her) the job.

Quite honestly competency is what we most need. We also need a reformed CSA where the BoD has very little Day-to-Day power and the important operations are left to a competent President. We need National Strategies, not a BoD where the true power lies in the collective Provincial Associations who are more worried about Youth Registration levels in North Battleford, Saskatchewan than the development and success of the CMNT program.

[loyola]

The CSA President is from Corsica....he isn't italian.

3 italians, 16 english names, 1 corsican.....

[Vic]

^ actually that's not an accurate portrayal of things.

- the President is Italian

- the General Secretary is Italian/Corsican (whatever)

- a voting majority of the ExComm is Italian

- virtually the entire women's program is now Italian

Hire an Italian to replace Mitchell and bring in his people and run the Men's side and you have a clean sweep and we are probably as Italian as the Italian Football Federation.

At least when it was Club Brit you could understand some of the dialects. Now anyone with national aspirations has to cram Rosetta Stone or Berlitz

[dpetzz]

you know think about it for a sec...the last time we had any success, there was a german coaching us...what did he do...he tried to reform the system and got fed up.....bringing in italians might not be bad....or bringing in other top soccer nation type of people....but the comment of needing africans or latin american officials is crazy...sure it is nice in terms of equally hiring all cultures but not in terms of reforming a system....not too many african federations are exactly the cream of the crop in the football world...we might need a major mix up but not one that will put us in a worse position (if that is even possible).

[ottawaguy2009]

quote:Originally posted by dpetzz

you know think about it for a sec...the last time we had any success, there was a german coaching us...what did he do...he tried to reform the system and got fed up.....bringing in italians might not be bad....or bringing in other top soccer nation type of people....but the comment of needing africans or latin american officials is crazy...sure it is nice in terms of equally hiring all cultures but not in terms of reforming a system....not too many african federations are exactly the cream of the crop in the football world...we might need a major mix up but not one that will put us in a worse position (if that is even possible).

Fine. whoever can do the job and do it right gets it. i didn't mean to make the CSA a model UN. i was simply trying to head for cover from the potentially pi@sed off Italians out there. black white brown green whatever. The CSA needs a good cleaning.