Trillium Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Well full marks for Germany ..winning the World Cup. On the scorelines ...especially the clean sheet they are probably the best women's team yet. All we can hope is that they get to do an extensive tour next season to show thier form against other national teams. CSA are you listening ? I still think Brasil was a delight, expect the defensive issues to be worked on hard for the Olympics and beyond, I can imagine the CBF searching the fields of Rio Grande do Sul to build a solid back line. I suspect some of the bigger pro clubs are going to see the womens success and begin integrating programs for females... there is a huge base that could be developed in a soccer culture to build a stronger program then exists now in Brasil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesW Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Germany did win, but I think they got lucky. A missed penalty, argubaly a missed penalty call, a post, and Germany's first goal seemed to be shot right at the keeper, who seemed to almost jump out of the way. Maybe she miss read it or didn't see it coming. Anyways, all teams need luck to win, and Germany are the rightful winners. A good close to a great tournament. Thank you CBC for giving us all the games online and a good many on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Germany were clearly the better organized team. They also have the talent to go with it. The women's game in Brazil is growing but continues to face challenges in expanding beyond one essentially based in the state of Sao Paulo to a lesser degree in the state of Rio de Janeiro. The societal changes necessary are beginning to happen but it will take time. The statements by the CBF about developing a national cup tournament don't really mean much if sponsors do not step up. I hope they do because I did enjoy the game today and the women's game needs more elite competitors to develop internationally. It is hoped that Argentina can move women's soccer in the same direction; although, I suspect it remains a few more steps behind. I also hope the Canadian team revisits the approach that it has attempted to use over the past decade because that approach is not going to keep it ahead of other rapidly developing national teams. And it is not just about not having a soccer culture here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Again for those who think ball possession wins games, both of todays winners had less posession than the winners. US 47% - Norway 53% yet a 4 - 1 US. win and Germany 43% to Brazil's 57%. In the third place game the announcer even noted that the team with the majority of the possession was usually lost during this world cup. It would be interesting if someone took the time and looked at every game that did not end in a tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 It would be interesting to see the broader statistics on ball possession and wins/losses but, at the risk of being accused of stating the obvious, it is an undisputable fact that a team cannot score if it does not have possession of the ball (except for the occasional own goal of course). Looking at two games or even one whole tournament won't really reveal the true picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 I couldn't agree more. It's just that little back passes to your defense and passing the ball around the defense. I counted Brazil making 5 passes among their defenders before advancing the ball several times inflates the possession statistic. A more reasonable statistic in my opinion might be goal chances. Possession of the ball in your own half of the field does not produce too many goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Possession in the attacking third is the stat that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 No, I think oals for, and goals against is the stats that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by terpfan68 No, I think oals for, and goals against is the stats that matters. I was talking about the stat that mattered to the stat that mattered. People look at possession but they count it wrong. It isn't the total amount, it is where the possession occurs that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by terpfan68 No, I think oals for, and goals against is the stats that matters. I was talking about the stat that mattered to the stat that mattered. People look at possession but they count it wrong. It isn't the total amount, it is where the possession occurs that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Your right of course, it's just that no one actually takes note of possession in the final third. I do think that they could take note of the possession percentage in the offensive half. Corners are also an indication of attacking power and I would bet that more often than not the team with the most corners is the winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Your right of course, it's just that no one actually takes note of possession in the final third. I do think that they could take note of the possession percentage in the offensive half. Corners are also an indication of attacking power and I would bet that more often than not the team with the most corners is the winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 quote:Originally posted by terpfan68 No, I think oals for, and goals against is the stats that matters. It's both and more. You're looking at possession in attack, scoring chances and goals as a measure of the game by stats. What you do with the ball when you have it is more important than simply having it. Also, context of possession needs to be taken into consideration. Does a team have the ball more because they're losing and are therefore pressing the attack? Besides, if you look at the game Brasil was on the Germans for most of the game but couldn't break them down in the last third. When the Germans got some build up going they looked dangerous. Otherwise it was about hoofing the ball up field to stem the tide of Brasil and continuously defending. Oh, and they hit a set piece goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Possession, especially in the attacking half, increases the odds of a goal being scored. Possession anywhere on the field means your opponent cannot score against you (while you have the ball). Both are important factors in determining who is most likely to finish the game with a goal advantage, after all it only takes a one goal difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 I was talking about the stat that mattered to the stat that mattered. People look at possession but they count it wrong. It isn't the total amount, it is where the possession occurs that matters. Exactly. Overall it's a stat which is beyond misleading but very, very telling when broken down into it's useful components and taken in concert with other match data. When you had possession, where you had possession by whom was it shared and under what circumstances. A 60/40 split in favour of the losing team reads a bit truer if you further explain that the losing team spent a majority of their time WHILE THEY WHERE LOSING passing the ball about between defenders 40+ yards from the attacking goal. One of my old coaches used to call it "Pricking about in the wilderness". Sticks in my head. Organize yourselves right. Starve their linkers for the ball and you just let them tool around out there, pricking about in the wilderness. Disclaimer;</u> Can overdo that so-called "bunker" mentality of course. When a tactical requirement becomes a match strategy (see Canada vs Australia) you're likely over doing it and just being wasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I think everyone is pretty much in agreement. When I was coaching youth soccer my cheer before the game was always the same. I would shout "Whose ball is it?" and my team in the huddle would yell "Ours" We would do this three time and then go line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Meanwhile, back to the final game. Did anyone notice how far the ref would mark off free kicks. I saw the German players looking puzzled several times because the distance sometines looked closer to 15 yards than 10. I also thought the ref would let a hard tackle go and then call a foul on something that didn't really look all that bad? Do you think female officials working women's games are tighter than male officials would be? Is their a gender bias at work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Congrats to Germany for playing a disciplined, organized game. Brazil blew its chances, especially Marta missing a penalty. Despite playing excellent possession, Brazil could not convert and looked to ref a lot, trying to draw penalties. Many times Marta would go against four Germans in defense and try to draw a foul. I appreciate great possession and footwork, but I do not like to see talented players pleading the ref to give a yellow card. I think the ref called a good game, in spite of the showmanship. Brazil deserved to be in the final, but Germany deserved the victory. Birgit Prinz showed she's the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPB Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 The story of this game? The many missed opportunities by both sides. Brazil could have been champs if they had converted just 1/3rd of their golden opportunities. Germany's ratio of shots on goal per shot at goal was higher than Brazil's. Sometimes, as in this game, all the talent on the ball in the world cannot make up for mistakes made as a result of a strong defensive pressure against the flashy would-be goal scorers. It is a common story. With this match we saw that the women's game has matured to the point that this common story caught up with the best team in the tournament -- player for player. And, then, there was the mighty German keeper, organizing her defenders, and the excellent substitutions made by the German coach. And the reliable Prinz who barely had a handful of attempts on goal but scored the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 For those who like stats: The complete declaration and a summary of the main research results can be found on the event media channel on www.FIFA.com. Direct link: http://media.fifa.com/en/wwc/media/login.html username: fwwcmedia Password: 07China07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Que Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Marta choked! The most skilled female soccer player in the world. Fifa player of the year. Maybe one day considered the best ever, choked in the biggest game of her life. Any other big game and she nails that PK. But this was the gold medal game of the World Cup and it showed with her play. She was still very good, but not the difference maker. Down 1-0 in the gold medal game she has to make that shot. She also had another chance later on that she blasted up high. I'm thinking if Wambach or Prinz are in that same situation for the their teams they are going to score that goal. They have that extra experience and maturity that will allow them to perform better when the pressure is at its absolute highest. Another terrific match. I will watch Brazil anywhere anytime they are just so tremendous with the ball. I think they will be on a mission and will be very tough to beat at the Olympics. Germany's defense is so good. They bend but do not break. If a defender is beaten then the other defenders seem to be in such good position to get the ball out of the box. And if good shots do get thru then their keeper is their to make world class stops. That kind of goalkeeping gives the whole team confidence and it showed. The Germans new they only needed a few quality chances. What a brilliant pass by Stegemann to Smisek to a wide open Prinz. That's all you need. You don't have to pass it 20 times. Quality not quantity. Andreia was the weak link for her team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Question. Which team looked better coached? Consider all aspects of coaching please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Que Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Does there have to be a better coached team in this case? I thought both coaches got the absolute best out of their teams given their (considerable) talents and different playing styles. This match was 100% decided by the players on the pitch. Not the coaches, not the ref. That's all you can ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hats off to both coaches in how they let the players execute what had been taught them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 quote:Originally posted by terpfan68 I couldn't agree more. It's just that little back passes to your defense and passing the ball around the defense. I counted Brazil making 5 passes among their defenders before advancing the ball several times inflates the possession statistic. A more reasonable statistic in my opinion might be goal chances. Possession of the ball in your own half of the field does not produce too many goals. But Brasil won just about every statistic one could look at for this match. Except the goals for, of course. I get your general point, I'm just taking issue with you statement about Brasil making lots of passes among their defenders implying they didn't do a lot of attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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