Where should Canada play WCQs?

[PunjabiOil]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Put Canada vs any world power in each of these cities, and you'd see a sellout or damn near it every single time.

Like the 5,000 that showed up for a Canada-Mexico game in Toronto (most people in attendance were rooting for Mexico) for the 2002 WCQ?

Look, Toronto is doing a great job with the MLS. That doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the country should be shut out, especially those cities with proven success at the gate.

31,200 is not bad at all for a weak match-up, for a JUNIOR team. Not great, but hardly terrible. I just don't understand all this slagging on Edmonton - there have been more p*ssing matched on attendance in the past few weeks rather than the games themselves.

How about, we just support the nation as a whole?

[Jason]

My suggestion is a bit out there, and it definitely doesn't benefit me personally as I live a couple of time zones away, but here goes.

Ottawa.

Why not? They have a 30,000 seat venue that has been pretty much sold out for games so far. What could be more Canadian than our capital city? It's a relatively easy trip for the large population in the Windsor/Montreal corridor. And it's in the Eastern time zone, making it a lot easier for our European based players.

Why don't they test it out by giving them the initial WCQ that I assume will be similar to the Belize series last time. Then go from there based on results. I realize that at least some of the games will be at BMO Field, and I'm good with that. I'd also like to see at least one game in Edmonton, preferably later in the year. I think it's a real advantage when the Central American clubs or even Mexico have to play in Edmonton in October for example. And isn't that what it's all about -- giving a home field advantage?

Jason

[GlueGun18]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

For the love of Pete, can we stop using this game to determine how well a city would support soccer?

Firstly, the game was in 1994 not 93, two weeks before the World Cup in the USA.

Secondly, there were 52,000 there, so technically not a sell-out. A fantastic crowd size, yes. A sell-out, no.

Thirdly, that game would have gotten the same sized crowd at SkyDome, the Big O or BC Place. Commonwealth was (and remains) the only natural grass facility of that size.

Put Canada vs any world power in each of these cities, and you'd see a sellout or damn near it every single time.

It probably would have gotten great crowds in other venues as well, but the fact is that it was here and there was a great crowd, so I don't get why people suddenly think Edmonton doesn't deserve any international soccer anymore just because only(?) 31000 were at the U20 game.

Also, I get that Toronto probably deserves more games than other cities because it is the biggest city, media centre, ethnically diverse, etc, but it also has a very tiny venue. 30,000 at Olympic Stadium or Commonwealth Stadium may not be "TV pretty" but it is still a much larger crowd than at BMO, so they are equally deserving. Just spread the love and make everyone happy.

P.S. This question has probably come up many times before, but why can't other football stadiums like Roger's Centre, McMahon Stadium, Mosaic Stadium, Canad Inns, etc viable venues?

[Jason]

quote:Originally posted by GlueGun18

It probably would have gotten great crowds in other venues as well, but the fact is that it was here and there was a great crowd, so I don't get why people suddenly think Edmonton doesn't deserve any international soccer anymore just because only(?) 31000 were at the U20 game.

Also, I get that Toronto probably deserves more games than other cities because it is the biggest city, media centre, ethnically diverse, etc, but it also has a very tiny venue. 30,000 at Olympic Stadium or Commonwealth Stadium may not be "TV pretty" but it is still a much larger crowd than at BMO, so they are equally deserving. Just spread the love and make everyone happy.

P.S. This question has probably come up many times before, but why can't other football stadiums like Roger's Centre, McMahon Stadium, Mosaic Stadium, Canad Inns, etc viable venues?

McMahon, Mosaic, and CanadInns all have permanent football lines, which means that unless you lay some real grass on top at a huge cost, you can't have games there. I believe Ivor Wynne in Hamilton is the same as well.

Jason

[mjoni]

Size of stadium doesn't matter. The most important thing is having a majority of home supporters. Give priority to pro team seasons tickets holders, break up stadium into supporter sections and sell accordingly, choosing a limited seating section for opposing team supporters - even if there's thousands more who want tickets. I don't care if all our home games are played in St. John's, if that's the only place where we can guarantee solid home team support then so be it!

[beachesl]

Hopefully the CSA will get wise and take cold climate into consideration for WCQ's. Mongolia had a WCQ in the last round in subzero weather, and a protest by the visiting country was disallowed. For February/March or October/November we should not automatically give the match to the West Coast as a favor to our visitors from the south.

Also, if we host the first match of 2 match week, or for a single match week, it should be in the Eastern or Atlantic time zone to help our Euro based players adjust better.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by PunjabiOil

Look, Toronto is doing a great job with the MLS. That doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the country should be shut out, especially those cities with proven success at the gate.

It's not about you. It's about the team. If you want the games moved around, make an argument as to why that would give the team an advantage.

And that crowd in Edmonton was pathetic. I'm not convinced the +30k attendance was not a tickets sold number rather than a butts in the seats number...And the organizers should be taken aside and repeatedly kicked in the their balls for scheduling the Canada game first, when people were still at work.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Edmonton has proven on many occasions to be a solid home field for Canada.

Regardless of crowd size (and there have certainly been many matches over 20,000), it is always a pro-Canada crowd, and is never even close in that regard.

To suddenly disregard Edmonton as a site for World Cup Qulaifying, based on how a U-20 match looked on TV (when in fact there was a crowd of 31,000, which is great), is short sighted to say the least.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

To suddenly disregard Edmonton as a site for World Cup Qulaifying, based on how a U-20 match looked on TV (when in fact there was a crowd of 31,000, which is great), is short sighted to say the least.

I'm not (but I'm not backing off my position that the u-20 response in Edmonton has been weak. Spin all you want, but that stadium was considerably less than half-full). I've advocating for all WCQ games to be held in Toronto because that's what I believe will be the best thing for the SMNT.

Don't worry though. This is Canada, they will move the games around in an effort to be "fair" and in doing so will satisfy no one and accomplish nothing more than to make the qualifying process as difficult as possible for the team.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by PunjabiOil

Like the 5,000 that showed up for a Canada-Mexico game in Toronto (most people in attendance were rooting for Mexico) for the 2002 WCQ?

You're clearly too ignorant to have a rational discussion with.

"Most" people there were not cheering for Mexico at all. There were roughly 7,000 there (technically a sellout, as Varsity had one foot in the grave at that point) and it was overwhelmingly pro-Canada. This was after Canada had embarrassed themselves and got eliminated from the World Cup two or three games previous (and a full two years before the tournament).

Let me ask you this: given that Edmonton had 8,000 or so on a nice summer day for a crucial WCQ against Honduras during the last qualification process, what makes you think they would have done any better with a mid-November, meaningless match versus Mexico?

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by GlueGun18

It probably would have gotten great crowds in other venues as well, but the fact is that it was here and there was a great crowd, so I don't get why people suddenly think Edmonton doesn't deserve any international soccer anymore just because only(?) 31000 were at the U20 game.

Also, I get that Toronto probably deserves more games than other cities because it is the biggest city, media centre, ethnically diverse, etc, but it also has a very tiny venue. 30,000 at Olympic Stadium or Commonwealth Stadium may not be "TV pretty" but it is still a much larger crowd than at BMO, so they are equally deserving. Just spread the love and make everyone happy.

P.S. This question has probably come up many times before, but why can't other football stadiums like Roger's Centre, McMahon Stadium, Mosaic Stadium, Canad Inns, etc viable venues?

Rogers Centre (I hate calling it that), is owned by the Blue Jays/Rogers, and there was no way in hell the Jays were going to pack it in for a month while a soccer tournament took over.

If you're talking about one-off games, there have been plenty at SkyDome, including those ChampionsWorld games that drew 40,000 and 50,000 a couple of years ago.

A big problem with SkyDome, McMahon and the other CFL stadia is that the turf is not FIFA approved, hence no qualifiers could take place unless grass was brought in.

Given that the sod used for the ChampionsWorld tour cost SkyDome $500,000, the price would definitely not be worth the reward.

[jonovision]

[sarcasm]This has been a really productive conversation[/sarcasm]

Can't we all just agree that it would be a shame if all of our matches were held in Toronto (or Edmonton). It needs to be spread around, with consideration given to travel issues. A Western city is a reasonable host if there is enough lead up time or it is the second of a two match international break (playing on a Wednesday after a Saturday international, for instance).

A pro-Canadian crowd is a must and TFC's success in cultivating fans hopefully will assure at least a neutral setting at BMO Field.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

Can't we all just agree that it would be a shame if all of our matches were held in Toronto (or Edmonton). It needs to be spread around, with consideration given to travel issues.

No, we can't because I, for one, completely disagree with the idea that the games should be "spread around"

Why?

IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR THE FANS.

Do you think Mexico worries that holding all its qualifiers in Aztec Stadium is unfair to its fans in the Yucatan???

Please tell me how holding the games in different stadiums benefits the team.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

You're clearly too ignorant to have a rational discussion with.

"Most" people there were not cheering for Mexico at all. There were roughly 7,000 there (technically a sellout, as Varsity had one foot in the grave at that point) and it was overwhelmingly pro-Canada. This was after Canada had embarrassed themselves and got eliminated from the World Cup two or three games previous (and a full two years before the tournament).

Let me ask you this: given that Edmonton had 8,000 or so on a nice summer day for a crucial WCQ against Honduras during the last qualification process, what makes you think they would have done any better with a mid-November, meaningless match versus Mexico?

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

No, we can't because I, for one, completely disagree with the idea that the games should be "spread around"

Why?

IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR THE FANS.

Do you think Mexico worries that holding all its qualifiers in Aztec Stadium is unfair to its fans in the Yucatan???

Please tell me how holding the games in different stadiums benefits the team.

Exactly. Toronto would garner the best support and the best atmosphere.

[striker]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

No, we can't because I, for one, completely disagree with the idea that the games should be "spread around"

Why?

IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR THE FANS.

Do you think Mexico worries that holding all its qualifiers in Aztec Stadium is unfair to its fans in the Yucatan???

Please tell me how holding the games in different stadiums benefits the team.

I agree. As I said earlier in the thread, players crossing time zones should be a concern. We need to be thinking about making things easier for them.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

Exactly. Toronto would garner the best support and the best atmosphere.

Obviously some thought needs to be given to which location most benefits our team, but considering Toronto has yet to prove that they would garner the "best support" and have the best "atmosphere" I don't think your assertion is fair. Other cities deserve the opportunity to make their case.

You will counter that Toronto has supported TFCs and the U20s, but a one-off tournament and a club side are different animals than the highly charged atmosphere of World Cup qualifying.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

Obviously some thought needs to be given to which location most benefits our team, but considering Toronto has yet to prove that they would garner the "best support" and have the best "atmosphere" I don't think your assertion is fair. Other cities deserve the opportunity to make their case.

It remains to be seen whether Toronto will have the "best support", but considering we haven't had a WCQ match here in almost 7 years, I'd say it's about time we had a shot to prove ourselves.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

You will counter that Toronto has supported TFCs and the U20s, but a one-off tournament and a club side are different animals than the highly charged atmosphere of World Cup qualifying.

Read my original post. I gave four other reasons why Toronto is the best choice. And, to be frank, the crowd issue is the least important of those issues.

Playing every game in the same stadium, especially in a stadium that has a surface other teams are not used to playing on (and especially more so because the CMNT will feature some TFC players that will be REALLY used to playing on it) benefits Canada.

Increased media attention will keep the team in the minds of other Canadians. And the likelihood of the games being televised would DRAMATICALLY increase if the games were in Toronto.

Not only would it be easier for our European players to travel to and from Toronto, it would also, on average, be easier and cheaper for fans in other parts of the country to get to Toronto as compared to if the games were in a less central location.

Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, wherever. Just make it one place.

Edited because I'm taking this debate far too seriously...

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

You will counter that Toronto has supported TFCs and the U20s, but a one-off tournament and a club side are different animals than the highly charged atmosphere of World Cup qualifying.

Read my original post. I gave four other reasons why Toronto is the best choice. And, to be frank, the crowd issue is the least important of those issues.

Playing every game in the same stadium, especially in a stadium that has a surface other teams are not used to playing on (and especially more so because the CMNT will feature some TFC players that will be REALLY used to playing on it) benefits Canada.

Increased media attention will keep the team in the minds of other Canadians. And the likelihood of the games being televised would DRAMATICALLY increase if the games were in Toronto.

Not only would it be easier for our European players to travel to and from Toronto, it would also, on average, be easier and cheaper for fans in other parts of the country to get to Toronto as compared to if the games were in a less central location.

Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, wherever. Just make it one place.

Edited because I'm taking this debate far too seriously...

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Read my original post. I gave four other reasons why Toronto is the best choice. And, to be frank, the crowd issue is the least important of those issues.

Playing every game in the same stadium, especially in a stadium that has a surface other teams are not used to playing on (and especially more so because the CMNT will feature some TFC players that will be REALLY used to playing on it).

Increased media attention will keep the team in the minds of other Canadians. And the likelihood of the games being televised would DRAMATICALLY increase if the games were in Toronto.

Not only would it be easier for our European players to trave to and from Toronto it would also, on average, be easier and cheaper for fans in other parts of the country to get to Toronto.

Your points are well taken. I'm not certain the surface will represent a big advantage, and particularly your statement that some TFC players will be REALLY used to playing on it. I think it makes little difference for a goalie, while if Braz or Poz are starting regularly for our Nats than perhaps we have some depth issues. Only Brennan would be a factor here.

Travel is the key consideration and Toronto's main advantage. Montreal would be a good choice too, and even though the stadium isn't of BMO's quality, I wouldn't be against playing some matches there.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Read my original post. I gave four other reasons why Toronto is the best choice. And, to be frank, the crowd issue is the least important of those issues.

Playing every game in the same stadium, especially in a stadium that has a surface other teams are not used to playing on (and especially more so because the CMNT will feature some TFC players that will be REALLY used to playing on it).

Increased media attention will keep the team in the minds of other Canadians. And the likelihood of the games being televised would DRAMATICALLY increase if the games were in Toronto.

Not only would it be easier for our European players to trave to and from Toronto it would also, on average, be easier and cheaper for fans in other parts of the country to get to Toronto.

Your points are well taken. I'm not certain the surface will represent a big advantage, and particularly your statement that some TFC players will be REALLY used to playing on it. I think it makes little difference for a goalie, while if Braz or Poz are starting regularly for our Nats than perhaps we have some depth issues. Only Brennan would be a factor here.

Travel is the key consideration and Toronto's main advantage. Montreal would be a good choice too, and even though the stadium isn't of BMO's quality, I wouldn't be against playing some matches there.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

It remains to be seen whether Toronto will have the "best support", but considering we haven't had a WCQ match here in almost 7 years, I'd say it's about time we had a shot to prove ourselves.

Absolutely, I agree, but I wouldn't look too kindly upon the entire WCQ schedule being played in Toronto. The city may prove a good host with supportive fans, but it's not exactly Azteca in terms of home-field advantage, and I doubt it ever will be.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

It remains to be seen whether Toronto will have the "best support", but considering we haven't had a WCQ match here in almost 7 years, I'd say it's about time we had a shot to prove ourselves.

Absolutely, I agree, but I wouldn't look too kindly upon the entire WCQ schedule being played in Toronto. The city may prove a good host with supportive fans, but it's not exactly Azteca in terms of home-field advantage, and I doubt it ever will be.

[Markus]

Originally posted by beachesl

Hopefully the CSA will get wise and take cold climate into consideration for WCQ's. Mongolia had a WCQ in the last round in subzero weather, and a protest by the visiting country was disallowed. For February/March or October/November we should not automatically give the match to the West Coast as a favor to our visitors from the south.

Agreed. As much as I'd love to see some games in Vancouver, I'd actually prefer to see feb/nov games played somewhere really cold. For once I'd like to see the Mexicans or Ticos playing in freezing temperatures.