Toronto MLS player recruitment

[Jason]

Is it accurate that the Impact have been signing a lot of their players to multi-year contracts? Have the Whitecaps been doing the same? It should be interesting to see how much resistance these clubs will put up when it comes to letting their stars go to the MLS. Considering the comments we've seen, they are not going to let them go without a price, which is the way it should be.

Does anyone think the CSA, "in the interest of Canadian soccer," try to pull some strings behind the scenes to ensure the best Canadians in the USL end up on Toronto MLS?

Jason

[Michael Crampton]

quote:Originally posted by Jason

Does anyone think the CSA, "in the interest of Canadian soccer," try to pull some strings behind the scenes to ensure the best Canadians in the USL end up on Toronto MLS?

Jason

No, because that would bring FIFA and the courts down on them instantly. MLS in T.O. could actually be very, very good for the Impact and Whitecaps financially because it will bid up the price of talented Canadians which they develop. I mean they are already farm teams for the Norwegian league... MLS T.O. would have to be willing to pay more to acquire talented Canadians since they need to have Canadians on the team.

Basically every league in the world is part of a food chain leading to La Liga, EPL and Serie A. Adding another step in that chain close to home with some money to spend will make Canadian players more valuable and thus create more of an incentive for Canadian USL sides to develop Canadian talent (which they keep under contract).

Mike.

[Daniel]

The Impact have signed a few players to multi-year deals and I think the longest expires after 2007. It's not a question of resistance, but, as I'm sure MLS and MLSE know, business. MLS will have to pay transfer fees for any player under contract and the player's club decides where they set the price. Saputo will want to keep hsi players and will definitely increase salaries somewhat.

As for the CSA, I don't think even it can meddle with FIFA transfer rules to help a team.

[Gian-Luca]

A lot of the player recruitment will come from the NCAA draft (Tyler Roselund probably a prime candidate - won't he be eligible for the draft in 2007?) and Bosman transfers.

One team that doesn't sign players to multi-year deals typically is the Toronto Lynx.

[Cheeta]

I'd say the Impact have been very accomodating to players wishing to move on to bigger and better things. Transfer fees don't sound as though they've been outragous. Selling conditions seem to have been more directed towards sharing in the future sales potential of the player and/or performance bonuses. Doesn't get any better than that for a purchasing club.

Not sure how player purchases apply against MLS budgets. Not sure at all. Especially in this single entity enviroment. Could MLSE operate outside their budget for player purchases which'll essentialy become the property of the league and not the club? And would they want to?

Yeah, I think GL's probably right. Bosmans or bust. Can't even imagine the type of squad you'd put together from scratch otherwise.

Wondering if any of our lads abroad are keeping 2007 in mind as they handle their current contracts?

[BrennanFan]

I hope that MLS TO will be able to bring back some players from the lower European leagues. Only by this would MLS really benefit the national team. I know it is damn unlikely, but my dream would be that in a few years, all of our MNT players are playing in MLS toronto, vancouver, and montreal, save anyone playing in the big 4 leagues, or on champions league teams. Sure the quality of competition would DROP compared to the CCC or Norway, but the MNT would gain all important continuity and team building.

[Jason]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

I hope that MLS TO will be able to bring back some players from the lower European leagues. Only by this would MLS really benefit the national team. I know it is damn unlikely, but my dream would be that in a few years, all of our MNT players are playing in MLS toronto, vancouver, and montreal, save anyone playing in the big 4 leagues, or on champions league teams. Sure the quality of competition would DROP compared to the CCC or Norway, but the MNT would gain all important continuity and team building.

I don't think this will happen and even if it could, I don't think I'd want it to. Do we really want to base everything on one (or three) MLS club(s)? Only eleven players can take the field at once. I thought the mantra was "playing time, playing time, playing time" and this would leave a lot of guys who could be starting in Norway or Scotland on the bench of a MLS club.

Without talent development (through playing time and experience), team building can only take you so far.

Jason

[Andrew W]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

A lot of the player recruitment will come from the NCAA draft (Tyler Roselund probably a prime candidate - won't he be eligible for the draft in 2007?) and Bosman transfers.

Tyler Rosenlund is eligible in 2008 (sophomore this year) unless he is allowed into a (potentially) revamped Generation Adidas program which signs age group US internationals (U-17s primarily) and college underclassmen. What happens is the players essentially sign developmental contracts with MLS and then enter the draft. Almost all the GA players are selected simply because they are presigned to el cheapo contracts and they generally have the most upside. If Canadians are put in GA they would also be exposed to potentially being drafted by US teams.

Guys who are 2007 NCAA graduates that would be familiar through age-group national team involvement are Josh Wagenaar and Riley O'Neill. Aside from Rosenlund, in 2008 Mike D'Agostino is another familiar name.

The main way that players will be acquired is obviously free transfers and discovery players. The latter is how Chicago Fire signed Will Johnson. So Toronto MLS could potentially sign a u-17 or U-20 hotshot from (more likely) the Toronto region through this designation. It is also a way to sign players from USL clubs. DeRo was signed by San Jose as a discovery player. A couple of years ago, Dallas was keen to sign Atiba as a discovery player. While he ultimately decided not to sign for MLS, if he had he would have gone to Dallas because they would have put the claim on him.

There are also allocations but they're a little more complicated in how they are doled out and ranked by the league.

Anyways, we'll all become more familiar with the player acquisition system in MLS as time rolls on.

[Saviola7]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

I hope that MLS TO will be able to bring back some players from the lower European leagues. Only by this would MLS really benefit the national team. I know it is damn unlikely, but my dream would be that in a few years, all of our MNT players are playing in MLS toronto, vancouver, and montreal, save anyone playing in the big 4 leagues, or on champions league teams. Sure the quality of competition would DROP compared to the CCC or Norway, but the MNT would gain all important continuity and team building.

Keep in mind that MLS and USL don't break for internationals (although they really should). That would substantially weaken Toronto MLS on those dates.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Personallly I don't see most of our players in Scandinavia wanting to return to TO MLS.

The fact of the matter is that MLS pays significantly less than top flight Sweden or Norway. It is also far inferior in terms of exposure and opportunites. These players have European scouts at every match and even small clubs play exhibition matches against large clubs on a regular basis. Even second tier Scandinavia pays more than most MLS players earn.

Canada has no domestic cup (which is farcical), and certainly there is nothing in North America to compare with Champions League or UEFA Cup action. Not to mention that top Scandinavian clubs can participate in the Royal League.

This would probably explain why MLSE is pushing for increased import numbers.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

I hope that MLS TO will be able to bring back some players from the lower European leagues. Only by this would MLS really benefit the national team. I know it is damn unlikely, but my dream would be that in a few years, all of our MNT players are playing in MLS toronto, vancouver, and montreal, save anyone playing in the big 4 leagues, or on champions league teams. Sure the quality of competition would DROP compared to the CCC or Norway, but the MNT would gain all important continuity and team building.

I think you have a highly inflated view of MLS. Based on what exactly? I hope to hell we do not have the majority of our MNT coming from an MLS side when we have could have them all playing for better money against better competition in Europe.

I hope the MLS in Toronto is successful but it would be another 20 years down the toilet for Cdn soccer if you think we should have our squad largely North American based.

[Richard]

What proportion of the US MNT is drawn from MLS players?

[Crazy_Yank]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

What proportion of the US MNT is drawn from MLS players?

It will probably be 50%, but MLS players will mostly be backups. No more than 2 or 3 will be in the starting 11 come world cup time. That said these "back ups" are excellent players and give the national team its back bone. Most of our European based players have their roots in MLS.

[Crazy_Yank]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

I hope that MLS TO will be able to bring back some players from the lower European leagues. Only by this would MLS really benefit the national team. I know it is damn unlikely, but my dream would be that in a few years, all of our MNT players are playing in MLS toronto, vancouver, and montreal, save anyone playing in the big 4 leagues, or on champions league teams. Sure the quality of competition would DROP compared to the CCC or Norway, but the MNT would gain all important continuity and team building.

I'm wondering if you've actually seen a Norwegian league match. I'm certainly no expert, but I have been to Norway and seen a handfull of matches. I could not see any discernible difference in the quality of play between the Scandanavian leagues and MLS. Also I don't think it's fair to compare MLS to the CCC. All MLS teams have the same salary cap. The best CCC are better than MLS teams, but the bottom table CCC teams would struggle in MLS as well. Most MLS teams remind me of mid-table CCC teams.

[Crazy_Yank]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I think you have a highly inflated view of MLS. Based on what exactly? I hope to hell we do not have the majority of our MNT coming from an MLS side when we have could have them all playing for better money against better competition in Europe.

I hope the MLS in Toronto is successful but it would be another 20 years down the toilet for Cdn soccer if you think we should have our squad largely North American based.

I agree with this post. MLS is largly a developmental league at this point. Once Canadian players start dominating with Toronto they will out grow the league and be on to bigger and better things.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank

I agree with this post. MLS is largly a developmental league at this point. Once Canadian players start dominating with Toronto they will out grow the league and be on to bigger and better things.

Lets just call it the "Improved USL with SSS" then and call the whole 80 million dollar effort off.

[BrennanFan]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I think you have a highly inflated view of MLS. Based on what exactly? I hope to hell we do not have the majority of our MNT coming from an MLS side when we have could have them all playing for better money against better competition in Europe.

I hope the MLS in Toronto is successful but it would be another 20 years down the toilet for Cdn soccer if you think we should have our squad largely North American based.

well actually i dont think much of the quality in MLS. However, thinking back to WCQ, (aside form bad refs, injuries, water bottles)i feel that it was unfamiliarity that killed us before we even got started. Yes our players need European money, but i care about making it to the WC. Having players playing in leagues all over europe which are not significantly much better than MLS is not good for the MNT. Im pretty sure our MNT players playing in the lower leagues would nicely fill up 3 MLS sides, with room left for top div 1 guys. I know it would be wrong to lose the world-class development that our young guys are getting in europe (edgar in newcastle), so obviously a balance has to be struck somewhere. I just think there is something to be said about the familiarity MLS can provide. Yea its great that DeJong is doing great at Helmond Sport, but wouldnt it be better if he came to MLS and developed an uncanny soccer-understanding with Will Johnson that would translate to goals in WCQ?

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

What proportion of the US MNT is drawn from MLS players?

Based on their WCQ v. Mexico in September:

Keller - Bor. M'gladbach (Germany)

Hejduk - Columbus Crew (MLS)

Berhalter - Energie Cottbus (Germany)

Lewis - Leeds United (England)

Reyna - Manchester City (England)

Cunningham - Colorado Rapids (MLS)

Armas - Chicago Fire (MLS)

Beasley - PSV Eindhoven (Holland)

Onyewu - Standard de Liege (Belgium)

Quaranta - D.C. United (MLS)

Mastroeni - Colorado Rapids (MLS)

Bench:

Hanhemann - Reading (England)

Bocanegra - Fulham FC (England)

Conrad - Kansas City Wizards (MLS)

Twellman - New England Revolution (MLS)

Ralston - New England Revolution (MLS)

McBride - Fulham FC (England)

Donavan - Los Angeles Galaxy (MLS)

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

What proportion of the US MNT is drawn from MLS players?

Having visited the US national team website since I posted this question

(http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/teamhome_custom.sps?iType=265&icustompageid=475&mtype=8215)

I can now say that of the 70 or so players listed as being in the 2005 player pool, fully 75% of them are members of MLS teams (the USL does not feature at all). Only 25% are listed with foreign clubs. I think that is a pretty strong endorsement of the MLS and what it can and has done for the US MNT program which has undeniably improved since the inception of the MLS. It also bodes very well for the Canadian MNT program once our MLS team(s) begin playing.

The CSA site lists about 40 players in the Canadian MNT player pool. Of these 78% play outside North America, 17% play in the USL and 5% in the MLS (2 players).

[Gian-Luca]

Its the fact that they have a player pool of 70 and we have one of 40 that is the real issue that MLS in Canada will hopefully help to address. Obviously one team by itself won't make up that number by itself, but its a start.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Based on their WCQ v. Mexico in September:

Keller - Bor. M'gladbach (Germany)

Hejduk - Columbus Crew (MLS)

Berhalter - Energie Cottbus (Germany)

Lewis - Leeds United (England)

Reyna - Manchester City (England)

Cunningham - Colorado Rapids (MLS)

Armas - Chicago Fire (MLS)

Beasley - PSV Eindhoven (Holland)

Onyewu - Standard de Liege (Belgium)

Quaranta - D.C. United (MLS)

Mastroeni - Colorado Rapids (MLS)

Bench:

Hanhemann - Reading (England)

Bocanegra - Fulham FC (England)

Conrad - Kansas City Wizards (MLS)

Twellman - New England Revolution (MLS)

Ralston - New England Revolution (MLS)

McBride - Fulham FC (England)

Donavan - Los Angeles Galaxy (MLS)

You posted the lineup that finished the game, not the starters.

Big match starting 11:

GK - Keller (Europe)

DEF - Berhalter, Bocanegra, Onyewu (all Europe) Hejduk (MLS)

MF - Beasley, Reyna (Europe), Armas, Ralston (MLS)

FOR - Donovan (MLS), McBride (Europe)

This lineup favours European based players without a doubt. Given that Cherundolo was injured, and barring injury leading up to this summer, I would say you could expect 8 of 11 of their preferred WC starting lineup to be European based.

I am not disputing that the MLS entry will be excellent for developing some depth on our NT but I doubt (and hope not) that the majority of our men's team will be on the Toronto MLS squad.

[Massive Attack]

Thanks for catching that Ed. But I think it still helps to give the general idea that most of the US's important players are in Europe. Richard does make a good point that the MLS has given the US some major depth.

I also agree with Ed on the point that Toronto MLS should not be our full national team (or most of it). I'd be happy if one or two players on Toronto MLS were full national team players. To be a world class soccer nation, we will still need to have more players playing in the biggest Euro leagues than we currently do.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Thanks for catching that Ed. But I think it still helps to give the general idea that most of the US's important players are in Europe. Richard does make a good point that the MLS has given the US some major depth.

I also agree with Ed on the point that Toronto MLS should not be our full national team (or most of it). I'd be happy if one or two players on Toronto MLS were full national team players. To be a world class soccer nation, we will still need to have more players playing in the biggest Euro leagues than we currently do.

Another way of looking at the MLS contribution to the US national team is to name what MLS based players would be GUARANTEED being named to the US national team if healthy. Thus, by position:

GK - none

DEF - Mastroeni, Pope?

MF - Noonan, Ralston?

F - Donovan, Johnson, Wolff?

Not that many. Please feel free to amend this list.

[fireman451]

quote:

You posted the lineup that finished the game, not the starters.

Big match starting 11:

GK - Keller (Europe)

DEF - Berhalter, Bocanegra, Onyewu (all Europe) Hejduk (MLS)

MF - Beasley, Reyna (Europe), Armas, Ralston (MLS)

FOR - Donovan (MLS), McBride (Europe)

This lineup favours European based players without a doubt. Given that Cherundolo was injured, and barring injury leading up to this summer, I would say you could expect 8 of 11 of their preferred WC starting lineup to be European based.

True, but three of the Euro players on the above list came from MLS. Boca and DMB from the Fire and McBride from Columbus. IMHO, MLS is the single biggest reason for the success the USMNT has enjoyed over the past 3 WC's (even the Steve Sampson disaster in France). MLS has enabled domestics to develope and play top flight soccer locally which has contributed to our national team. The organic growth for MLS is two fold; 1) to pick up world class talent from Central America and the Caribbean who otherwise wouldn't get too many looks elsewhere (since Mexico keeps the vast majority of its own talent and uses South America to fill the gaps)-which challenges the domestic talent pool to be that much better. 2) MLS creates a natural progression for league-grown American talent to get noticed overseas due to USMNT duty; hence DMB, Boca, McBride, Tim Howard and Bobby Convey.

Here's the official list of players available for the USMNT:

http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/teamhome_custom.sps?iType=265&icustompageid=475&mtype=8215

As you can see, without MLS the USMNT has no depth and most likely would be no further than we were in 1990 (when we had to dog fight our way past T&T on the road in order to get our arses handed to us in Italy).

MLS can only be good for your country and with the possibility of Vancouver joining MLS someday, even that much better for you.

[Guest Ed]

I am not arguing with any of that.

I am trying to temper the overly optimistic types who seem to think that ONE (not 10, not 12) MLS team in Canada is going to help solve our senior men's national team issues.

You currently have 12 teams in the MLS and only a handful from those 12 teams figure for your national team.

One MLS team in Toronto is not going to help our men's team in any big way, despite what the CSA and the commentators on Rogers' Sportsnet have to say.

Our best players will continue to go to Europe and it's those best players that should represent us internationally.

The USA being so xenophobic and full of itself by nature (not that that's a bad thing ) has kept some star players at home that in the Cdn scene would be long gone (Donovan being the most glaring example).