Andrew W Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Looks like it's off to council for a final decision. Finance committee approves Toronto soccer stadium passes another hurdle, one more vote to go TORONTO (CP) - Another step forward for the proposed soccer-specific stadium in Toronto. City council's Policy and Finance Committee endorsed the 20,000-seat venue by an 8-1 margin Thursday, adopting the pro-stadium recommendation made by the Exhibition Place board of governors on Wednesday and recommending that the full council give its approval next week. The $63-million stadium, to be located at Exhibition Place near the waterfront, now goes before the full council (44 councillors and the mayor) next Wednesday. While following the Exhibition Place board in giving the stadium plan a thumbs up, the Policy and Finance Committee also asked the deputy city manager and chief financial officer to submit a report at next week's meeting "on the financial implications and risk exposure to the City." They also asked city officials to start work on a plan for community access to the stadium. The federal government has pledged $27 million to the stadium with another $8 million from the provincial government. If the city provides its $9.8 million, that leaves a little more than $17 million needed to complete the project. Naming rights and a reported $8-million contribution from MLSE are expected to make up that shortfall. The Canadian Soccer Association, City of Toronto and Maple Leafs & Sports Entertainment have already struck concluded an agreement on how to run the stadium. MLSE needs the stadium to land an MLS expansion franchise. Major League Soccer gave MLSE and the City until Oct. 31 to sort out the stadium issue, threatening to look elsewhere for an expansion home unless the issue was settled. The 12-team MLS added two new franchises this season: Real Salt Lake and FC Chivas, which plays out of Carson, Calif. Those expansion franchises cost $10 million US apiece. MLS says the expansion price tag this time will be "slightly higher." The league is looking for a second expansion team in 2007, with the leading candidates Cleveland, Philadelphia, Houston, Milwaukee and St. Louis, Garber said. Exhibition Place is located opposite Ontario Place on the lakefront. It used to be home to the Toronto Argos and Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium, and currently houses the American Hockey League's Marlies at the Ricoh Coliseum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Better than being the board dumb@$$, although right now it's a tight race between you, G-Man and Robert. Now, while what I wrote wasn't a smart ass answer by any means, this response above is. Not that I'm complaining of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Better than being the board dumb@$$, although right now it's a tight race between you, G-Man and Robert. Takes one to know one wouldn't it Rudi. Don't post if you don't like reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Takes one to know one. I see you attended the Pee Wee Herman School of Rebuttals. [8)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by RealGooner I'm an Soccer Ethnosnob and proud of it! ; ) Ethnosnob? Aren't we playing them in November? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Better than being the board dumb@$$, although right now it's a tight race between you, G-Man and Robert. Woo Hoo!! I made 1st cut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi I see that you know I attended the Pee Wee Herman School of Rebuttals. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Better than being the board dumb@$$, although right now it's a tight race between you, G-Man and Robert. I'm a dumbass cause I question the reality of a MLS team in Toronto or the drug like addiction of the soccer community to build SSS's. I'll say it again. The Rogers center is a fine place to play soccer. The taxpayers of Ontario have been bilked already for this place. They don't need to be bilked again, when this SSS sits empty in 3 years after the failure of yet another "Blizzard" named pro team. Someone will have to pay for it, just like what happened with the Skydome. What you should do is start a website that offers season tickets for the cost of 50 bucks (returnable of course if the stadium doesn't get built). Get people to send in their checks and count them up. I bet you don't even get 100. Dumbass. It's easy to lose other people's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Honestly, give it a rest G-Man. The difference between the SkyDome and the new stadium, is that the CSA will get to use the new stadium for free (nevermind that 15 000 in a 20 000 seat stadium looks a lot better than even 25 000 in a 55 000 seat stadium). So that means they can actually host a couple matches a year in Toronto and start building a fan base for our national team. If the MLS team fails, so be it. I'll buy you a cookie as your prize. It's not like it's your money. I doubt you pay more in taxes than you get back (hospitals, schools, roads, police, blah, blah, blah, etc.). So most of this tax money is coming from rich people (like the ones who own MLSE), and big corporation (like MLSE). As for the "ethnic" stuff, I know a few Greeks who went to the Roma-Celtic match at the Dome last summer only to watch Greek international Dellas. They wouldn't have gone otherwise. Not because they don't care, but because tickets were like $150 or something. So if a Toronto team brings over half-decent internationals, it will attract that players ethnic community. But like G-L said, some 10th division player won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias It's not like it's your money. I doubt you pay more in taxes than you get back (hospitals, schools, roads, police, blah, blah, blah, etc.). So most of this tax money is coming from rich people (like the ones who own MLSE), and big corporation (like MLSE). You know nothing about the tax system in this country. If anything MLSE is most likely looking at the soccer team as a huge tax write off, especially the building of a new stadium. Get the tax breaks and then walk away from the debt. Which what happened with the Skydome, the Corel Centre and any other sport arena/stadium built in Ontario in the last 20 years. It's average people who want nothing to do with pro sports that subsidize it through tax breaks and write off. If this was the CFL team doing this, everyone on this board would be up in arms. As for the CSA using the joint for free, I thought they were putting in cash to get it built, cash raised from the fees inposed on kids playing the sport right accross the country. Hardly free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by G-Man I'm a dumbass cause I question the reality of a MLS team in Toronto or the drug like addiction of the soccer community to build SSS's. I'll say it again. The Rogers center is a fine place to play soccer. If you reduce the capacity for MLS purposes and kick out the Jays and put in grass full time, you might be on to something. Unfortunately the chances of that happening are nil. Its the Rogers Centre. They own the Jays, they aren't going to shunt them to one side so that the Leafs can get all of the best dates at the dome for their soccer team, and with the Argo's getting 2nd choice, that's going to give MLSE Monday to Wednesday nights for MLS games - which is totally conflicting with the rest of the MLS schedule I might add. What kind of crowds are you going to get for soccer on Monday & Tuesday nights, as opposed to the weekend? That more than anything will hurt the chances of MLS success in Toronto. Read my lips: MLS in Toronto will not work in the Rogers Centre with the Jays & Argos there. That's leaving aside the whole issue of community groups who will use the stadium under the bubble in the winter, and the national teams who will finally have a home in Canada's largest city - both men and women. How many national team games of any kind have happened at the Rogers Centre since Varsity was torn down? The same amount of good posts you've had on this board on this subject - a big fat Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by G-Man As for the CSA using the joint for free, I thought they were putting in cash to get it built, cash raised from the fees inposed on kids playing the sport right accross the country. Don't know where you got that from. The CSA is not putting even one penny into this. Pipe said the other day they will be paying 7% of the gate for any match the hold there. So "free" meaning they won't be risking anything really, cause 7% of $0 is $0. quote:Originally posted by G-Man You know nothing about the tax system in this country. If anything MLSE is most likely looking at the soccer team as a huge tax write off, especially the building of a new stadium. Get the tax breaks and then walk away from the debt. Which what happened with the Skydome, the Corel Centre and any other sport arena/stadium built in Ontario in the last 20 years. It's average people who want nothing to do with pro sports that subsidize it through tax breaks and write off. When somebody says "tax write off", that is an immediate clue that they have no clue what they are talking about. You don't get more money back than you pay. MLSE is putting up $8-million. They are not going to get more than that from their taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote: What kind of crowds are you going to get for soccer on Monday & Tuesday nights, as opposed to the weekend? That more than anything will hurt the chances of MLS success in Toronto. And that G-L, is the whole agenda here. Some people desperately want MLS to fail in Canada, and would rather have soccer continue to struggle in poorly suited stadiums than have SSS built if that might invite in the evil MLS. Yup, if the national teams can get an SSS but have to share it with MLS, then they would rather have no SSS at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 completely agree...anyone who says "tax write off" has absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about with respect to finances. You don't throw away profit by simply pushing up your expenses by dumping it into worthless investments. As with any investment, if you put capital in you can write it off over the period of years allowed under accountancy rules. Therefore, a $1million investment does not even reduce your profit the year it is expended by that amount as its not seen as a $1million expense but a capital investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 This is just lovely. Bob 'cocksucker' McCowan is going on a rant against the stadium right now on the Fan 590. He's also asking listeners to call/write their councillors to vote against the stadium next week. Damn! You might want to listen, apparently they are going to have the mayor on. Audio is available here: http://www.fan590.com/mediaplayer/mediaPlayer.jsp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 The show is simulcast on Sportsnet, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi The show is simulcast on Sportsnet, too. Yes, they are still talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Its great news that it has received striong approval by the City Committee. I look forward to seeing MLS and Canadian National team games when I'm in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 So far, McCown is unsurprisingly against the stadium, but not without doing some reasearch. He seems to know quite a bit about the topic at hand, even if I don't agree with his viewpoint. Elliot Friedman and Stephen Brunt seem in favour of the stadium, and I actually think that this is a balanced discussion on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by RealGooner And that G-L, is the whole agenda here. Some people desperately want MLS to fail in Canada, and would rather have soccer continue to struggle in poorly suited stadiums than have SSS built if that might invite in the evil MLS. Yup, if the national teams can get an SSS but have to share it with MLS, then they would rather have no SSS at all. This is going to be so much fun watching this fail. G-L as for NT games in Toronto, hosting them in the Rogers Centre and drawing less than 8K would be an embarrassement for the CSA in a metro area of 4. 8 million. Montreal should get games way before TO. Again Toronto is a terrible soccer city unless two ethnic teams play each other- a la Santos/Sporting or Liverpool/ Porto. It's simply a crap soccer town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by An Observer completely agree...anyone who says "tax write off" has absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about with respect to finances. You don't throw away profit by simply pushing up your expenses by dumping it into worthless investments. As with any investment, if you put capital in you can write it off over the period of years allowed under accountancy rules. Therefore, a $1million investment does not even reduce your profit the year it is expended by that amount as its not seen as a $1million expense but a capital investment. MLSE makes a ton on money off the Leafs. What they will write off with the MLS team is will be pure tax that they currently pay on their leafs profit. There is no way a MLS team will ever make money. They've lost 250 Million in 10 years. I'm sure Mr Hunt isn't writing any of his loses off. That's why tax lawyers make millions. Ask Rod Bryden how he does it. Or Conrad Black. And lets not even get on the topic of writing off building costs. Which in time can be sold for a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by G-Man There is no way a MLS team will ever make money. The LA Galaxy have turned a profit two years running, and it's expected that they will be joined by Chivas USA when this year's beans are counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Fixed. What's next? 'I know you are, but what am I?' [8)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by G-Man MLSE makes a ton on money off the Leafs. What they will write off with the MLS team is will be pure tax that they currently pay on their leafs profit. There is no way a MLS team will ever make money. They've lost 250 Million in 10 years. I'm sure Mr Hunt isn't writing any of his loses off. Ask Rod Bryden how he does it. Or Conrad Black. And lets not even get on the topic of writing off building costs. Which in time can be sold for a profit. You don't "write off" 100%. It still costs them money. And yeah, ask Conrad Black how he does it. (It's called fraud). McClown sounded like a fool. He was saying stupidities. Like he said he wonders how much the MLS team will pay in rent. Pipe on his show the other day said the MLS team will pay 7% of the gate. One interesting thing was that McCowan said MLSE will own 50% of the "equity"!? Now maybe he just misunderstood since MLSE will cover half, maybe he thought they will own half which is not the case. But the deal Pipe described the other day really is to good to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias One interesting thing was that McCowan said MLSE will own 50% of the "equity"!? Now maybe he just misunderstood since MLSE will cover half, maybe he thought they will own half which is not the case. No, this is correct. All investor/owners of MLS own 51% of their teams, while the other 49% is owned by the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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