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Hurdle number 2!


Calgary Boomer

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So the CSA, MLSE, and City of Toronto have agreed on the management of a new stadium, and yesterday Exhibition Place's board of governors unanimously approved plans to house the stadium on the lake front.

Today, it's the city council's policy and finance committee, and then the big one, next Wednesday's city council vote.

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quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

So the CSA, MLSE, and City of Toronto have agreed on the management of a new stadium, and yesterday Exhibition Place's board of governors unanimously approved plans to house the stadium on the lake front.

Today, it's the city council's policy and finance committee, and then the big one, next Wednesday's city council vote.

How about the big hurdle? Will people show up for games. Considering Toronto's shaky soccer history will this work? All the joy on this site from people who up to 3 weeks ago believed that a pan Canadian soccer league was the only way to go is rather amusing.

I doubt that they’ll sell more than a 1000 season tickets let alone a single corporate box that doesn't belong to MLSE.

This would work in Montreal or Vancouver, but in Toronto it's a dead on arrival. The best years of the Blizzard the club never drew more than 9000 a game. Where in Montreal (23000) and Vancouver (21000) the NASL drew crowds.

A waste of 60 million into a stadium (when the Skydome could be used for the 2007 WC and for even a MLS team) and a bigger waste of the 10 million-expansion fee.

This is going to be just like the NBA heading into Vancouver. 2 years and the team will move.

This hasn't been thought through.

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quote:Originally posted by G-Man

This would work in Montreal or Vancouver, but in Toronto it's a dead on arrival. The best years of the Blizzard the club never drew more than 9000 a game.

Actually, they averaged double-digit attendance figures in 79, 80, 83 and 84. I believe the other years averaged around 9000.

Their best year was 1980 when they averaged just over 15,000.

Very respectable figures, and the largest for any club in Toronto history.

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quote:Originally posted by G-Man

The best years of the Blizzard the club never drew more than 9000 a game.

Total nonsense. Winnipeg Fury has already posted some averages, I can personally attest to seeing crowds larger than 9000 since I was there at the time, even though the Blizzard had some decent pro soccer competition in Toronto at the time (which people who bring up the size of the crowds in other cities always conveniently forget).

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quote:I doubt that they’ll sell more than a 1000 season tickets let alone a single corporate box that doesn't belong to MLSE.

This would work in Montreal or Vancouver, but in Toronto it's a dead on arrival. The best years of the Blizzard the club never drew more than 9000 a game. Where in Montreal (23000) and Vancouver (21000) the NASL drew crowds.

Rubbish! And I'm quite sure they will sell at least 5,000 season tickets in the first year. I myself will be buying at least two.

Average attendance for the Blizzard:

1979 ... 11,821

1980 ... 15,043

1981 ... 7,287

1982 ... 8,105

1983 ... 11,630

1984 ... 11,452

---------------

All time average: 10,889

Meaning an average of just under 11,000.

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quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

Rubbish! And I'm quite sure they will sell at least 5,000 season tickets in the first year. I myself will be buying at least two.

Average attendance for the Blizzard:

1979 ... 11,821

1980 ... 15,043

1981 ... 7,287

1982 ... 8,105

1983 ... 11,630

1984 ... 11,452

---------------

All time average: 10,889

Meaning an average of just under 11,000.

Well, we'll see. 80 million to throw at a half assed idea is allot of coin. And conidering the MLS lost 250 million in it's first 10 years, can't wait to see the loses in TO.

And considering that Metro-Toronto has a population base of 4.7 million the fact that since the demise of the NASL, 20 some odd years ago, they never had a team draw 5k per game, is pretty sad.

Toronto is not a soccer market. There is a reason all those people left football nations to settle in Canada.

They don't like the sport.

And you fail to qoute the CSL Blizzard crowds....or the APSL Blizzard crowds (and what were the Rockets crowds in 94?)...I'd also say add the year they played in the NSL (but that would be cheap) and if the Blizzard name is used, it will be the 5th league that the name would have played in.

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quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto is not a soccer market. There is a reason all those people left football nations to settle in Canada.

They don't like the sport.

Yup, that's me convinced! Hundreds of Thousands of fans of Portugese, Greek, Italian and other European countries origins celebrate soccer in the streets in Toronto every couple of years because they hate soccer.

quote:

And you fail to qoute the CSL Blizzard crowds....or the APSL Blizzard crowds (and what were the Rockets crowds in 94?)...I'd also say add the year they played in the NSL (but that would be cheap) and if the Blizzard name is used, it will be the 5th league that the name would have played in.

YOU were the one who brought up the Blizzard attendance in their "best years" and compared it directly to attendance in Montreal & Vancouver in the NASL days - you set up the context as being an NASL days discussion and then take Jarrek to task for not providing the attendance in CSL or APSL days (even those leagues are obviously not comparable to the NASL or the MLS) when he was responding to the context you provided. Ridiculous.

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I'm not sure if comparing the NASL days with 2007 and beyond is relevant. In those days, advertising and marketing strategies were vastly different, and the NASL to a flaw was quite poor in that area (not just in TO) (I'm not even sure if market research existed!) A company like MLSE would spend its advertising/promotion dollars more shrewdly I'd imagine.

I don't think a company like MLSE would get involved if they didn't do their homework first.

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I don't know much about the Blizzard (I was born in 1982) but if this new club is backed by MLSE (Toronto Maple Leafs) and plays in a new stadium, with the massive influx of immigrants from the Carribean, south east Asia and Africa the team could succeed. I guess I am realy hopefull, prolly cause I have been waiting a life time for a "pro" soccer club in Toronto!

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quote:Originally posted by zacRWE

I don't know much about the Blizzard (I was born in 1982) but if this new club is backed by MLSE (Toronto Maple Leafs) and plays in a new stadium, with the massive influx of immigrants from the Carribean, south east Asia and Africa the team could succeed. I guess I am realy hopefull, prolly cause I have been waiting a life time for a "pro" soccer club in Toronto!

Not to mention all the Latin Americans and East Europeans who are coming in greater numbers and the well entrenched Portuguese, Greek and Italian communities. If this team is able to present itself as a credible soccer team in a credible league, soccer could be huge here.

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Well I will await the thousands flocking out.

Considering the team will be mostly local boys (Canadians)and that the stars that the MLS use are generally Latin American and up and coming, I simply don't see the euro ethnic groups banging down the gates to get in.

As for MLSE, crap anyone could sell hockey in TO. When the Leafs were dead last they sold out every game. They've never had to sell anything. All they've ever had to do was open up a ticket office.

General apathy towards the pro game and an organisation that has never had to work for anything, should be a fun mix to watch.

This sounds like the Edmonton Aviators Part 2.

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quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Well I will await the thousands flocking out.

Considering the team will be mostly local boys (Canadians)and that the stars that the MLS use are generally Latin American and up and coming, I simply don't see the euro ethnic groups banging down the gates to get in.

As for MLSE, crap anyone could sell hockey in TO. When the Leafs were dead last they sold out every game. They've never had to sell anything. All they've ever had to do was open up a ticket office.

General apathy towards the pro game and an organisation that has never had to work for anything, should be a fun mix to watch.

This sounds like the Edmonton Aviators Part 2.

LOL, we really don't care what you think, we'll be enjoying the best soccer available in North America. White kids, ethnic kids, the lot. Have fun at the baseball game buddy.

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Sad to see that some people still don't get it.

Signing a player because he's an ethnic doesn't cut it in this world. MLS tried and failed in this tactic.

All those ethnic people who come out and cheer do so for their country. Not because of one player who just happens to share the same ethnic bloodlines.

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Nobody said that people will come out because they might sign somebody for simply being "ethnic" - we've already seen in Toronto that signing players from the Brazilian 10th division won't do anything. I specifically mentioned "international" when talking about what kind of player might be a draw in Toronto. I also didn't use the word "has-been", and I expect if MLSE have a larger cap to play with initially as has been mentioned in the articles you are likely to see less of a foreign has-been on the Toronto than some of those MLS teams had.

On thing that is certain is that the "MLS in Toronto will fail because of the Ethno-snobs" crowd can't have it both ways.

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The key is competitiveness. It won't matter the addresses of the players if the team is competitive. It's fair to say that outside of the Leafs, the TO marketplace loves a winner (as does any marketplace, for that matter).

If this team is competitive along with a couple of prominently placed double-headers (a staple of MLS clubs), then it should draw somewhere near the league average (15,000 per game).

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Nobody said that people will come out because they might sign somebody for simply being "ethnic"

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Don't forget the Middle-Eastern communities either. Get one Iranian international on the Toronto MLS team and you'll easily get your 15,000 average attendance.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

Read your posts.

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quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Read your posts.

How embarassing for you. I know exactly what I posted Gavin, look to yourself for your inability to comprehend. I'll try to put it for you more simply - by using the term "international" I was stating that they are signing the player not because simply because they are "ethnic", but also because they are good! Signing a player from the Iranian 15th division won't do anything. People from that community won't come out to see a player simply because he has a Persian name - they will come out if a player is a star for their mother country, a national team player they follow & cheer for.

Get it?

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