brodycheese Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Does anyone think after hearing Saputo and Leonarduzzi today on soccercentral that they're trying to find a way into the mls via re-alignment? I wonder if the big USL clubs are trying to rival MLS, and either force them to combine, or compete. Rochester, Montreal, Vancouver are all big franchises, Portland too, I'm wondering if we're gonna have something like when Wayne gretskxy came in and there was an alignemnt? Any thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Won't happen. The MLS owners who have spent hundreds of millions aren't going to just let them walk in for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 It did appear that both the Impact and the WhiteCaps were playing a little to the Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment organization. The thought of adding Maple Leafs organization to strengthened league of some sort has no doubt crossed their minds. Lenarduzi indicated that the White Cap organization has met with the Maple Leafs already so who knows. The fact that neither got nasty suggests to me that there is still a possibility or some sort of a deal. But who knows what? Just Imagine a presentation by the Impact and the White Caps to the Maple Leaf organization. The Impact can say that they are already profitable. Both can say they have plans to build stadiums. Vancouver is one of the best soccer markets in Canada. And the MLS is demanding a $10 million plus franchise fee from the Maple Leafs just to play. If Kerfoot and Saputo pose the what if... What if each of our organizations kick in $10 million and then grab some of the near border US markets to do the same, what are the possibilities? If all three (and a unified Toronto market could support two teams) then go to Canadian sponsors and television networks... All you need then is convince one of the RIM entrepreneurs to throw in some excess pocket change (Like I mean hiring Aerosmith for a private company party has to cost more), and some others like the Can-West group and you might actually have enough to have a Canadian League with a couple of US Cities. And you do it on the backs of all the promo done and money from the MLS.. Brilliant!!! That would sound like music to Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Anyne else notice they mainly avoided mentionong the Lynx, and when they were mentioned by Leonarduzzi it was spoken in a kind of swallow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje It did appear that both the Impact and the WhiteCaps were playing a little to the Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment organization. The thought of adding Maple Leafs organization to strengthened league of some sort has no doubt crossed their minds. Lenarduzi indicated that the White Cap organization has met with the Maple Leafs already so who knows. The fact that neither got nasty suggests to me that there is still a possibility or some sort of a deal. But who knows what? Just Imagine a presentation by the Impact and the White Caps to the Maple Leaf organization. The Impact can say that they are already profitable. Both can say they have plans to build stadiums. Vancouver is one of the best soccer markets in Canada. And the MLS is demanding a $10 million plus franchise fee from the Maple Leafs just to play. If Kerfoot and Saputo pose the what if... What if each of our organizations kick in $10 million and then grab some of the near border US markets to do the same, what are the possibilities? If all three (and a unified Toronto market could support two teams) then go to Canadian sponsors and television networks... All you need then is convince one of the RIM entrepreneurs to throw in some excess pocket change (Like I mean hiring Aerosmith for a private company party has to cost more), and some others like the Can-West group and you might actually have enough to have a Canadian League with a couple of US Cities. And you do it on the backs of all the promo done and money from the MLS.. Brilliant!!! That would sound like music to Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment. Problem is, unlike the Caps and Impact, MLSE is NOT a soccer organization. Nor do they care about soccer, if they did they could easily put up the $20-million and the stadium would have been up by now. Any soccer team will be a purely financial investment. Makes no sense for MLSE to pick a Canadian league with tier-2 American markets (Rochester, Portland, Seattle - which is what I assume you mean by the "near border US markets") over MLS. The risk is the same, if not more with a CSL, and the potential financial return is a lot less. I just can't see how it would make any sense for MLSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 I would agree except that they are involved although not directly in the Toronto Rock. Second, about coughing up money for a stadium, why use your own money if you can get goverment or someone else to pay for it. These guys are hard core. Remember they had the Raptors organization do all the work for the ACC and then they came in late when the numbers worked. Third, too much is made of MLSE not being a soccer organization. The strength behind MLSE is money and money from Tannenbaum and the Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund (Wasn't it rumoured a while back that Bain Capital was willing to buy the NHL?). I think it is more important to know the local sports and entertainment market. No one knows the Toronto market better than MLSE. Still, while the subtle messaging was curious, it is all speculation. quote:Originally posted by Elias Problem is, unlike the Caps and Impact, MLSE is NOT a soccer organization. Nor do they care about soccer, if they did they could easily put up the $20-million and the stadium would have been up by now. Any soccer team will be a purely financial investment. Makes no sense for MLSE to pick a Canadian league with tier-2 American markets (Rochester, Portland, Seattle - which is what I assume you mean by the "near border US markets") over MLS. The risk is the same, if not more with a CSL, and the potential financial return is a lot less. I just can't see how it would make any sense for MLSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 MLSE isn't paying a cent for the Sports and Entertainment facility in Oshawa but will be taking in huge fees to run the facility. MLSE wants the facilities becuase they can control who gets in and who gets out and how much it's going to cost people. Does one really think that MLSE will show any kindness to others when they have control of the stadium? Not a chance. They are in it to make money for the teachers fund. The idea that MLSE knows the sports scene is complete clap trap. MLSE lives off the cult personality and doesn't have to promote themselves. The Raptors lived for a long time on novelty and Vince Carter and showning anything to promote themselves. The Marlies are to maintain control over their facilities. MLSE is the definition of the "corperate welfare bum". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 I think it was interesting when talking about the national team that Saputo wanted to do what was best for soccer in Quebec, and if the players played on the nation team that would be alight because that gives them exposure so they can be sold to european clubs. Thats pretty much what I took from that and I found it pretty sad compared to the Duz's comments that 'Kerfoot from the beginning is devoted to developing soccer in canada from the ground up.' I am glad that they agree on that last part though, as they both seemed really keen on developing soccer through youth system and such. As for stadiums in Montreal that permits and zoning are in place and groundbreaking will happen in March if not December. It will be done by March 2007, so that leaves a little bit of wiggle room for the Fifa tournament. In vancouver Kerfoot is still committed to a downtown stadium, and everything should be finalized in the next few months. Anyone notice Leonarduzzi's little smirk when Forrest starting going on about 'the nicest stadium in the country is about to be built in Toronto'? Could this be in relation to the rumors that the new vancouver stadium will be ultra premium? Also as mentioned Leonarduzzi and John Rocca talked to people at the MLSE and they were positive about the long term of the Whitecaps, Montreal, and the Lynx. I got the feeling that Saputo wasn't too hot on the idea of MLSE's MLS team in Toronto, just by the way he questioned if that would be good for the development in this country, not just professional but in the pyramid from the ground up. While Leonarduzzi gave me the feel that he was more positive about the MLS. I guess thats because he wants on that train. I just wish they hadn't wasted the rest of soccer central will all that rubbish. I was watching the game, but they had the promo for soccer central, which I rarely watch, and the big thing was the 'State of soccer in Canada' roundtable, so instead of going back to bed, i said 'what the hell, I'd like to see that.' Next thing you know its a 'one hour special edition' and they are wasting my time with the state of soccer in Africa. I mean thats interesting, but not when you got up at the crack of dawn to watch football, sat through half an hour of highlite from games you have already seen, when you just want to sleep. I wonder what interesting topic they will steal from the History of Soccer box set next week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 It's Lenarduzzi guys, not Leonarduzzi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 This may be a stretch, but can anyone post a link to or the actual footage of todays special from SC for those who missed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 I know. I slept in today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 It was encouraging to hear how enthusiastic Lenarduzzi & Saputo are when it comes to developing Canadian talent. It was discouraging to hear their opinions on how disjointed Canadian soccer remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ivan It was encouraging to hear how enthusiastic Lenarduzzi & Saputo are when it comes to developing Canadian talent. It was discouraging to hear their opinions on how disjointed Canadian soccer remains. I'm glad I missed Soccercentral then. I would have coughed up my corn flakes hearing Lenny talk about developing Cdn talent. Not high on the list of Whitecap priorities other than their very recent foray into youth teams. Name the last player on our Senior Nats developed by the Whitecaps. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 GK Mike Franks... who would have started in the last few friendlies were it not for a hyper-extended elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster GK Mike Franks... who would have started in the last few friendlies were it not for a hyper-extended elbow. Bah, Ed's just seriously got a hate on for the Whitecaps and Lenarduzzi. Since when is developing Canadian talent judged only on how many players you send to play on the senior national team or overseas? Just because players from Montreal and Toronto have ended up on the mens senior team and overseas is more incidental than because Montreal and Toronto "developed" the talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster GK Mike Franks... who would have started in the last few friendlies were it not for a hyper-extended elbow. Bah, Ed's just seriously got a hate on for the Whitecaps and Lenarduzzi. Since when is developing Canadian talent judged only on how many players you send to play on the senior national team or overseas? Just because players from Montreal and Toronto have ended up on the mens senior team and overseas is more incidental than because Montreal and Toronto "developed" the talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Saputo doesn't want to be second-fiddle soccer in Canada. Kerfoot probably thinks the same way. Yet, neither want to pony up $10m for the MLS expansion fee and are keeping an eye on Toronto. Ideally, they'd try to negotiate something to get into MLS without paying $20m and without going into SEM, a formula which I know Saputo hates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ed I'm glad I missed Soccercentral then. I would have coughed up my corn flakes hearing Lenny talk about developing Cdn talent. Not high on the list of Whitecap priorities other than their very recent foray into youth teams. Name the last player on our Senior Nats developed by the Whitecaps. Please. I do not agree. There are currently a few young players on the Caps who have a chance to one day play on the Nats (Harmse, Valente, Kindel), along with Franks who has been there in a limited role. They also have, possibly Canada's best development system in the Whitecaps SYL teams down to U13 or so. They field a reserve team boasting some good young prospects in the PCSL, not to mention a new stadium on the horizon that will host NT games as well as the Caps. I know this has already been argued on a previous thread, and only Franks (albeit in a minor role) is a current NT player, but they do stand to be a major contributer in the not too distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 How old is Kindel? 26 or 27? Valente must be about 25 now...would not call any of them young any more. Harmse must be 21 at least by now...but he may still have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 I don't know. Sending players onto bigger and better things seems like the perfect yard stick to measure how well you're developing talent. At least to me. Would like to see maybe a bit more of Franks though. Think he could step things up some if challenged but he's also got a lot of competition. Might be stuck as injury cover. If The Duz is steering a new corse towards players who'll eventually play their way above and OUT of the USL 1st Div. and not down and INTO it then all the better for all concearned. 'Cap and Canada fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by An Observer How old is Kindel? 26 or 27? Valente must be about 25 now...would not call any of them young any more. Harmse must be 21 at least by now...but he may still have a chance. Still they are Canadian soccer players and they were developed by the Whitecaps. Lets not forget Jordan and his leading the USL is goals this season. Whitecaps don't select the national team, so it;s not their fault that htese players aren't called up. Can't do any worse tham the other USL call ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 The Duze spoke more about developing soccer in Canada generally and the pyramid structure specifically and advocated at the end of the segment getting the "soccer people" from various Canadian cities (mentioned Edmonton and Calgary specifically) together to try to bring some shape to Cdn. soccer rather than a mish mash on independently orchestrated activites (which he views MLSE as doing). I don't think he placed any where near as much emphasis on developing players for the national team as did Saputo, but put more on developing a national infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Still they are Canadian soccer players and they were developed by the Whitecaps. Kindel wasn't developed by the Caps. He came out of the youth national team coached by Twamley and played in Belgium before returning to BC. Valente was developed by the Tulis soccer school for which Valente's parents paid big bucks. He's had tryouts with the Nationals and failed to stick except with a sub team sent to the Francophone games. He didn't have a regular spot on the team this year. Frank's days are numbered, he'll be let go in the offseason by the Cap. Wicks makes less money and Djekanovic will be Wicks's back-up. Harmes is the only one with a chance to develop into a national team player, but only as a defender. The Caps are changing, and becoming more of a real pro team, with two year contracts, not all one year contracts like in the past. This gives them some potential to develop and sell players. Its not easy for them as they must still compete with the BC Soccer for all the best youth players each summer. Many of the best youth players play for the provincial team and not the Caps YLeague team. Until the Caps can field teams in the Youth Metro/selects league and play all year round for the Caps, the best players will continue to play for Clubs in their area and be developed by youth clubs and soccer schools. The current BC Soccer Rules do not allow clubs like the Caps to enter teams in the Metro/Select leagues, because each team can only have three out of District players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 I think it is fair to say that Kindel, Jordan & Valente were developed professionally by the Caps. Each of them has played there for 3 to 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ivan I think it is fair to say that Kindel, Jordan & Valente were developed professionally by the Caps. Each of them has played there for 3 to 5 years. How are the youngsters Corazzin and Dasovic developing??? I believe they have been with the club 3 and 4 yrs now respectively??? Thanks in advance. Yours truly, Frankie (goes to Hollywood) Y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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