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Lenarduzzi & Saputo on Soccercentral Sept 24


brodycheese

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

How are the youngsters Corazzin and Dasovic developing??? I believe they have been with the club 3 and 4 yrs now respectively???

Thanks in advance.

Yours truly,

Frankie (goes to Hollywood) Y.

I don't know what your point is, but if 6 Impact players can play for Canada, why can't the league's top scorer and the MVP of the third place team? How old are Leduc, Grande, Pizzolito & Gervais?

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He was saying how despite having played in Vancouver for 3-5 years, those old-timers weren't developped by the Caps.

Of the four Montreal players, Grande was developped abroad while Gervais did a couple of seasons in Rochester before coming here. However, he gained his recognition in Montreal.

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quote:Originally posted by Gordon

The Duze spoke more about developing soccer in Canada generally and the pyramid structure specifically and advocated at the end of the segment getting the "soccer people" from various Canadian cities (mentioned Edmonton and Calgary specifically) together to try to bring some shape to Cdn. soccer rather than a mish mash on independently orchestrated activites (which he views MLSE as doing). I don't think he placed any where near as much emphasis on developing players for the national team as did Saputo, but put more on developing a national infrastructure.

Now see, that's pretty much a part of what I thought a tech. director had on his rather large plate once upon a time in one Holger O. Wonder if the new tech. director's mandate will be as ranged?

Given the feudal nature of football authorities in Canada unless the CSA can bring some sort of carrot, and not the whip (ie expences/taxation) I don't really see much changing. Except in the helter-skelter fashion that has been occuring through the normal natural and very local, evolution.

Grand idea. But just a lot of mouth to date.

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

He was saying how despite having played in Vancouver for 3-5 years, those old-timers weren't developped by the Caps.

Of the four Montreal players, Grande was developped abroad while Gervais did a couple of seasons in Rochester before coming here. However, he gained his recognition in Montreal.

Kind of. Here's what I mean. I'm talking about a team that makes a conscious effort to 'develop' young talent. Team management that makes a conscious decision to live with rookie mistakes, that has a goal in mind that the positive strides a young player will make in experiencing play at a higher than ever level will outweigh the short term grief of his inexperience.

The Storm did this with Nik Ledgerwood and Sean Fraser. The Aviators the same I suspect with Gordon Chin.

The key is I am talking about raw, inexperienced kids with big potential. I am sure you could add Stalteri and countless others to the list for the Lynx. And Hainault, di Tullio and others from the Impact.

I don't see the Whitecaps doing much of this at all. They prefer the experienced always.

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quote:Originally posted by Ivan

[quoteI don't know what your point is, but if 6 Impact players can play for Canada, why can't the league's top scorer and the MVP of the third place team? How old are Leduc, Grande, Pizzolito & Gervais?

But the coach, assistants and practically the entire CSA operation are based in Vancouver. Yet they are picking players from an organization that is three time zones away. Therefore, its difficult to even question why certain players from the Caps are left out. How can one possibly make a case for any kind of bias against the Caps or question whether these decisons have anything to do with something other than merit and performance. Plus, I suspect that the national selectors would gladly opt for the local Vancouver based player if all things were equal. Therefore, it obvious that those Impact players are better. Simple as that. Gervais, is a perennial all-star and won defender of the year honners on multiple occasions, Grande has proven himself on the MNT and has some Euro experience, Gerba, is a very consiatant scorer who has moved on and attracted interest abroad. What would have Gerba's goal tally been, in relation to Jordan, had he played an entire season in the USL? Sutton has had a Goals against average of less than 0.50 for the past two seasons and is a fisrt team all star over the same period.

Meanwhile, the Caps have been a nesting ground for players whose carreers are winding down rather those kind of players who have an " up-side". It has served quite well since the team benefits from their experince. So I don't see anything to question.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

But the coach, assistants and practically the entire CSA operation are based in Vancouver. Yet they are picking players from an organization that is three time zones away. Therefore, its difficult to even question why certain players from the Caps are left out. How can one possibly make a case for any kind of bias against the Caps or question whether these decisons have anything to do with something other than merit and performance. Plus, I suspect that the national selectors would gladly opt for the local Vancouver based player if all things were equal. Therefore, it obvious that those Impact players are better. Simple as that. Gervais, is a perennial all-star and won defender of the year honners on multiple occasions, Grande has proven himself on the MNT and has some Euro experience, Gerba, is a very consiatant scorer who has moved on and attracted interest abroad. What would have Gerba's goal tally been, in relation to Jordan, had he played an entire season in the USL? Sutton has had a Goals against average of less than 0.50 for the past two seasons and is a fisrt team all star over the same period.

Meanwhile, the Caps have been a nesting ground for players whose carreers are winding down rather those kind of players who have an " up-side". It has served quite well since the team benefits from their experince. So I don't see anything to question.

To be clear, Free Kick, I am not questioning the inclusion of the Impact players, or suggesting any bias toward Caps players. My point is that Jordan, Kindel, and to a certain extent Valente, do have a chance to wear Canada's colours at some point should their "development" continue. They did after all have good years. I agree the Caps have been a nesting ground for some players whose careers are winding down, but I do not think this applies to Jordan and Kindel, as yet.

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quote:Originally posted by Ivan

... and to a certain extent Valente, do have a chance to wear Canada's colours at some point should their "development" continue.

On that note, what happened to Valente this season? He seems to have had a pretty quiet summer and didn't play that many minutes for the caps. Was he injured, having an off-year or is he simply not developing?

Just curious.

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quote:Originally posted by Ivan

To be clear, Free Kick, I am not questioning the inclusion of the Impact players, or suggesting any bias toward Caps players. My point is that Jordan, Kindel, and to a certain extent Valente, do have a chance to wear Canada's colours at some point should their "development" continue. They did after all have good years. I agree the Caps have been a nesting ground for some players whose careers are winding down, but I do not think this applies to Jordan and Kindel, as yet.

I guess you have very different standards than I do in terms of players capable of competing at a senior international level. Those three players have had looks and didn't stick. Jordan had an outstanding year but is he good enough to compete for a spot against even our relatively poor striker squad today? He's probably worth another look, but to say that Kindel and Valente had good years is really being generous. They each had 1 goal and 2 assists over the entire USL Div 1 season. Nash had a much better year than either Klein or Valente. Perhaps he should be the star attraction in your 'Cap a Cap' campaign.

But to put this back on topic, nobody has convinced me that the Duze's statements about developing Cdn talent were nothing more than lip service.

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Ok Ed, I had a reply in mind, something along the lines of sticking to the topic, but c'mon. Cap a Cap campaign? I'm sorry I have the audacity not to agree with you on your 'Hate a Cap' campaign, but this organization is building a stadium, running a pro team with a reserve system and amateur program, running and developing Women's and Girls teams and has (OK, one legitimate NT prospect - Harmse)some possible future NT players. Its nesting ground of veterans are developing as coaches - Dasovic, Corrazin, Watson & Neil in the Canadian system. Tell me what other organization, save maybe the Impact are doing more for Canadian Soccer?

Tell you what Ed, you and I have been on this board a long time, sound like we are about the same age and share a passion for soccer. Let's agree to disagree on this point. Look forward to the return of your Canucks in Germany thread.

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No problem. I do really think that Vancouver is the best soccer franchise market in North America. I think they have a long history recently of quite gladly accepting mediocrity. The fact that so few players move on from Vancouver to better things (from a playing perspective) is only one aspect of that.

Don't take my discontent with the status quo there and nationwide personally Ivan.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

I think [Vancouver has] a long history recently of quite gladly accepting mediocrity. The fact that so few players move on from Vancouver to better things (from a playing perspective) is only one aspect of that.

Is that suppposed to be an insult against the Whitecaps?

Sorry, but only fans of crap clubs that never win anything actually give a toss about players "moving on to better things".

Do you think Liverpool supporters were happy when Michael Owen went to Real Madrid? Do you think Fulham fans were giddy about their club when Van der Sar left for Manchester United?

Seems all the Canadian cities with crap clubs export the most players overseas.... well, duh. Who wants to play for the Mustangs or Lynx?

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You can take it how you want. But as for your last point, I would argue that the Montreal Impact export quite a few players overseas. They are anything but a crap club and in some respects have supplanted Vancouver as the best soccer club in Canada. You can have players come through your system and move on to bigger things and still be successful as a club.

And as to your last sentence, I would imagine there's lots of young Cdn players who would love to play for the Lynx, or the Mustangs if they are resurrected. It's all about opportunities.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

They are anything but a crap club and in some respects have supplanted Vancouver as the best soccer club in Canada.

I would argue that Montreal has supplanted Vancouver in all areas.

Of course, with the rumoured 20,000+ stadium being built in Vancouver, this may change, but right now Montreal is more successful on the field, at the gate, at developing players for the national team (which shouldn't be a big concern for a club, but is still a gauge of success), and with their stadium situation (plans revealed, deadlines, set, etc... like I said before this could change once the Caps make their rumoured annpuncement).

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by Ed

No problem. I do really think that Vancouver is the best soccer franchise market in North America. I think they have a long history recently of quite gladly accepting mediocrity. The fact that so few players move on from Vancouver to better things (from a playing perspective) is only one aspect of that.

Don't take my discontent with the status quo there and nationwide personally Ivan.

Just want to say Ed that this is what I see as well. The Caps are thinking incorrectly about their place in the soccer world. The most a modest club can do, and especially from a 2nd division (where winning the championship has relative significance, though it is fun for fans and players), is develop young players and proudly see them move on to better things. The Lynx do this more effectively than the Caps, (though they should at least try to get some more cash doing so to help out the team in terms of results, though sometimes a badly run club will fail that way, so be it.)

Indeed this is mostly what lower division clubs do, they entertain their fans, and allow them to see future stars, though sure, a few former ones in there can be interesting. I am proud to have seen Beardsly and Grobelaar in a Caps uniform, before they made it as world stars. That, in retrospect, is more satisfying for the club than having signed Rudi Krol. I think it is still the case, but the Caps don't seem to be willing to risk results, and some not that young players who could learn and grow are playing reserves or are on the bench while the geriatric ward goes out to have something to laugh about with the Duze over drinks after the game.

Or, sorry to have to add this, the young American "stars"; since I actually chatted at length with a few when my kid was at a Caps camp this summer I can say they are nice fellows, are dedicated to what they do, but they have no sense of what Vancouver as a soccer town means, or even less Canada for that matter, they are basically clueless Yanks. And for me it is quite a bit harder in most cases -not all- for me to really connect with them as a fan.

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quote:Originally posted by Richard

Does the Montreal Impact organisation include a full range youth program along the lines of the European club model, do they also operate top level women's teams?

Nope they don't, instead they chose to support the regionnal associations with the help of the Québec government. It seems to work just fine.
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quote:Originally posted by Kurosawa

Nope they don't, instead they chose to support the regionnal associations with the help of the Québec government. It seems to work just fine.

I am glad to know they support the regional associations, in what practical way do they do this?
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quote:Originally posted by Richard

I am glad to know they support the regional associations, in what practical way do they do this?

Camps, public practices, discount prices for games, etc.

While the Impact should try to get into the W-League, I don't think that the Whitecaps Academy is necessarilly more effective than the NTC or select teams in Quebec. If the players are scouted as the best and get in without paying, then you might be on to something. Until then, the academy seems more like a big soccer camp.

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Hey, I was not being critical, just interested, although my questions were initially prompted by the debate about which was the 'better' franchise. There are too many subjective criteria to make any kind of direct comparison really plus of course with taxpayers money involved, the Impact don't have anything like the same freedom the Whitecaps do. In addition to their own youth program the Whitecaps do also run the local district development centre for the BCSA/CSA out of the facilities at SFU that the club (Kerfoot) paid for.

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quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Sorry, but only fans of crap clubs that never win anything actually give a toss about players "moving on to better things".

Do you think Liverpool supporters were happy when Michael Owen went to Real Madrid? Do you think Fulham fans were giddy about their club when Van der Sar left for Manchester United?

Seems all the Canadian cities with crap clubs export the most players overseas.... well, duh. Who wants to play for the Mustangs or Lynx?

Well I do think a number of Calgary Storm fans were quite happy to hear Lars was signed by Tottenham and same when young Nik got signed by 1860 Muenchen.

But they (myself included) were supporters of an admittedly inferior club (maybe even 'crap', as you state), unlike the Whitecaps who are on par with EPL or Bundesliga 1 clubs based on your examples.

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You have to remember that when the Caps beat Sunderland they were at the high point of their year, and those Gordie wannabes were still in pre season form. So its not really comparable. I doubt the Whitecaps would win more than a single game in the EPL, after all the couldn't even beat the rubbish that is richmond ;)

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It's important to have the Whitecaps develop a young player in their youth program that then makes the senior squad. It would realy help propel the academy (which is also a huge revenue booster for the club)

By the way...I went to one of the Whitecaps stadium sneak peeks recently. This will be better than anything they eventually come up with in Toronto, and it's miles ahead of the Montreal Park. It will be the single greatest soccer specific stadium in North America, period.

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quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

It will be the single greatest soccer specific stadium in North America, period.

I keep hearing this, and hopefully it will be the case when it opens.

Right now I think the HDC in LA holds this honour, although I have a feeling that Chicago Fire's Bridgeview complex and the MetroStars stadium in Harrison, NJ will surpass it, if the artist's renderings are any indication.

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