Match Thread: June 19, 2019 - York9 FC v FC Edmonton

[ironcub14]

My personal opinion at the moment is that downtown Sauga is the best spot for a CPL club in the GTA. I would be highly skeptical of almost any other locations in the GTA at this point, including the Durham Region, such as Pickering.

The thing that drives a professional club at this level of play is civic pride. And stadium location and quality.

[zeelaw]

I'm getting worried for them.

The Beer Garden (part of the advertised experience) disappeared, maybe it's back on Saturday?  Even for a Wednesday night the attendance was awful (weather was amazing) and the game itself will hardly bring back any walk ups.

I do really enjoy the SS experience there.  The stands are so close to the pitch and it's a pretty fun vibe.

To attach to the civic pride thing.  I live in Richmond Hill which is basically beside the stadium in terms of York Region, but it still takes me 30 minutes to drive there.  I can't imagine anyone from Markham, Aurora, Newmarket traveling for these games often, especially considering transit isn't the same as Toronto. Also the growing nickname "The Region" sounds like a radio station name, which I think it is.

I love "lower league" and all the opportunity it offers, but I'm really scared for them now and losing this.

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by zeelaw

[Ams1984]

42 minutes ago, zeelaw said:

I'm getting worried for them.

The Beer Garden (part of the advertised experience) disappeared, maybe it's back on Saturday?  Even for a Wednesday night the attendance was awful (weather was amazing) and the game itself will hardly bring back any walk ups.

I do really enjoy the SS experience there.  The stands are so close to the pitch and it's a pretty fun vibe.

To attach to the civic pride thing.  I live in Richmond Hill which is basically beside the stadium in terms of York Region, but it still takes me 30 minutes to drive there.  I can't imagine anyone from Markham, Aurora, Newmarket traveling for these games often, especially considering transit isn't the same as Toronto. Also the growing nickname "The Region" sounds like a radio station name, which I think it is.

I love "lower league" and all the opportunity it offers, but I'm really scared for them now and losing this.

 

For what it’s worth, I live in Aurora and go to every game. I do agree that the ‘York Region’ thing is a challenge, but not necessarily the problem. I think that attendances definitely need improving, but the club is very unlikely to be folding any time soon in my opinion. I’m pretty sure that all of the owners went into this with eyes wide open. These are serious business people, and though they won’t carry a financial loser forever, it’s not hard to break even in this league. I think they’ll get there eventually. 

[ironcub14]

20 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

For what it’s worth, I live in Aurora and go to every game. I do agree that the ‘York Region’ thing is a challenge, but not necessarily the problem. I think that attendances definitely need improving, but the club is very unlikely to be folding any time soon in my opinion. I’m pretty sure that all of the owners went into this with eyes wide open. These are serious business people, and though they won’t carry a financial loser forever, it’s not hard to break even in this league. I think they’ll get there eventually. 

I agree with most of what you're saying. The only thing is, these mega-rich people and companies all got to where they are because of how ruthless they are with their primary businesses. Soccer is a play-thing for them, and they can swallow some losses, but despite all that, the number of people coming out to Wednesday games is becoming a flag that's hard to ignore.

I think the York Region thing is allowing us hardcore soccer fans in the York Region and North York to become really attached to this club. But I think we lose some casuals in Vaughan that might have got attached to this club if it was marketed for Vaughan instead. The thing is, the marketing budget has been so weak overall from the club that we aren't really even having a chance to find out what is really the case. And with the stadium being in North York, it can't even be marketed for Vaughan anyways.

And putting a team in the burbs is the type of MLS 1.0 things I thought the league was trying to avoid overall if it could. The suburbs simply have far more families that have family obligations and their own activities and the like.

Edited June 20, 2019 by ironcub14

[Rocket Robin]

June 21, 2019 @CPLsoccer audio of @York9FC vs @FCEdmontonNow post game press conferences with both coaches are on my website. (in case @onesoccer hasn't posted).

http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports19/19york111.htm

[CDNFootballer]

14 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

At the very least the contrasting fortunes of Halifax and Y9 should guide future expansion decisions. The main emphasis in Quebec should probably be on Quebec City rather than Laval, there are more reasons to be upbeat about Saskatoon rather than Surrey at the moment out west, other outer GTA markets like Durham and Mississauga should probably be asked to demonstrate the interest is genuinely there with a season ticket deposit drive, etc.

Way too early to make that conclusion IMHO, and CPL as Canada's D1 has to be in the major media markets of the country if its to solidify itself as the nations top tier and grow in stature as a pro league. Think a Surrey/Fraser Valley CPL club could and will be a strong addition to the league if done right.

[Stanley]

Where would a Surrey/Fraser Valley team play?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

That's the $64,000 question that led to emergence of Pacific FC. Swangard is probably the best bet for a lower Mainland BC alternative to the Whitecaps, but I think somebody posted on here that the city of Burnaby wasn't keen on having a pro team in there again.

9 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Way too early to make that conclusion IMHO, and CPL as Canada's D1 has to be in the major media markets of the country if its to solidify itself as the nations top tier and grow in stature as a pro league...

It actually really isn't too early to form a relatively clear picture of what markets are likely to work best, although season ticket retention rates are going to be another very important indicator towards the end of this year or early next year. MLS is the de facto top tier of the sport in Canada and the relative interest in TFC and York 9 provides very strong evidence that it is going to be very difficult for CanPL teams to thrive in the immediate vicinity of an MLS team. We have moved out of the stage of aspiration and into cold hard reality. 

[CDNFootballer]

Swangard/Burnaby would be too close to the caps immediate vicinity to work, have to have more distance than that but still be in the greater metro area of Vancouver like Surrey/Fraser Valley.

The Metro areas of Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal are big enough to support more than one club.

MLS may be the USA's top tier league that 3 Canadian teams are in at the moment, but over the years CPL will grow as Canada's Division 1 year by year just as MLS grew over the last 20 plus years.

18 hours ago, Kwar said:

Where would a Surrey/Fraser Valley team play?

The bridgeview area is being heavily pushed for development and there has been discussion of a stadium there possibly, there's also a couple of others that have been discussed as locations for a popup or permanent stadium. There are groups interested in bringing a CPL club to greater Vancouver and things are happening in the background to make that come about.

[Stanley]

Shame about Burnaby.  Swangard would be a great CPL stadium.  I was just watching some old Whitecaps highlights from Swangard the other day on YouTube.  Miss those days.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

12 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

...MLS may be the USA's top tier league that 3 Canadian teams are in at the moment, but over the years CPL will grow as Canada's Division 1 year by year just as MLS grew over the last 20 plus years...

 MLS is likely to continue to grow in stature as well and will hence almost certainly remain Canada's de facto top soccer league for the foreseeable future and is likely to continue to be a much more significant contributor to the CMNT roster than CanPL.

It would be unhealthy and potentially highly damaging financially for the league to tilt at windmills and obsess over challenging that reality in an NASL sort of way when there are lots of smaller markets readily available that can try to emulate Halifax. The success of MLS in Canada has actually helped to drive pro soccer forward elsewhere, because people want their own local version of TFC when an MLS team isn't right on their doorstep as it is with York 9.

It will be interesting to see how far out you need to be for a CanPL franchise to work easily. My guess would be around Abottsford in Fraser valley terms and unfortunately it doesn't have the sort of population that Hamilton or K/W does.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CDNFootballer]

On 6/22/2019 at 2:01 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 MLS is likely to continue to grow in stature as well and will hence almost certainly remain Canada's de facto top soccer league for the foreseeable future and is likely to continue to be a much more significant contributor to the CMNT roster than CanPL.

It would be unhealthy and potentially highly damaging financially for the league to tilt at windmills and obsess over challenging that reality in an NASL sort of way when there are lots of smaller markets readily available that can try to emulate Halifax. The success of MLS in Canada has actually helped to drive pro soccer forward elsewhere, because people want their own local version of TFC when an MLS team isn't right on their doorstep as it is with York 9.

It will be interesting to see how far out you need to be for a CanPL franchise to work easily. My guess would be around Abottsford in Fraser valley terms and unfortunately it doesn't have the sort of population that Hamilton or K/W does.

CPL won't be challenging MLS in an NASL sort of way, most of their clubs will be in non MLS market areas and direct challenges won't be made. Instead CPL clubs in the major media markets of Greater/Metro Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto that are needed for Canada's D1 will be far enough distanced from the MLS clubs and carve out their own base in city's large enough to support 2 pro clubs with their large populations.

USA's MLS will do their thing, CPL will as well do they're own thing and grow Canada's D1, and their goal isn't to be a small market low budget league but a strong D1 that grows from year one to become something bigger and better as time goes on.

Halifax's success does not guarantee similar success's in other similar sized markets just as York9's performance doesn't mean CPL clubs in Greater Vancouver or Montreal  would have the same level of support/success they have shown so far.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Pacific's latest crowd against FCE should help allay any fears about smaller markets given their inability to fill the reduced capacity in Langford was the possible counter argument to what's happening in Halifax. My argument is mainly that they should and are also highly likely to be more keen on repeating the strategies that appear to be working out best for them, because that's the rational thing to do. It still makes sense to do something like the Saskatoon Summer Soccer Series rather than going into a market cold, however.

If Y9 was selling out and Halifax and Pacific were really struggling on crowds, then Mississauga, Durham, Laval and Surrey would be looking very good as the next set of markets right now and Saskatoon would look like a waste of time. What I was suggesting would be sensible on the large metro suburban teams would be to have season ticket drives to prove there is interest. The response on Y9 when that was done was a red flag indicator that there was no huge enthusiasm for the team. CanPL needs to avoid having multiple teams like that.

[ironcub14]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Pacific's latest crowd against FCE should help allay any fears about smaller markets given their inability to fill the reduced capacity in Langford was the possible counter argument to what's happening in Halifax. My argument is mainly that they should and are also highly likely to be more keen on repeating the strategies that appear to be working out best for them, because that's the rational thing to do. It still makes sense to do something like the Saskatoon Summer Soccer Series rather than going into a market cold, however.

If Y9 was selling out and Halifax and Pacific were really struggling on crowds, then Mississauga, Durham, Laval and Surrey would be looking very good as the next set of markets right now and Saskatoon would look like a waste of time. What I was suggesting would be sensible on the large metro suburban teams would be to have season ticket drives to prove there is interest. The response on Y9 when that was done was a red flag indicator that there was no huge enthusiasm for the team. CanPL needs to avoid having multiple teams like that.

This is definitely not the right thread for this discussion lol, but I would actually say that Mississauga, Laval and Surrey are markets that CPL hasn't tried yet that I do think could be a moderate-to-good success. The reason I say that is that these are the 3 cities within the Big 3 CMAs that can stand as a city on its own. I wouldn't say the same about Vaughan or Pickering, although Vaughan is definitely trying. The mainstream hasn't really responded en masse, but the supporters have been amazing.

[CDNFootballer]

Surrey/Fraser Valley will do fine and Missisauga and Laval as well if done right with a strong and capable ownership group making the right decisions, which is the main key.

Pacific (my club) has had good and poor attendances in its 4 games so far, 2 at just a bit over 2K. They're closer to York9 than Halifax as far as attendance with Pacific avg roughly 3.5K and York roughly 3K while Halifax is near capacity avg close to 6K.

Too early with the small data samples from this season on attendance to make simplistic analysis of markets that will and will not work at this point. League's have their shining stars but like FC Cincinatti was far and above all other USL teams Halifax's success doesn't mean other 400K plus markets in Canada will be as successful.