CANADIAN HYPOCRICY

[Robert]

11 minutes ago, Robert said:

12) Asmir BEGOVIC - born in Trebinje, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Yes, he was on the bench for the last match, with Canada already long before having clinched last place. Better to play Lars, than "Cap-Tie" a young player in a meaningless match. Thanks Dale!

[harrycoyster]

18 minutes ago, Robert said:

Back in 2008:

Group 2

Team   Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts  Honduras 6 4 0 2 9 5 +4 12  Mexico 6 3 1 2 9 6 +3 10  Jamaica 6 3 1 2 6 6 0 10  Canada 6 0 2 4 6 13 −7 2

Canada  – 1 – 2 1 – 1 2 – 2 Honduras  3 – 1 – 2 – 0 1 – 0 Jamaica  3 – 0 1 – 0 – 1 – 0 Mexico  2 – 1 2 – 1 3 – 0 –

Okay, would it have made a difference if you added those three players, and gave up the following 12 players:

1) Mike KLUKOWSKI - born in Amstetten, Austria

2) Tomasz RADZINSKI - born in Poznan, Poland

3) Daniel IMHOF - born in Wil, Switzerland

4) Ali GERBA - born in Yaounde, Cameroon

5) Iain HUME - born in Edinburgh, United Kingdom

6) Dejan JAKOVIC - born in Karlovac, Croatia

7) Kevin HARMSE - born in Johannesburg, South Africa

8) Chris POZNIAK - born in Krakow, Poland

9) Charles GBEKE - born in Abidjan, Cote d'Ivoire

10) Andrzej ORNOCH - born in Warsaw, Poland

11) Simeon JACKSON - born in Kingston, Jamaica

12) Asmir BEGOVIC - born in Trebinje, Bosnia and Herzegovina

 

Yup, it's a zero-sum game. The "but if we got ALL the dual nationals argument" is even more annoying. If everybody in that group got ALL their dual-nationals Jamaica would have been unstoppable and we still don't get out of the group.

[jpg75]

I make that trade every day of the week, Robert. Especially if it weakens Jamaica dramatically and affects the Hondurans (Nunez who scored both goala in MTL and Espinoza).

[Robert]

9 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

I make that trade every day of the week, Robert. Especially if it weakens Jamaica dramatically and affects the Hondurans (Nunez who scored both goala in MTL and Espinoza).

Gerba with 2 goals, and Radzinski with 1 goal, combined for half of the Canadian goal tally. It's debatable whether or not the three players you picked would have equaled or surpassed that total. What remains an indisputable fact, however, is that you need to score goals in international competitions to progress, which is something Canada has never been very successful at, beyond, of course, preliminary round matches against tiny volcanic-rock nations in the Caribbean , and even then we have struggled at times.

[jpg75]

49 minutes ago, Robert said:

Gerba with 2 goals, and Radzinski with 1 goal, combined for half of the Canadian goal tally. It's debatable whether or not the three players you picked would have equaled or surpassed that total.

Maybe not, but they would have upgraded our midfield and the replacements at forward were just as good (Occean was odd man out).

[General Apathy]

57 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

I totally get the antipathy towards OH and you have captured the reasons very nicely with that post. But the whole saga seems to have been much more complicated than OH just choosing a better team. It seems to me that if the situation had been handled differently we could have seen OH play for Canada. But that part seems to be forgotten.

I believe the fact that his dad is English was a much bigger factor in his decision than anything the CSA did/didn't do. 

8 hours ago, Robert said:

Is hate something that is tolerated and promoted in Canadian society? Do we condone those who vilify and persecute others? Are those the values and standards you teach to your kids, if you have any? Is that kind of behavior not illegal in this country? Personally, I would never support any organization, at whatever level, whether the Canadian Men's National Team, the Vancouver Whitecaps or even the Victoria Highlanders, that tolerates any standard of hatred in the stands, and I would certainly not consider taking a young impressionable person into such an environment. Now I'm sure that you don't wear KKK bed sheets Ted, and that you only suffer mildly from a case of misguided- slightly hypocritical-Canadian-trying-to-act-like-a-European-hooligan syndrome, right?  

It's definitely illegal to wear bedsheets and hate OH in this country.  I shall report ted to the authorities right away!

[Bison44]

I dont know what you want us to say.  Hi, my name is Bison and I dabble in hypocrisy....is that good enough??  I cheer Arfield, Forrest, Bunbury, Borjan, Johnson, Davies etc that choose to play for us.  I reserve my highest scorn for certain players that really broke my heart, or hurt the program, or played for our youth teams until they were able to go elsewhere.  But I am a fan (ie fanatic), I have lots of strange beliefs about sports.  I think I can help the team by cheering in my living room.  I also Hate Conrad black and his baloney giving up his citizenship to join the house of lords etc.  I still have a bone to pick with Steve Smith for that own goal as well.  Its sports, its being a fan...it doesnt have to make sense.  

[SuperCanuck]

Why is this even a question?

Without having read any other replies to this (sorry), I felt compelled to answer this, because I'm really tired of seeing this sort of thing from people who can't see the obvious difference.

The Whore and De Guzman, etc. could have and would have made a huge difference to our national team had they decided to play for us. Not just the team that they would have played for at the time, but in the future as well by giving our national team a better image by most likely performing better, and thus encouraging more players to play for us and more Canadians to give our team a fair shot instead of supporting some foreign team where their grandparents or neighbour or whoever is from.

Players who have been persuaded to play for Canada almost never leave some other team in the situation described above.  If Joe Average hockey player can't make the Canadian team and goes to play for Germany, no one in Canada cares, because it's not going to make a difference to us, but he will help Germany.  

 

 

[Robert]

It's pretty obvious who on this board respects "freedom of choice" and those that don't. People from all over the world have come to Canada because we as a society believe every individual in this country has the right and freedom to make choices as long as those choices do not affect others adversely. Of course, there will always be a small percentage of individuals in every society that go against the flow. Ones who do not believe and respect the choices that others make, like smoking pot, having an abortion, or ... the list is endless. How would you like it if someone publicly called you a whore because they didn't like the choice you made? But, those same individuals think that similar choices that work in their favour are alright. Some of them even goes as far as to tell me what hypocricy means.  For those who have asked, what's the point of this thread? Well, one of the points is that it has exposed those who do not believe in freedom of choice. Hey, if the shoe fits ...  

[Unnamed Trialist]

The goof was even interviewed in his early England camps and FAKED an English accent, when he'd never lived in England in his life, he went from Alberta to Bavaria. I mean, he's disgusting, can't stomach the guy. He is so false, from top to bottom. He takes the cake for dishonesty and falsehood.

Signed: a fan who thought it was perfectly justified and enormously satisfying to thrown pigs heads, half-eaten sandwiches, whisky bottles and small electronic devices at Figo after he screwed Barça and moved to Real Madrid. I still don't know how we did not have Camp Nou closed for that, but it would have been worth it.

[Unnamed Trialist]

repeat post

[Unnamed Trialist]

repeat, glitch there, sorry

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The goof was even interviewed in his early England camps and FAKED an English accent, when he'd never lived in England in his life, he went from Alberta to Bavaria. I mean, he's disgusting, can't stomach the guy. He is so false, from top to bottom. He takes the cake for dishonesty and falsehood.

Signed: a fan who thought it was perfectly justified and enormously satisfying to thrown pigs heads, half-eaten sandwiches, whisky bottles and small electronic devices at Figo after he screwed Barça and moved to Real Madrid. I still don't know how we did not have Camp Nou closed for that, but it would have been worth it.

I just want to preserve this post before it gets edited.

[BradMack]

13 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I dont know what you want us to say.  Hi, my name is Bison and I dabble in hypocrisy....is that good enough??  I cheer Arfield, Forrest, Bunbury, Borjan, Johnson, Davies etc that choose to play for us.  I reserve my highest scorn for certain players that really broke my heart, or hurt the program, or played for our youth teams until they were able to go elsewhere.  But I am a fan (ie fanatic), I have lots of strange beliefs about sports.  I think I can help the team by cheering in my living room.  I also Hate Conrad black and his baloney giving up his citizenship to join the house of lords etc.  I still have a bone to pick with Steve Smith for that own goal as well.  Its sports, its being a fan...it doesnt have to make sense.  

Your name is Bison?

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

I just want to preserve this post before it gets edited.

So glad you are here to keep me honest.

 

[ted]

On 2/8/2018 at 9:56 PM, Robert said:

It's pretty obvious who on this board respects "freedom of choice" and those that don't.

Well that's a laugh. Nice attempt to stifle debate and paint your opponents as evil.

I totally respect freedom of choice. That in no way prevents me from reacting to, judging, or disapproving of said choice.

That is what freedom of expression is all about.

[Robert]

2 hours ago, ted said:

Well that's a laugh. Nice attempt to stifle debate and paint your opponents as evil.

I totally respect freedom of choice. That in no way prevents me from reacting to, judging, or disapproving of said choice.

That is what freedom of expression is all about.

I totally agree with you, and that is why I'm free to choose which soccer club I will support and buy a pair season tickets from. It obviously won't be a club that condones fans who express hatred for opposing players. Like what kinda twisted concept of sportsmanship is that? If I wanted that kinda of soccer experience, I'd move to San Pedro Sula. So if that's sort of attitude that people promoting the Victoria Highlanders have, well thank you very much but that's not the kinda of "reaching out to the community experience that I'm looking for.

No matter how strong my passion is for the club or team that I support, if the opposing team has a player in its line-up with far superior talent than any of the players on my team, do I "hate" that player, or am I going to admire and appreciate his superior skill. I have had the privilege to see many great players (Cruijff and Maradona, just to name a couple) play live on numerous occasions, and they didn't play for the club or teams (Feijenoord, Holland and Canada) that I support (well actually Cruijff did play for Feijenoord for one season at the end of his career). Did I hate them? To me that's the dumbest fucking question you could ask me. Fuck NO!!! Man, I got to see Cruijff and Maradona play live! Many times. I have even applauded their brilliance when they did something that totally blew me away. When all I could say was "WOW!"

[ted]

Robert, if you really think that cartoonish "hatred" as expressed in chants, on signs, and discussed on message boards is actual, visceral, violent hate then you are sorely mistaken. This is not in any way serious. "Taking the piss" is a phrase you would do well to research with all your skill you have developed as a researcher.

I don't actually hate Owen Hargreaves as a person, I don't know him. As a player on the pitch however I can "hate" him and mock him to throw him off his game.

In the case of the Lake Side Buoys (a name BTW that "takes the piss" out of "serious" hooligans) we do not chant or sing anything racist, sexist or homophobic. We also have limited our swearing. We have never been shut down or asked to leave by the management of the Highlanders because we don't cross the line.

That doesn't mean we didn't boo and shout "traitor!" when a former player was introduced for the opposition last year. He smiled and laughed, and at the end of the game we gave him a round of applause which he returned.

You still haven't answered the question: what is the point of bringing this up again. It has ZERO relevance to anything at this point other than maybe a trivia quiz.

[ted]

20 hours ago, dsqpr said:

They are hypocrites and I for one intend to keep pointing it out!

And I will keep pointing out that it does not apply here,you are using the word incorrectly, and the continued incorrect usage only degrades and devalues the debate.

[ted]

18 hours ago, dsqpr said:

hy·poc·ri·sy

həˈpäkrəsē/

noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

    

   Thus a person who says it is wrong to play football for a country other than the one where you were born and grew up yet cheers for a player who does exactly that is a hypocrite.

 

<sigh> The only "moral standard" is that we support players who play for Canada. Anyone choosing not to play for Canada is, "the enemy".

Am I a hypocrite if I were to boo or taunt Alexis Sanchez because he has fucked off to ManURE for more money and a chance at Champions League next year? Apparently by your bizarre interpretation, ANY football fan who cheers for ANY team or ANY player is a "hypocrite". I don't understand how you can be on this hypocritical forum or watch this hypocritical game. 

The only way football is enjoyable as a spectator sport is caring which team wins IMO. Preferring those who play for your team to someone playing for another team is the "moral standard" that applies.

And again, of what utility or good purpose is this discussion? He-who-must-not-be-named hasn't mattered on the international stage for years. The rest of Canada and England have moved on. Why can't you?

[jpg75]

Ted's right. Seriously, who gives a fuck about Owen Hargreaves any more? Leave it to Robert to start a lame thread...

[ddoouugg]

[Robert]

18 hours ago, dsqpr said:

hy·poc·ri·sy

həˈpäkrəsē/

noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Thus a person who says it is wrong to play football for a country other than the one where you were born and grew up yet cheers for a player who does exactly that is a hypocrite.

Thanks for the above post dsqpr. Earlier on, in this thread, Ted felt the compelled to teach me the meaning of the word "hypocrisy" and he even went through the trouble of cutting out and pasting one definition of the word. A definition that suited his defense. News flash Ted, I know what the word "hypocrisy" means, and I pretty sure everyone else on this board does too, as there appeared to be no confusion, except for yourself, of course. I also know that many words in the English language, like "hypocrisy," have more than one meaning, depending on how it is used. Thanks to dsqpr, Ted now knows that too.

However, aside from his limited comprehension of the English language, one of Ted's other challenges appears to be that he is constitutionally incapable of recanting something he said. A simple, "hey, I said something stupid, and I'm sorry," would have been sufficient and everybody moves on, no harm done. Unfortunately, Ted has chosen to continue flapping his lips on a mute debate, and he has every right to continue doing so.  

As far as the name calling of players like Owen Hargreaves is concerned, that type of behavior does not unite people, instead it divides people. It is one thing to cheer and boo at a match, however, character assassination is quite a different ball of wax. What if one of Owen's relatives or classmates follows this board. How would you feel about that kind of slander?

Last night (Feb. 14th), on CBC the National there was a feature on Brigette Lacquette, a First Nation's women who plays on the Canadian Women's Olympic Team. Her father was interviewed, and he tells about sitting in the stands and hearing an opposing player telling his daughter, "to go back to the reserve," and  calling her "a dirty little Indian." Here's the CBC National link, it takes a while to get to the story, but in my opinion it's worth the wait.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational

Posted February 6

LOL,  that's pretty funny. 

Anyone who plays for Canada is a hero, while anyone who could, and does not, is a traitor. Pretty simple "patriotism" and no "hypocrisy" involved.

I think you need to review the meaning of the word. 

hy·poc·ri·sy

həˈpäkrəsē/

noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

[ted]

5 hours ago, dsqpr said:

...people do not hate OH just because he plays for another team!

Huh?!? WTF are you talking about?  Now you are fucking delusional.

If he never played for ANY national team we would not be having this discussion.

FFS if he had never said he was going to play for Canada and then played for another country we would not be having this discussion.

You do understand that lots of "Canadians" have played for other countries and NONE have been the object of so much derision and contempt. Only Begovic came close but nobody talks about him anymore.

The Whore was a singular case and it felt like a betrayal because he lied to us. Why is that so hard for you and Robert to understand?

And still, no hypocrisy in any of the above.

[Bison44]

If we are all over it lets just let it end there ok?  Lets say that's that mattress man.