Non OPDL Players to National tryouts

[mmd]

The OSA has stated that no players will be selected in the Provincial a tryouts unless they are on an OPDL. Looks like that is all a lie. From the OPDL TWITTER....Nona verita made a comment that was interesting and putting out the question to the OSA....9 NON OPDL Players were selected, should they not be kicked off?    What are your thoughts. Are rules rules, or does the OSA change them when it suits them?

[rob.notenboom]

6 minutes ago, mmd said:

The OSA has stated that no players will be selected in the Provincial a tryouts unless they are on an OPDL. Looks like that is all a lie. From the OPDL TWITTER....Nona verita made a comment that was interesting and putting out the question to the OSA....9 NON OPDL Players were selected, should they not be kicked off?    What are your thoughts. Are rules rules, or does the OSA change them when it suits them?

Don't you want to get the best talent regardless of what club/program they're in?

[mmd]

Of course I do. Just letting you know what the OSA tells parents. They want the best in the OPDL which many can not afford, and have the clubs pay enormous fees to be in their Provincial League. Yet they take players from all over, which is what we want. How do you explain this to a parent who have spent a lot of money that was told their child will ONLY BE SCOUTED IN THE OPDL?

That is a legitimate question that the OSA will have to explain to these parents, do you not think so?

[rob.notenboom]

39 minutes ago, mmd said:

Of course I do. Just letting you know what the OSA tells parents. They want the best in the OPDL which many can not afford, and have the clubs pay enormous fees to be in their Provincial League. Yet they take players from all over, which is what we want. How do you explain this to a parent who have spent a lot of money that was told their child will ONLY BE SCOUTED IN THE OPDL?

That is a legitimate question that the OSA will have to explain to these parents, do you not think so?

Yes I see. Good point. 

 

A a friend of mine has his son in OPDL and it seems VERY expensive. 

[Soccerpro]

54 minutes ago, mmd said:

Of course I do. Just letting you know what the OSA tells parents. They want the best in the OPDL which many can not afford, and have the clubs pay enormous fees to be in their Provincial League. Yet they take players from all over, which is what we want. How do you explain this to a parent who have spent a lot of money that was told their child will ONLY BE SCOUTED IN THE OPDL?

That is a legitimate question that the OSA will have to explain to these parents, do you not think so?

Does OPDL cost more or less than SAAC academies?

[Levi Oakey]

There has always been confusion around this. It clearly says in the talent pathway that non-OPDL and ORNCA players can be chosen. But I heard a ton of OPDL coaches walking around and telling people it WAS the only way, which is junk. They were poaching to cover their high costs.

[mmd]

48 minutes ago, Soccerpro said:

Does OPDL cost more or less than SAAC academies?

I don't know what SAAC charges. I did go on a couple of the OPDL team sites. There doesn't seem to be any consistency with club fees. They are as low as $2700 and as high as $4400, why the big difference I am not aware of.

[jpg75]

What a joke. If i had a talented child and lived in Mississauga, Brampton or Scarborough (basically the hotbeds of GTA soccer who have little to no rep. in OPDL) i wouldn't even bother with the OPDL or Provincial teams if that is true. Peel regional soccer league is a higher level than playing the likes of Kleinburg, Aurora, North Toronto, Whitby and whatever other garbage clubs were selected for OPDL.

[Levi Oakey]

My understanding was the OPDL was to bring along a higher level of play across the province. They sought out ORNCA clubs to do this, but then ended up excluding them for political reasons.

So yes, you are probably better to stay at a top level non-OPDL club for now. Without SAAC clubs the League was essentially neutered.

[Saviola7]

My take on this, as I'm watching this very carefully - my son is U12 and OPDL starts at U13. First, some clarification:

-As welltoldtales said, it has always been true that non-OPDL players can be selected. It is my understanding that only OPDL players will be actively scouted, and thus a non-OPDL player will need a club/academy's technical director's recommendation for any sort of attention.

23 hours ago, jpg75 said:

What a joke. If i had a talented child and lived in Mississauga, Brampton or Scarborough (basically the hotbeds of GTA soccer who have little to no rep. in OPDL) i wouldn't even bother with the OPDL or Provincial teams if that is true. Peel regional soccer league is a higher level than playing the likes of Kleinburg, Aurora, North Toronto, Whitby and whatever other garbage clubs were selected for OPDL.

-Indeed their exclusion was an embarrassing omission in the whole thing. Still, with North Miss and Oakville coming on board, I think it's not as bad. In the Hershey league (a cross-district Peel/Halton/York/Toronto indoor league), Woodbridge is the strongest team by far and is an OPDL club.

On 2/27/2016 at 8:05 PM, Soccerpro said:

Does OPDL cost more or less than SAAC academies?

-Based on my estimates from a Sigma invitation, probably the same. Our team (Erin Mills) has scrimmaged against and have taken players from SAAC academies, and I'm not convinced they have a gold mine of talent. Maybe one or two players per team on the strongest teams, but there are a lot of academies out there that are pretty poor as far as the kids they have.

The way I see it is this. At any club or academy, you're going to have to rely on somebody in the infrastructure to advocate on your kids behalf to get noticed. You see this in the way Sigma arranges trials and sets up connections with US colleges for their players. The nice thing about OPDL is that at least for national/provincial programs you don't have shop your player (in principle). One way to go about it then is to go OPDL for a few years and then look to an academy to arrange something for the next step (see Kyle Bekker who was only at Sigma for 2 years).

As to the specific topic of the subject. Certainly for this year's U15 crop you should expect quite a mix between OPDL clubs and non-OPDL clubs since they represent the first year of the league. As more clubs join and it gains more credibility, perhaps the number of players from non-OPDL clubs will go down.

 

[Protega]

On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 6:39 PM, mmd said:

The OSA has stated that no players will be selected in the Provincial a tryouts unless they are on an OPDL. Looks like that is all a lie. From the OPDL TWITTER....Nona verita made a comment that was interesting and putting out the question to the OSA....9 NON OPDL Players were selected, should they not be kicked off?    What are your thoughts. Are rules rules, or does the OSA change them when it suits them?

Are parents actually upset about this?  If so, it sounds like they feel that if they've paid the right parties (i.e., the clubs the OSA told them to pay), their children should be considered for the national team?  Very messed up system when parents development plans for the children are based on the logic that if they've paid enough, the competition for national team spots should be limited to improve their chances.

There are definitely OPDL clubs that are telling people that the only way to get to the provincial and national teams.  In any case, isn't this a national camp for Ontario, such that the OSA would have no say who is invited?

I know a number of kids who have left academies and other clubs for this very reason, but aren't happy with the technical training they've been receiving compared to the programs they left.  So they actually pay for extra training elsewhere (and hide it from the OPDL club, which has a policy that you must spend your money with them).

Broken system. 

[Saviola7]

Why would you need extra training above and beyond OPDL? They're supposed to be training 4 times a week plus a match. Is that not enough?

A few more thoughts:

-OPDL coaches/clubs might be making erroneous promises, but make no mistake, for-profit academies make all sorts of claims when it comes to scholarships, pro trials, etc.

-What's broken about the system is that with the emergence of these academies, the talent is not at all concentrated. As Unnamed Trialist mentioned in another thread high competition is essential for player development. For a player in Peel-Halton, they could play in one of the 15 or so not-for-profit clubs (pre-U13) or 4 OPDL clubs (U13 and up), 6 SAAC academies, or over 14 non-recognised academies. Many of these academies don't have strict talent-based entry criteria, so those leagues are populated with teams that have one or two good players and that's all (note that there are good top-to-bottom teams, but that is certainly not the rule). True best-on-best competition is therefore lacking.

 

[Protega]

18 minutes ago, Saviola7 said:

Why would you need extra training above and beyond OPDL? They're supposed to be training 4 times a week plus a match. Is that not enough?

A few more thoughts:

-OPDL coaches/clubs might be making erroneous promises, but make no mistake, for-profit academies make all sorts of claims when it comes to scholarships, pro trials, etc.

-What's broken about the system is that with the emergence of these academies, the talent is not at all concentrated. As Unnamed Trialist mentioned in another thread high competition is essential for player development. For a player in Peel-Halton, they could play in one of the 15 or so not-for-profit clubs (pre-U13) or 4 OPDL clubs (U13 and up), 6 SAAC academies, or over 14 non-recognised academies. Many of these academies don't have strict talent-based entry criteria, so those leagues are populated with teams that have one or two good players and that's all (note that there are good top-to-bottom teams, but that is certainly not the rule). True best-on-best competition is therefore lacking.

 

In this case, the frequency of training is the same as they were receiving previously, but the parents feel the quality of training is below what they had before moving.  Could be specific to this situation based on where these players have come from and where they've gone too.  I'd be curious if this has been an issue elsewhere though.

[Unnamed Trialist]

The is simply elitist monopoly soccer. It's anti-trust, and is as good for soccer as elitist monopolies are for a society based on meritocracy.

If you have a financial barrier like this, you are eliminating a huge part of your potential talent pool. Then, if you are not competing in the same competition, everyone who can vs. everyone who can, you are eliminating the competitive pool. 

If you have no promotion and relegation, or at least some motivation for winning, for the club, the coaches and the players, you are never going to expose real talent. You are just living out a huge mirage.

As I see it, and thinking about basketball at high school, it would almost be better to strengthen school sports, seriously. Let the high schools select and train to beat their cross-city rival, hell, even let the fans fight in the parking lot afterwards. Eliminate all soccer moms and their male equivalents. At least the best kids in the school would be playing, the fans would care, and money and monopoly would not be sold as the path to excellence.

[Saviola7]

Perhaps the OSA should fund one or two need-based bursaries per club for OPDL.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Saviola7 said:

Perhaps the OSA should fund one or two need-based bursaries per club for OPDL.

You know, where I am the city used to fund a few per club, until the economics got worse, so there are less. Even for modest clubs, every federated club had the option to request funding and support for kids who could not pay the fees. From city budgets, mostly. And on top of that, almost all offer them on their own accord, I have spoken to many parents who have told me their kids were playing thanks to such grants.

IMHO, you should not even sanction a club charging the rates you are talking about for OPDL if they don't demonstrate they are doing this to certain minimums. The same for any elite league anywhere.

[mmd]

Rumour has it that a couple of teams have folded, both on the girls side as well as the boys, reasons unknown. I will take a guess that cost was a factor. Second guess would be parents are not buying into what the OSA is trying to sell. 

On the other hand, TFC Academy has rejoined. Does TFC being involved legitamize the OPDL? And will this open up the door for Private Academies?

[spidoo]

Guys, I was at an OPDL info session put on by the OSA TD. Very clearly he stated NO one from outside OPDL will be selected on a Provincial team. I believe this has also been made official in a written document. He also inferred that if you're not on the provincial team then no chance to be on National team. The 9 players from non OPDL teams were selected for the National ID camp. 3 other camps exist. So in the end this is the CSA and not OSA, so it has nothing to do with the official OPDL/Provincial team stance. In the end, out of the 4 id camps, a pool of kids are selected for the national team pool. In the past, very few(like 1 or 2) non professional academy players were selected for the National team pool and I assume that this will continue to be the case.  The provincial program is a joke anyways. My take on the stance taken by the OSA on this issue is that it likely stems from TFC coming back to the OPDL. ie. the provincial team will be the TFC academy.

From a boys perspective only this tells me that if your boy is in OPDL but not with TFC, then he will have just as much of a chance to be invited to an National ID camp with an academy as he does with an OPDL franchise.

The ideas behind the OPDL are solid. The execution of same horrible. Reduce the number of teams. Do it right but know that it's a 10 to 15 year project. They are treating it like it's a shorter term project. The new OSA TD is making some changes but they are mostly done to help teams fill roster spots. 

Sorry for the rant.

[Protega]

4 hours ago, spidoo said:

Guys, I was at an OPDL info session put on by the OSA TD. Very clearly he stated NO one from outside OPDL will be selected on a Provincial team. I believe this has also been made official in a written document. He also inferred that if you're not on the provincial team then no chance to be on National team. The 9 players from non OPDL teams were selected for the National ID camp. 3 other camps exist. So in the end this is the CSA and not OSA, so it has nothing to do with the official OPDL/Provincial team stance. In the end, out of the 4 id camps, a pool of kids are selected for the national team pool. In the past, very few(like 1 or 2) non professional academy players were selected for the National team pool and I assume that this will continue to be the case.  The provincial program is a joke anyways. My take on the stance taken by the OSA on this issue is that it likely stems from TFC coming back to the OPDL. ie. the provincial team will be the TFC academy.

How recent was this information session?  The reason I ask is that I recently checked the website of one club that was explicitly stating on their website that OPDL was the only way to the provincial and national teams, and they've since taken that statement off.  I'm pretty sure this came from above, because this club is very aggressive in its "recruiting", so I can't see them taking it down voluntarily.

I do agree that since it's a CSA camp, the OSA would have no say (and that the provincial program is useless).

[spidoo]

approx. 2 months ago. The OPDL rule is an official one. The statement the OSA TD made about not having a chance to make the National team if not on the Provincial is obviously not official. He was selling the product to parents and in some cases trying to scare them into believing it's the only choice. 

[spidoo]

On February 28, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Saviola7 said:

-As welltoldtales said, it has always been true that non-OPDL players can be selected. It is my understanding that only OPDL players will be actively scouted, and thus a non-OPDL player will need a club/academy's technical director's recommendation for any sort of attention.

-Indeed their exclusion was an embarrassing omission in the whole thing. Still, with North Miss and Oakville coming on board, I think it's not as bad. In the Hershey league (a cross-district Peel/Halton/York/Toronto indoor league), Woodbridge is the strongest team by far and is an OPDL club.

-Based on my estimates from a Sigma invitation, probably the same. Our team (Erin Mills) has scrimmaged against and have taken players from SAAC academies, and I'm not convinced they have a gold mine of talent. Maybe one or two players per team on the strongest teams, but there are a lot of academies out there that are pretty poor as far as the kids they have.

The way I see it is this. At any club or academy, you're going to have to rely on somebody in the infrastructure to advocate on your kids behalf to get noticed. You see this in the way Sigma arranges trials and sets up connections with US colleges for their players. The nice thing about OPDL is that at least for national/provincial programs you don't have shop your player (in principle). One way to go about it then is to go OPDL for a few years and then look to an academy to arrange something for the next step (see Kyle Bekker who was only at Sigma for 2 years).

Many academies both in SAAC or other leagues are simply built from disgruntled rep coaches and teams. I agree, many are not that good but some of the Sigma teams are as good or better than the better rep teams. Witnessed this at the last Showcase. Better for scouts is not winning so much as how the kids play. They also look at individuals and not teams. Sigma wasn't around when Kyle Bekker was young, although he spent more than 2 years playing there. Don't get me wrong, some OPDL clubs and teams are playing proper soccer(ie. burlington, NT girls and Vaughn) but majority are not. 

[Out of the Gate]

On 3/3/2016 at 3:52 PM, Protega said:

How recent was this information session?  The reason I ask is that I recently checked the website of one club that was explicitly stating on their website that OPDL was the only way to the provincial and national teams, and they've since taken that statement off.  I'm pretty sure this came from above, because this club is very aggressive in its "recruiting", so I can't see them taking it down voluntarily.

I do agree that since it's a CSA camp, the OSA would have no say (and that the provincial program is useless).

My daughter made the current provincial player pool and does not play OPDL.  All non-OPDL players needed a separate tryout and to be recommended for this by their TD.

[SF]

I have some "inside" knowledge, so to speak.  

Non-OPDL players are considered for the provincial pools, but as has been pointed out, it is a bit harder to get noticed.

That said, once a non-OPDL player is in the pool, they will be advised that they must attach to an OPDL club for the next season.  If they don't, they will be excluded from the pool.  There are certain exceptions, notably those around distance to the closest OPDL club (i.e. so as not to penalize a kid from, say, Windsor).

I also know that the players in provincial pools from that clubs that have been recently expelled from the league (most notably Woodbridge) have been advised to find new OPDL clubs should they wish to remain in the provincial pool.

[Kent]

43 minutes ago, SF said:

I also know that the players in provincial pools from that clubs that have been recently expelled from the league (most notably Woodbridge) have been advised to find new OPDL clubs should they wish to remain in the provincial pool.

Did this really happen? I'm not in any way connected with youth soccer, so all I know is what I read on these boards really. I checked the OSA website and they still have Woodbridge listed as a license holder, but they don't list the 2017 members (http://www.ontariosoccer.net/player/talented-pathway/opdl). Do you have any more details? What other clubs have been booted?

It's a disappointing development if true. Woodbridge is strong in the L1O level, and my hope was that they would be a leader among OPDL clubs in terms of adhering to the standards and of course developing pro players.

[to70]

1 hour ago, SF said:

t said, once a non-OPDL player is in the pool, they will be advised that they must attach to an OPDL club for the next season.  If they don't, they will be excluded from the pool.  There are certain exceptions, notably those around distance to the closest OPDL club (i.e. so as not to

This has been going for years. I remember when a good friend's son was on the youth national team he was told that he needed to move to a certain team to stay in the program. Pretty sure it was Glen Shields that he was told to go to.