jpg75 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 ^ Straith I can understand, but how can you pin blame for Haber and Gage leaving on Neindorf? Haber wasn't part of the Academy, didn't go out on loan to Germany and was sold to an English club. Then they let Gage go for nothing a full year after Neindorf was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Obviously the transfer market gets in the way, but off the top of my head: Cannon = Borjan/Hirschfeld Nolly = Stamatopolous Sylevstre = Lesveque Leathers = Ledgerwood Janicki = Straith Knight = Pozniak Wagner = McCallum Thorrington = Nakajima-Farran I like how you say "obviously the transfer market gets in the way" as if it's not a big deal. If Thorrington is equivalent to Issey, and you can get Thorrington for nothing while you'd have to pay a pretty sizable transfer fee for Issey, why in God's name would you not take Thorrington? Every single real Whitecap you listed on that list - all of them - cost a total of $0 in transfer spending. Sylvestre is a Residency graduate who just happens to be an American. I'd love to see more Canadian content on the Whitecaps. But criticizing the team for not buying Canadians when it can get free Americans is a little bass-ackwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I'm glad the Caps didn't bring in second division Canadians to make up the numbers. The only problem is that they brought in second division Americans instead! Other than DeMerit & Salgado, you could replace most of the US players with an equivalent player at an equivalent price. Obviously the transfer market gets in the way, but off the top of my head: Cannon = Borjan/Hirschfeld Nolly = Stamatopolous Sylevstre = Lesveque Leathers = Ledgerwood Janicki = Straith Knight = Pozniak Wagner = McCallum Thorrington = Nakajima-Farran There's certainly more to the analysis than this (Leathers & Salinas know each other, Duckett & Brovsky know each other, the USL guys know each other, etc.), but it would be nice to see a little more CanCon -especially when TFC has triple what we have. If we have a season ticket questionnaire this year, I'll definitely voice my displeasure in this area. Having said this, we need to give the new Acadeny a little more time as we lost our elite prospect in the 2007 class in Straith, and arguably Haber and Gage, to Europe as a result of Neindorf's export philosophy. Alderson is likely ready right now, and a couple more guys should emerge by the end of the PDL season. Even more to the point for me, is that Teitur and the supporters are literally in love with the USL guys, particularly Nolly, Knight, Janicki, and Khalfan. These are the guys most easily replaced by Canucks abroad, but I'm not sure this will happen any time soon. More likely they lose their jobs to PDL players coming up. And this will take awhile. On the bright side, I'd expect a few current non-Canucks to be naturalized eventually and perhaps participate with the MNT. 1. Why point out Khalfan can be replaced? The boy is getting huge schtick but his upside is massive. Keep him out of CM, put him on the wing in impact situations - he'll flourish. I am a big fan for his super-sub potential and want to hang on to him. I was hoping we could naturalize him, but he's played for Tanzania 25 times. 2. I agree - bringing in Ledgerwood or Hirsch would be great. But very expensive. They earn huge money in Europe compared to what they'd get in MLS. Also, the leagues they are in are far superior. I happen to have just watched Cluj play this morning. Excellent standard. The same goes for Levesque, Straith, Nakajima (maybe not level of play, but financially he is far better off). Is Pozzer better than Knight? Not convinced. How can you say Wagner=McCallum. Erm.....their positions are very very different. Another poster made appropriate comments re: Gage and Habs going to England. I agree with that post. Sorry, but you are way off it. These guys are better off in Europe, and so is Canada. Do the Caps need to improve on the bench? Yes. They are an expansion team remember! I don't think the USL guys they cast-off are better than the guys they brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Ouch, 3 posts in a row arguing YNWA's point is a bit of piling on! In his defence half of the Canadians he listed (Stama was released by Tromso, JLL is on loan and could be recalled, Ledgerwood is a squad player and Issey is by no means indispensible) could have been available back in the winter transfer window for free or a minimal fee and for an expansion team with a glut of allocation funds shouldn't have been hard to secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 ^And I did say arguably. The argument I would make on Gage and Haber is that it's only been less than a year that the club has come out and stated that the mission of the academy is to supply the first team and not transfer players to Europe. They both came through in a culture where going to Europe was the what the club encouraged. That was my point. With regard to the transfer market, they've been able to get Chiumiento, Hassli, and Rochat for free. These players are vastly superior to anyone on my list above, and Ledgerwood, Stama, Hirschfeld, Pozniak and McCallum have all been out of contract in the last 18 months. Lars only recently resigned and I doubt he's making more than Cannon's 200k. If Ledgerwood is making more than $50k I'll eat my socks but, regardless, Dunfield took a pay cut to come home and we'll never know if Ledgerwood would do the same as it looks like he was never asked. Caps supporters get all sensitive at the mention of a commitment to Canadian players. I understand, as TFC have done some dumb deals in this regard, but I think it's a fair criticism when Teitur only sees players right in front of his face and the remaining personnel decisions are left to an American. I don't have a problem with the current roster make-up, but I don't understand so called Voyageurs who will fly off the handle to defend it -while at the same time tossing whatever **** they can TFC in the same breath. And Khalfan is not a prospect. He's an MLS bench player at best. I think even Teitur realizes this as he didn't shake his hand or even look at him after the substitution yesterday. Thorrington, to close, is on $200k a year. That's not "nothing" in a salary cap league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I disagree with the comment about TFC making poor decisions in regards to Canadians. Brennan was one of our best players in our first couple years, DeRo obviously is the greatest red ever, JDG we know what he can do and he looked good vs. SJ, Sutton had some top matches and recently won the starting spot on the best club in MLS, Cann was a great pick up, Poz was deemed good enough to be selected by another MLS club (and then traded to another), likewise with Harmse, Reda and Braz played 8 and 13 league matches respectively but were somehow singled out as goats in a losing 30 match season lol, Canizalez meh I think he was just a test, Stamatopolous was good for us, Serioux was one of our best players, Lindsay was looking to be a member of the XI... So idk where this notion of failed Canadians comes from. Im sure there is a higher percentage of failed American players on American teams. If anything the failure for TFC in regards to Canadians has been missing out on guys such as Hainault, Jakovic and Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 ^I don't really disagree with your rebutal, but the $1.7m to Jules, and subsequent DeRo fall out, will be judged by most Vs as a poor piece of business. And many of these guys have been at the centre of locker room discontent which, I suspect, has not gone unnoticed by Tommy Soehn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I disagree with the comment about TFC making poor decisions in regards to Canadians. Brennan was one of our best players in our first couple years, DeRo obviously is the greatest red ever, JDG we know what he can do and he looked good vs. SJ, Sutton had some top matches and recently won the starting spot on the best club in MLS, Cann was a great pick up, Poz was deemed good enough to be selected by another MLS club (and then traded to another), likewise with Harmse, Reda and Braz played 8 and 13 league matches respectively but were somehow singled out as goats in a losing 30 match season lol, Canizalez meh I think he was just a test, Stamatopolous was good for us, Serioux was one of our best players, Lindsay was looking to be a member of the XI... So idk where this notion of failed Canadians comes from. Im sure there is a higher percentage of failed American players on American teams. If anything the failure for TFC in regards to Canadians has been missing out on guys such as Hainault, Jakovic and Johnson. My god, you've got your rose-coloured ones on today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Explain? ^ How exactly have Canadians on TFC been poor decisions? Last season Frei, Attakora, DeRo and Cann were the 4 TFC players who had good seasons to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Explain? ^ How exactly have Canadians on TFC been poor decisions? Last season Frei, Attakora, DeRo and Cann were the 4 TFC players who had good seasons to me.. I think there is a perception - that might be correct - that after the first season Canadians were an endangered species at TFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Explain? ^ How exactly have Canadians on TFC been poor decisions? Last season Frei, Attakora, DeRo and Cann were the 4 TFC players who had good seasons to me.. They haven't made the playoffs and showed absolutely no heart the last two seasons. De Rosario was the cancer in the dressing room. JdG has been but a shadow of the player that played in Spain. Sutton has not won any starting spot with NYRB. Attakora is just not that good (yet?). Poz had a cup of coffee with 'another MLS club'. The ONLY Cdn who has met or surpassed expectations with TFC is Cann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Sutton didn't meet expectations? And yes he did win the starting spot from Coundoul out of preseason and is now sidelined with a concussion. None of us here were inside the Toronto dressing room so theres no use debating off field issues, DeRo SURPASSED expectations on the pitch absolutely. A career year at 32 on a team with no firepower is proof of that. JDG has been poor no doubt but I don't think you can fault TFC for signing him, look at his track record and he was coming off another solid Gold Cup I still have faith he will recapture that form. Attakora doesn't meet expectations? Not sure exactly what the expectations for a 20/21 year old starting CB are? Many TFC fans would tell you he's definitely met their expectations, Im sure most though would say he's surpassed them as he broke in and immediately became one of our best defenders at 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Shaw Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 The ref has spray paint? I've never seen this before... Yes, they've had that for a few MLS games so far this year. Presumably it is water soluble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Shaw Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Disappointing performance from Vancouver, Hainault was good for Houston, all power to him. Yes, Hainault did look good. It's nice to be able to watch players from the CMNT in club games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Shaw Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 BTW I'm surprised I didn't read comments of crying babies whining against the ref. Probably because there is nothing to complain about the referring in the Van vs Hou game. If you expected lots of complaining about the referring, and none has materialised, perhaps the problem isn't "whining"; perhaps the problem in the previous games where people complained was poor refereeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Shaw Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Well honestly, I keep seeing this on the boards, obviously being Canadian and all, but the Caps didn't jump to MLS for the sake of developing the Canadian National team or adding more Canadians on the team, if there not good enough to start. As much as I'd like them to be starters, I could care less, if the Whitecaps field an entire team of Americans, of course I wouldn't like that, but the "club" is there to make money and win games, regardless of nationality. The academy was created to create more quality futbol players whether Canadian, American, or whatever nationality they are. I think it'll be awhile, before we see more Canadians in MLS starting positions, but until than, glad the Caps provide a quality environment for aspiring Canadian players that might want to emulate Camilo, Hassli down the road. You are correct, and I agree completely. This is our province's pro team, not a national team development academy. I watch my local pro team to watch the best level of soccer that their budget and revenues can provide. Soccer is a global game, not one that (like the CFL, the NFL, baseball or basketball) is dominated by North America. We must accept two things: (1) that we will never match Europe for revenue and therefore playing talent; and (2) we will see a steady flow of import players. CFL-like ratios cannot be imposed upon Cdn MLS teams, because we don't have enough top Canadian pros. I love seeing BC boys who play for the Canucks, but honestly: who would trade Ryan Kesler (American) for Martin St Louis (Canadian) right now? Who would trade Cory Schneider for a Canadian-born back-up goalie on another team? Who would trade the Swedish Sedins for ANY two players in the world right now? I wouldn't, and I'm as patriotic as they come. The CLUB consists of more than the team, or it's administration and business components. A CLUB also includes the fans, and when all the current team are retired, the same people will still be fans of the Whitecaps. To compete and win in MLS we can't field an all-Canadian or all-B.C. line-up, which therefore makes such a line-up unrealistic to bother worrying about. The good news is that the MLS and NASL clubs in Van, Edm, Tor, and Mtl are all now running or creating academies that will feed both the pro game AND the national team programmes. I look forward to the day when the current Caps have 3 or 4 Canadians on the field all the time, just like the old NASL caps did. We all know that qualification for the WC in 1986 was partly the result of the opportunity the old NASL gave to Canadian players. The same will happen again, as people like Russel Tiebert are showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Shaw Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 :eek: so the pro clubs should spend their money on developing foreign talent??? I like TFC's rule that if you don't commit to Canada you can't be in the Academy. That's a good rule - I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Shaw Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 ^. Caps supporters get all sensitive at the mention of a commitment to Canadian players.. Dismissing the points or opinions of others by calling it "getting sensitive" is not an honest or objective assesment; it's name-calling. I've yet to see a single person on this site who doesn't want to see more Canadian players on the Caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guppy Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Sutton didn't meet expectations? And yes he did win the starting spot from Coundoul out of preseason and is now sidelined with a concussion. None of us here were inside the Toronto dressing room so theres no use debating off field issues, DeRo SURPASSED expectations on the pitch absolutely. A career year at 32 on a team with no firepower is proof of that. JDG has been poor no doubt but I don't think you can fault TFC for signing him, look at his track record and he was coming off another solid Gold Cup I still have faith he will recapture that form. Attakora doesn't meet expectations? Not sure exactly what the expectations for a 20/21 year old starting CB are? Many TFC fans would tell you he's definitely met their expectations, Im sure most though would say he's surpassed them as he broke in and immediately became one of our best defenders at 20. I can fault the DG signing! A, he wasn't what they needed most of all (winger or striker) and B, he wasn't a good fit with what they had (plenty of back passes to guys that didn't know what to do with it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I think there is a perception - that might be correct - that after the first season Canadians were an endangered species at TFC. Less an endangered species as Canadians on Vancouver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I like how every thread here turns into a TFC vs. Vancouver fight. It's like the old days, when every thread on here turned into a TFC vs. Montreal fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I like how every thread here turns into a TFC vs. Vancouver fight. It's like the old days, when every thread on here turned into a TFC vs. Montreal fight. Euh??? Because we are talking about Canadian players in both clubs it's a fight? You are really sensitive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Less an endangered species as Canadians on Vancouver... Yes, if we want to get into comparisons we now and in the past have had more Canadians than Vancouver currently does. However, there has been a perceived decline of Canadian content on the TFC senior roster/1st team since the first season. I think alot of us had wished TFC had more Canadians on the team these past few years. We're doing better this year, but let's not forget how things were under Mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Even I, as a supporter, would like to see more Canadians on the Caps. I find myself pulling for Dunfield and Teibert and Davies more than any other players. The Whitecaps could have had more Canadians if they wanted, but would it have been in the best interest of the team of the players? The 3 obvious examples are Bellisomo, Gage and Porter. Teitur likes Bellisomo as a player. In discussions with him , he said he could have easily been a roster player for the MLS squad. But he felt that in order for Luca to develop further, he needed to be playing 90 minutes every week. He wasn't going to get that in Vancouver. So as a national team fan, would you rather have Luca playing in Finland or sitting on the bench in MLS? Teitur has even said that he wouldn't rule out Luca's return in the future. The same goes for Gage and Porter except in their cases it was the players' decision to leave and not the clubs. They probably both would have been in the 30 and seen minutes in reserve matches but they thought they had better opportunities. It seems to have worked out for Gage but nor for Porter. I can't reallly blame the Whitecaps for any of these decisions. If they would have signed these 3 guys and had 7 Canadians, perhpas it would have looked better from the outside, but would it have been any better in reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I think there is a perception - that might be correct - that after the first season Canadians were an endangered species at TFC. But the first season was the ONLY season where the canadians on the team we not the cornerstones/mainSTAYS/best players on the team. In five years, Besides Guevara, who has been more valuable than Dero, Attakora, Cann, Brennan? These guys started every game and despite the fact that JDG has, in some circles, underachieved, there is no arguing that he plays all the time when healthy because he is the best option that they have at that role. Lindsay would be starting today were he not injured. Hence, I am lost at that suggestion that "that after the first season Canadians were an endangered species at TFC". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.