paul-collins Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What's the history of the failed CBA standoff again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The discussion, while interesting is certainly going all over the place. I think that probably Italy wants Morace to coach their national team and she probably considers it the "dream" job for her. There is probably a salary increase and more control over the program. What I would really like to know is the terms of her contract with the CSA and if she is leaving early and will she have to compensate the CSA for not fulfilling the terms of the contract. (Of course the Italian Federation will make that payment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hc1 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I think that probably Italy wants Morace to coach their national team and she probably considers it the "dream" job for her. I think she already held that "dream" job for 4 or 5 years preivously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munseahawk Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Canadian women's soccer team threatens boycott http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/canadian-womens-soccer-team-threatens-boycott/article1897982/ Before you give too much credence to the above story, please note that not only is the reporter unnamed, so are his/her sources. It's listed as a Canadian Press report in the Globe. A similar report appears on Yahoo Sports site as well. It is attributed to Neil Davidson of CP and has quotes attributed to Sinclair and Carmelina Moscato. http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=capress-soc_canada_women-5882243 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The 2014/2015 Women's World Cup would be the GREATEST EVENT IN 100 YEARS OF CANADIAN SOCCER. It would put Canada on top of the world stage, ignite the women's game, and light a fire in the eyes and dreams of hundreds of thousands of young girls in the country from coast to coast. Anyone who doesn't respect that and puts their priorities ahead of it does not deserve the maple leaf on their sleeve. No excuses. No exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 ^ I heard that Mozambique was also applying to host the 2015 WC, but I have no confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvst8 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The 2014/2015 Women's World Cup would be the GREATEST EVENT IN 100 YEARS OF CANADIAN SOCCER. It would put Canada on top of the world stage, ignite the women's game, and light a fire in the eyes and dreams of hundreds of thousands of young girls in the country from coast to coast. Anyone who doesn't respect that and puts their priorities ahead of it does not deserve the maple leaf on their sleeve. No excuses. No exceptions. I don't think a mismanaged federation deserves to host the 2014/2015 Women's World Cup. If the CSA promoted the women's program to the public, even slightly, then there would be an opportunity for those 'dreams' to occur before 2014/2015. Zimbabwe is the other country that has applied to host the 2014/2015 World Cup. Perhaps "igniting dreams" of girls and women in Africa would also be a worthwhile cause...if you're looking at it from that point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvst8 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 You're drawing parity where it doesn't exist. The women's program gets funding equivalent to the men's program despite the hugely greater popularity of men's soccer, even in Canada where our women's program is one of the five best and our men's program is completely hapless. Men's leagues in Europe (EPL, Serie A, La Liga, etc) are what people are watching 95% of the time, not North American soccer. How many women play soccer in Canada compared to men? It is virtually identical. Women and men pay the same registration fee to the CSA, so the generated CSA revenue from all of the women who play is quite substantial. The players are supporting Morace and have a separate issue of their own with the CSA (negotiation for player compensation has been going on for years and is not just limited to this women's team). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Isn't it time for the Minister for Sport to step in? You had better believe the government would be taking an interest if the sport with this problem were Hockey. I guess "soccer moms" are not a force in the Canadian political arena. You certainly heard that demographic mentioned in US elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I don't think a mismanaged federation deserves to host the 2014/2015 Women's World Cup. Except it's us hosting. It's Canada. Ironically the post was about rising above your self-interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete K Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The 2014/2015 Women's World Cup would be the GREATEST EVENT IN 100 YEARS OF CANADIAN SOCCER. It would put Canada on top of the world stage, ignite the women's game, and light a fire in the eyes and dreams of hundreds of thousands of young girls in the country from coast to coast. Anyone who doesn't respect that and puts their priorities ahead of it does not deserve the maple leaf on their sleeve. No excuses. No exceptions. The point Vic, is that we came 2nd in the U19 WWC and had hundreds of thousands in attendance. We were within 10 minutes of advancing to a World Cup Final in 2003. Besides some exposure and more girls signing up for soccer (which ironically the registration fees goes into the pockets of the dysfunctional CSA) in Canada, how has that benefitted women's soccer in Canada? Do more girls have the opportunity in this country to play soccer past university? Is really anyone on the women's team able to make a living comparable to even let's say a teacher for reaching the cream of the crop of the 400,000 girls/women that play? How has women's soccer advanced in this country really since 2002 or 2003, or how did the CSA capitalize on those accomplishments and that interest? Plain and simple, they didn't. As mentioned by Sinclair in the article, the girls have played nice with the CSA tried to be reasonable in their negotiations. But now, not only is the incompetence of the CSA affecting their ability to be able to make any kind of a decent living out of the game that they are at the pinnacle of, but they are now being stifled for their coach to have full control over the program and be able to do what is necessary to reach the top, which they are well capable of. If we are looking at this as something that benefits them as individuals, do you not think having a WC hosted in their backyard would not help them as individuals from that standpoint of recognition, marketing, individual opportunity etc? They are receiving NOTHING from the CSA for their efforts as players (let's remember that that $15,000 they are getting as carded is coming from the government, NOT from the CSA) The fact that they are putting their WC preparation on the line, and potentially affecting the WC bid by standing up and doing something finally, should be lauded as selflessness for the next generation. Really any change that comes from this, won't be affecting the players such as the the 2002 U19 gang that are in their late 20's- who are the ones that have a voice that will be heard by standing up to things. Quite frankly at this point, as someone else mentioned, the CSA does not deserve to host such a prestigious event. To be honest, I think the ideal solution, would be to take the registration fees of the 400,000 girls presently signed up to play soccer in Canada, and tell the CSA to shove it. Set up a new shop, the WCSA, free from all the BS that defines the CSA and give the women's game a real chance to develop and grow in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-collins Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Previous CBA discussion here http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?41087-Credit-where-it-s-due-Salute-CSA-for-CONCACAF-Championship-!!/page3 go to post 23 and read from there. Edit: also here http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?41099-US-WNT-CBA-current-until-2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-collins Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I posted this on CSN's comment section for one of Duane's articles. If CSA is providing figures to factor into the debate, it's up to them to provide a full business cycle picture. This is a direct quote from page 96 of their own 2008 Annual Report by the then-Treasurer Vincent Ursini: The CSA operates on a business cycle that is longer than the traditional one year. Senior FIFA World Cups and Olympics are four years apart and youth World Cups take place every two years. Programs continue to be revved up and cut back on a year to year basis depending on where they currently are in their multi-year cycle. Add the significant and seldom occurring hosting of the FIFA U-20 World Cup in 2007 and the comparative financial statements are of limited use in analyzing 2008 results compared to 2007. - http://www.canadasoccer.com/documents/2008_CSA_Annual_Report_EN.pdf Since they know that programs ramp up and down, to suggest that the CWNT funding in a qualification year should be equivalent to the CMNT funding in an off year in which they played 5(!) games is disingenious at best. Also, the 2009 financials can be found here: http://www.canadasoccer.com/documents/2009_CSA_Audited_Financial_Statements_EN.pdf They don't appear to have previous financials online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hc1 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The players have obviously decided that this is the time to make their stand for a CBA and for their coach. Perhaps thats a signal for those of us who agree with their cause (regardless of our feelings about their timing), to do what we can to help speed the process along. I'd suggest we ask our national leaders to exert some pressure on the CSA to resolve this quickly and fairly. Right Hon. Stephen Harper's email address is Harper.S@parl.gc.ca The Minister for Status of Women is Hon. Rona Ambrose, whose email address is Ambrose.R@parl.gc.ca The Minister of State (Sport) is Hon. Gary Lunn, whose email address is Lunn.G@parl.gc.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 That quote from Ursini in their FS is simply asinine. It goes to show they don't know how to structure their accounting. They only need a one eyed man as a one eyed man is a King in a group of blind directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-collins Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 That quote from Ursini in their FS is simply asinine. It goes to show they don't know how to structure their accounting. That was my thought, too. "comparing year to year won't make any sense as we do different things each year. Here's the year to year comparisons." The 2009 audited statement was completely useless as well. No details whatsoever to explain the discrepancies or even the composition of expenses and revenues. What sort of rights as a registered member (parent of players) would someone have to see the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The women put gender equality on the table. The 2010 budget was provided to allow people to get some idea of what we are really talking about. The women received more funding than the men from the CSA in both 2009 and 2010. I have not seen the 2008 numbers, but I'd guess the men got a bit more that year. The point is that the funding level is pretty close. I don't think it's possible from a funding perspective to argue that they are being treated unfairly *within the context of soccer spending*. We'd all love to see them (and the men) get more. The CSA people I have talked to insist that Morace does have full control. Like any manager, however, she needs to stay within the budget and must report to someone above her. There are very few people in the world that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The more likely scenario for the women getting paid is a redistribution of the women's budget towards pay with fewer camps and games. Pay is inequeal but funding is clearly NOT. It's an important distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methusela Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 From what I have read, I don't think that the women have "put gender equality on the table." They have put gender equity on the table: they want to be treated fairly and equitably. The CS's SFAF document is meant to explain how the organization is meeting the challenges posed to the CSA from gender equity and athlete centredness. Where are the documents? Why can't we see them? If the Men's team receives appearance fees, then so should the women's teams. If the men's team has complete sets of fresh kit for matches and tournaments, then so should the women and not have to cover up holes in socks with sharpie pens. If the men's team gets to play home games in the course of a year, then so should the women. Similarly, at the Board level, women shoudl have fair representation. A single lone woman Provincial representative on the old Board was a statement of its own. Marketing (especially through IMG) should not working solely on marketing the men's team. Why aren't they marketing the women's team too? If the women receive more dedicated funding for their program from the COC, OTP and FIFA because of their success, then the men should have the same opportuntities to earn these sums - they do. Duane wants to argue that he does not think it "is possible from a funding perspective to argue that they [the women] are being treated unfairly." There has been a chorus of voices to dispute the figures he is using. But, what about the non-funding treatment? Only a few of the women have professional contracts, so the rest receive their AAP and live with their parents if they are lucky, or else below the poverty line. The men may not al be well -paid stars with their Clubs, but they receive enough to pursue their soccer dreams and make a living. Why then do they receive appearance fees and not the women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What sort of rights as a registered member (parent of players) would someone have to see the books? Your child is not a member of the CSA.... just a taxpayer, you have no rights. You will never have any the reform delay to 2015 was not reform, reform is each club in Canada gets to elect the CSA board .... we dont have that yet, it needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The women put gender equality on the table. The 2010 budget was provided to allow people to get some idea of what we are really talking about. The women received more funding than the men from the CSA in both 2009 and 2010. I have not seen the 2008 numbers, but I'd guess the men got a bit more that year. The point is that the funding level is pretty close. I don't think it's possible from a funding perspective to argue that they are being treated unfairly *within the context of soccer spending*. We'd all love to see them (and the men) get more. The CSA people I have talked to insist that Morace does have full control. Like any manager, however, she needs to stay within the budget and must report to someone above her. There are very few people in the world that don't. What CSA people did you talk to ? Are you saying she blew her budget somehow ? Fess up or are you just backing the old boys in the face of the clear discrimination being practiced by the institution, the discrimination is systemic Duane, dig a little deeper perhaps you might want to ask CAWS what they think of the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 If the men receive an appearance fee (and I've yet to see proof that they do) then so should the women. They are getting $3.1 million ($1.6 from the CSA). That's big enough budget to afford some new socks. It's not really the CSA's fault that there aren't many professional opportunities for the women. It's a shame, but that's a society issue, not a CSA one. From what I have read, I don't think that the women have "put gender equality on the table." They have put gender equity on the table: they want to be treated fairly and equitably. The CS's SFAF document is meant to explain how the organization is meeting the challenges posed to the CSA from gender equity and athlete centredness. Where are the documents? Why can't we see them? If the Men's team receives appearance fees, then so should the women's teams. If the men's team has complete sets of fresh kit for matches and tournaments, then so should the women and not have to cover up holes in socks with sharpie pens. If the men's team gets to play home games in the course of a year, then so should the women. Similarly, at the Board level, women shoudl have fair representation. A single lone woman Provincial representative on the old Board was a statement of its own. Marketing (especially through IMG) should not working solely on marketing the men's team. Why aren't they marketing the women's team too? If the women receive more dedicated funding for their program from the COC, OTP and FIFA because of their success, then the men should have the same opportuntities to earn these sums - they do. Duane wants to argue that he does not think it "is possible from a funding perspective to argue that they [the women] are being treated unfairly." There has been a chorus of voices to dispute the figures he is using. But, what about the non-funding treatment? Only a few of the women have professional contracts, so the rest receive their AAP and live with their parents if they are lucky, or else below the poverty line. The men may not al be well -paid stars with their Clubs, but they receive enough to pursue their soccer dreams and make a living. Why then do they receive appearance fees and not the women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Read my archives. My history of quoting unnamed sources is solid - I don't print crap and my info has been proven to be correct time and time again. I will never get information from the CSA again if I betray a confidence. So, sorry. You're going to have to trust me. Or, not. It's up to you. I'm getting a hard time for not simply reporting the women's concerns without questioning whether they are legitimate. As I wrote on the site today if you are willing to ask pointed questions you need to be prepared to answer some as well. The WNT players have a history of reacting defensively when questioned (remember the Sinclair interview where she ripped De Vos for questioning EP's tactics?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 ^Exactly (on that last point). What if this is a ploy by CM to get the biggest prize of all?? Looking south, she would be numero uno candidate for our such good friends and allies. Poach our top youth player, now poach the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvst8 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The women put gender equality on the table. The 2010 budget was provided to allow people to get some idea of what we are really talking about. Was the 2010 budget you were provided approved by the Board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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