dvst8 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 On the contrary, there is absolutely no way Morace has made a deal with any other nations. Her players support her 100% and judging from her results with the women's program over the past two years, she has given more than anyone in this country could have ever hoped for. Her full commitment is to the players and winning the World Cup. She is not trying to further herself personally with this. If she was, she would/should have left the CSA long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandOne Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'm with dvst8 on this part of the matter. If Morace was seriously that devoid of moral fibre 25 players would've sensed it by now and she wouldn't have the full buy-in / support of so many people. You can only fool so many people for so long. You're tripping if you think she's achieved such a dramatic turnaround of a team SIMPLY FOR HER OWN PERSONAL GAIN or to RETURN TO THE ITALIAN NAT'L HELM. This whole "discussion" makes my head spin. I'm just praying that reform goes through tomorrow In the meantime, I'll keep doing whatever I can... and encourage all of you to do likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The only person who knows what Carolina Morace is doing is Carolina Morace. The dramatic turnaround has been in the enjoyment of the players and fans. The Morace results opponent by opponent are almost identical to Pellerud's final two years. I would think the funding for our senior women's program is top 5 in the world and the only countries to surpass us would be 10 times the scale or communist. We have a couple of serious problems but they aren't program funding (matches, travel, camps, etc). The first is we pay our staff good money but outside of basic carding (1200 a month) we don't fund our players. So when a coach requires long-term full-time commitment we have a situation as I described earlier in the week as one in which something has to give. The second is no elite league to develop players. The only solution is a proxy Tier 2 American league with an 8 week season that is essentially a college player summer league. Outside of that when women finish school they're in a once-a-week practice scenario. We could well be the only country in the top 25 with no national league. Without a national league to develop a proper pool of a couple hundred players our approach has always been to intensely focus on two dozen players. More of a communist solution in the context of a social democracy. And in the World Cup/Olympic two-year competition period under the past two European coaches that's meant heavy time demands on the players. Improving our domestic playing options is a no-brainer. The WPS rumour mill threw out two Canadian groups sniffing around WPS franchises in 2012 and that would certainly go a long way to help (if the league survives). One would be the Whitecaps and the other is the more interesting question. But outside of league traction the right answer is probably somewhere in the middle. It's staff understanding we can't afford full-time long-term commitments and the association contributing to our carded athletes better for the time they are on the job (and an incentive plan too). Just because women play for love of the game and will live in a van down by the river to do it doesn't mean we should treat them that way. And that goes for everyone. And again, it's all about an intelligent and diligent women's committee making sure all parties in the equation are equitably heard, represented, informed, coordinated and not just all brought into equilibrium but synergized to an architected future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 ^ I disagree with our funding being in the top 5. IMO our funding can not compete with any nation that has a women's league with pro clubs. The reason being is those nations that are well formed in a womens league structure also have the same for their national program. The 2 go hand in hand to be able to be financially and on the field successful for the women versus the CSA system of women players and their families sacrificing a large part of their life to make up for the downfalls of the CSA. As for domestic leagues we will alway agree on the important role it plays in player development Sadly the lack of a pro league falls on the shoulders of the CSA too. IMO who in their right mind is going to start a pro league in Canada with all the BS that is going on up top with the CSA. If the amateur system is broken how do pro teams rely on getting a good feeder system to the top. This is one of the reasons CM walked as like EP the CSA restricted their roles in shaping the feeder structure under the NT's. The UEFA structure has 28 countries with women's leagues. Those clubs in those leagues either support themselves or are embedded in both gender clubs. http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/women/index.html Another benefit of the Euro system is they treat their women with respect by looking after them in a profession manner like the pro men. Like the pro men the women have or are in the process of getting pro contracts or CBA's that interface with their NT duties. Examples of CBA's the FA women's league players and FA WSL as well. Finally let's clarify something that people get wrong about sports contracts or CBA's or funding. They are not all about money. There are other priorities that come before that like insurance whether it's accident, disability if a player can no longer play pro or retain their scholarship, education, appearance fee/cash prizes, access to neutral dispute resolution, maternity leave, travel arrangements, family tickets, number of game in home country, per diem (yep, ours is $10) mutual respect for pro and college player contracts and the list goes on and on........... If the the USSF on $1-2 per member and a lot of sponsors can do the below while struggling with a domestic league then how should we hold the CSA responsible? http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/article.php?article_id=5125 CM has done an excellent job on limited resources and support. She has earned the respect from her Canadian players and her fans. Her game is lovely to watch. Sadly, her dilemma is part of a long playing broken record with many having played it before her whether the WP or MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvst8 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The comment about Morace's results being 'the same' as Pellerud's in his final two years may be true, but he had the program for eight years at that point and she's enabled the team to achieve those results in less than two! His program was mainly funded by outside money (Kerfoot) so that he could keep the team together preparing for the World Cup and Olympics. I can only imagine how much Morace is struggling to keep her program afloat when the CSA seems to continue to remove funding from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvst8 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 It isn't a control issue because she has had full control (just look at the make up of her very large staff to know that she is calling the shots). I've heard rumours from people close to the team that there are a number of "her very large staff" who have been working for the team for free and/or without a contract. Probably wouldn't be the case if she had 'full control' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Finally the truth is coming out on the CWNT basically paying their own way - Control, funding at root of Morace's complaints The Province - By MARC WEBER FRI, FEB 4 2011 The Canadian Soccer Association moved close to $150,000 out of the women's national soccer team budget after a planned October friendly fell through, sources have told the Province. It's one of a number of gripes that led to Friday's statement from head coach Carolina Morace that she and her staff intend to quit following this summer's FIFA Women's World Cup in Germany. In the run up to November's CONCACAF Gold Cup, which served as the World Cup qualifier, Morace had funding in place for two home friendlies, sources said. Canada tied China 1-1 on Sept. 30 in Toronto, but when South Africa withdrew from a second friendly, Morace wasn't able to schedule another game, or use the money elsewhere, as is was redistributed by the CSA. Control over the women's budget is at the heart of the matter for Morace, a former Italian international hired to lead the Canadian women in Feb., 2009. But there's also concern over how the women's program is funded in general. Sources say that Own the Podium funding — listed as $1.425 million for 2010-11 on the OTP website — currently makes up around 75% of the Canadian women's national soccer team budget, and that CSA funding for the women's team was shifted after OTP money came in. A CSA representative denied the latter claim Friday and the association plans to respond fully to the situation following Saturday's special general meeting in Ottawa. Sources also say the women's team didn't retain any of the bonus money for winning the CONCACAF Gold Cup — that the money went back into the CSA's general budget. cont'd Further this is how the WNT get's to the Olympics with OTP $ http://www.ownthepodium2010.com/Funding/comparison_summer.aspx Soccer - Women Beijing - $1,591,000 London - $2,496,370 IMO this is how it should have worked for the WNT 1/2 of NT funding that is usually around $1.4M - 1.6M plus their OPT funding $1.425 = $2.83M Looking at the 2009 financials the NT expense for both teams was $2.8M. If that's the case where did the WNT OTP performance monies go? Same question for cash prizes like CONCACAF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The article in the Globe this morning said she would be in breach of her contract with the CSA if she gave her reasons for quitting now so she will wait till after the World Cup. Now I don't think all is lost here yet, if the women win another tournament before the World Cup (which very well could happen in Cyprus), and then perform well at the World Cup you have to think the CSA will beg her to stay on for the Olympics. I mean a medaling at the Olympics would almost mean as much to the program as medaling at the World Cup. It would almost be starting back at square one again with a year to go to the Olympics if Morace leaves after the World Cup. So fingers crossed, I don't think we've seen the end of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandOne Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Voting to reform CDN Soccer Association governance passes today. Third motion is approved unanimously. If you love soccer / football PLEASE READ THIS OPEN LETTER FROM THE WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM. It speaks very clearly to the matter of Coach Carolina Morace's tendered letter of resignation. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2011/02/kara-lang-speaks-out-on-csa-reform.html Kara Lang speaks out on CSA reform * February 5, 2011 11:32 AM Kara Lang has been a vocal advocate of CSA reform. (Associated Press) Former Canadian women's team star Kara Lang was in attendance for Saturday's Canadian Soccer Association's Special General Meeting in Ottawa, where the membership of the CSA voted on governance renewal. Lang attended the meeting with CBC Sports commentator Jason de Vos, a former captain of the Canadian men's team. The following is a statement that was prepared by Lang, on behalf of the women's national team, which she was to read before the delegates of today's Canadian Soccer Association Special General Meeting in Ottawa. She was unable to do so, because only the motions on the agenda were open for discussion. This is what she would have said, if given the chance: Hello everyone and thank you for giving me the opportunity to say a few words on behalf of the players. The players of our national women's team whole-heartedly support the change in governance that has been proposed. We feel that it is an important, and necessary, step for the growth of soccer in Canada. Voting in favour of reform would mean that there would be a greater level of soccer and business expertise at the disposal of this association. It would add a level of experience that is currently not there. It would allow for new ideas and new voices to influence Canadian soccer. It is also important to us that a change in governance will see more women in the board. While a minimum of three women on the board is far from perfect, it is a start, and one that the players fully endorse. Most importantly is that the CSA does not continue as is and accepts the status quo. It is simply not good enough. If soccer in this country is going to take the next step, then the CSA needs to change. Carolina Morace has brought the women's program to a whole new level, but unless the Association starts making changes that allow it to grow and progress, the team won't ever be able to reach its full potential and achieve the goals that they have set for the program. You have the power to stop the inertia of this Association that is stifling the growth of soccer in this country. It's time that you all recognized the opportunity that is right in front of you. The women's program is the most successful program in Canada, and has the potential to change the face of soccer in this country. We've heard many times that the CSA supports the women's game, but actions speak louder than words. So far the actions of the Association have proven otherwise. If you truly believe in this team, then invest in them and give them the resources they need to succeed. You have what could potentially be one of the best teams in the world - just imagine what could happen if they came home with a World Cup Championship or an Olympic medal. Imagine what it could do for soccer in this country. Lastly, I would like to address the situation with the women's national team coach, Carolina Morace. The players are aware of her decision to resign after the World Cup, and want to express that they are behind her 100 per cent. This is not an acceptable outcome, and the players would like to urge the CSA to act quickly to resolve this situation. Carolina has brought a new mindset to the women's team, and the players feel she is the key to achieving a medal in the World Cup and beyond. By allowing her to leave, the CSA would be doing a grave disservice to the team and to soccer in Canada. For those of you who think that the issue of Carolina's resignation is separate from that of governance reform - you are sadly mistaken. Carolina Morace is the best thing that has ever happened to the women's program, and if not for the current governance structure, she would be able to do her job to the best of her ability. The Canadian national women's team feels that it is in the best interests of the game in Canada to do whatever it takes to ensure she remains a part of the program. Thank you, Kara Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 We don't have a national men's league either. Most of our team plays professionally around the world. They don't have the option of a year-round training/travel/tournament option here and abroad. They come back for brief minimal periods for camps before tournaments. That is the way 99% of all men's and women's programs in the world operate. Outside of communist countries is there a country in the world that has been in camp longer than we have in the past half year? Our program is world class. The problem is we don't pay our athletes for it. It's been achieved in the short-run because the players bore the burden. But it's not feasible in the long-run and is already busting at the seams. That means either find the money to pay them more (and deal with the precedent with 9 other programs), or like the men's team and the rest of the world cut back on the full-time schedule and commitment requirements. I'm sure if you had a workable solution for paying them more and went to the CSA with it they would gladly leap, and they have a history of doing just that. If they don't leap you can throw the gender card or you can accept that myabe, just maybe they see things in a bigger picture and know what they're doing. Barring a solution for running our teams as year-round programs and paying all our athletes well for their annual commitment, it's up to the association, coaching staff and players to come up with an appropriate schedule, commitment and compensation package. Most successful countries in the world do that in a civilized professional manner and it would be nice if we could too. And that's a strike against all parties in the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandOne Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Wow, I never realized how pro-CSA you are until right now, Vic. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvst8 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 We don't have a national men's league either. Most of our team plays professionally around the world. They don't have the option of a year-round training/travel/tournament option here and abroad. They come back for brief minimal periods for camps before tournaments. That is the way 99% of all men's and women's programs in the world operate. I've heard the only reason Morace was able to have the women's team together for so long in the fall was because the U20's didn't qualify for the World Cup so she was able to use that money for the Senior team. Without that funding to enable the time together I highly doubt the team would have been as successful as they were at CONCACAF qualifying. The men don't have a domestic league and look at their world ranking! If you research the top 5 women's teams in the world you will see the strong domestic leagues they have in place which consequently means they don't have to be together for long periods of time before major tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtlfan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Just what the competition wanted, Canada getting sidetracked at this crucial time, we have never had a National team getting ready to peak in a World Cup year . I want to know the names of these clowns who are responsible for this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I've been accused of that and equally of the opposite. Someone once said that life was tragedy up close and humor seen from a distance above. Every now and then I'm reminded of that. I feel sorry for all parties in the dispute, especially the players. But it's a much deeper issue than the big bad CSA stealing from poor little girls. There are degrees of culpability across the board. I think the only innocents are the young players and those who were on long-term hiatus. And the most disappointing part is seeing them in a disadvantaged situation and pawns in a power struggle they have and had no control over. One of my other favourite quotes is "it's co-existence or no existence." Every now and then that hits home too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 "it's co-existence or no existence" and that seems to be the case for the CSA BOD. The WP and WNT since the Charmaine Hooper days of her busting the CSA BOD chops have been asking and waiting on the CSA BOD. The WP and WNT have even had to go get their own sponsors to fund their programs rather than wait on the CSA . A couple of examples that have been discussed here - - U17 team and their families did their own funding to get the monies they needed to prepare for their WC - WNT gets Kerfoot involved for funding their residency camp. Funds only available if the monies are handled outside of CSA accounts. - Teck gets involved with funding after years of contract negotiations with the CSA on keeping the the Teck funding separate from CSA accounts and only for the WNT All of the above and let's not forget the sacrifices the WP families have had to make like our Seniors players having to live at home to being able to afford to train for the WWC. Pro players not being able to sign pro deals as the time demands and scheduling of the WNT are too great. Now we have Carolina and Kara calling out the CSA to walk the talk. Now we have the newspapers asking the CSA about how the money is being used for the WP and WNT programs. What has the CSA done lately funding wise beside moving the WNT funding rewards around in the CSA. I have nothing positive to say to the CSA board as what they have done at the top with the WP has impacted the whole sport below it. The reform for no PSO Presidents at the top can't come quick enough for me. But like Carolina, Kara and the newspapers have revealed there are some immediate problems that need to be addressed NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 We don't have a national men's league either. Most of our team plays professionally around the world. They don't have the option of a year-round training/travel/tournament option here and abroad. They come back for brief minimal periods for camps before tournaments. That is the way 99% of all men's and women's programs in the world operate. Outside of communist countries is there a country in the world that has been in camp longer than we have in the past half year? Our program is world class. The problem is we don't pay our athletes for it. It's been achieved in the short-run because the players bore the burden. But it's not feasible in the long-run and is already busting at the seams. That means either find the money to pay them more (and deal with the precedent with 9 other programs), or like the men's team and the rest of the world cut back on the full-time schedule and commitment requirements. I'm sure if you had a workable solution for paying them more and went to the CSA with it they would gladly leap, and they have a history of doing just that. If they don't leap you can throw the gender card or you can accept that myabe, just maybe they see things in a bigger picture and know what they're doing. Barring a solution for running our teams as year-round programs and paying all our athletes well for their annual commitment, it's up to the association, coaching staff and players to come up with an appropriate schedule, commitment and compensation package. Most successful countries in the world do that in a civilized professional manner and it would be nice if we could too. And that's a strike against all parties in the equation. While I'm no fan of the CSA, I think Vic hit the nail on the head with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 The money to help the WNT is there but the CSA does't give them their government performance funding or their CONCACAF cash rewards/appearance fees on top of their cut of the overall budget for NT funding as referenced in the newspaper articles. This is what seems to happen - 1/2 of NT funding that is usually around $1.4M - 1.6M. CSA, Oh we've got the WNT Feds performance funding of $1.4 so lets let them keep that and give them some of their NT Funding and move the balance of their NT funding elsewhere in the CSA. WNT tops out at $1.4M - 1.6M This is what should happen - 1/2 of NT funding that is usually around $1.4M - 1.6M plus their Feds performance funding $1.425 = $2.83M The WP and WNT probably don't need all of that $ but it's time to let the WP Head Coach and the players do what they think is best with the WNT Fed performance funding along with their NT budget. Otherwise we are moving ahead at a snails pace for the WP, the sport, the females, loosing more coaches and putting off sponsors. Solution is like other countries, get the national governing body of the sport to sit down with the players and paper an agreement, contract, CBA or similar. Other countries can do it but the CSA has been avoiding it for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 After Morace leaves, how long will the CSA keep the women without a coach. Will they appoint a local yocal or will they search for somebody as good or even better than Morace? She is leaving some big shoes to fill. I hope that the WC itself may provide some idea about coaches. It will be interesting to see if the CSA really has improved or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 How about her protege Andrea Neil? Wouldn't that be the logical next step? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccer9 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 ^^ Yes I think so Joe, at least for the U20's to start. She already got her UEFA A Lic. in Italy, which was all Morace pushing for her to go there. But something tells me that Morace will not leave this soon.... have some faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 How about her protege Andrea Neil? Wouldn't that be the logical next step? I don't believe that Neil has ever been head coach of anything at any level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 You're making it sound like Morace coached peewee soccer on up or something. I doubt that is what happened. Is Morace holding coaching secrets back from Andrea? I think if you sit beside someone for two years you might have an inkling of what they do and how they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 The Ref has a valid point. Coaching is much more than just knowing the game. It is also knowing how to handle the varing personalities ion the team. Andrea may make an excellent choice, but I think from the CSA point of view she might be a good choice over an established(successful) coach in that she is a known quantity and most importantly will work for a lower salary than a more seasoned coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachRich Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 What makes you guys think that any coach is willing to step into a well publicized toxic work environment that lacks funding and commitment from the BOD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvst8 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 How about her protege Andrea Neil? Wouldn't that be the logical next step? Morace's statement about leaving after the World Cup includes her entire staff leaving, so Neil is part of that. The staff, I can only imagine, is aware of the hurdles (aka. CSA) Carolina has been forced to deal with and supports her decision 100%, just as the players do. Why would Neil want to subject herself to the same headaches Morace has faced?! After Neil represented her country for 18 years she took a one-year sabbatical and then joined Morace's staff. The playing experience and the time she has spent with Carolina's program for two years more than qualify her to coach at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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