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CSA AGM Passes Constitution Committee Recommendations


Tuscan

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I agree, just because one has played soccer professionally does not guarantee that one is a competent business manager or sports administrator. Not to say former players' input is not valid or valuable to a degree, I just don't believe that they are in every case the answer to running the CSA the way it should be run.

First off my apologies on the multi-posting, but each of these replies needs to be separate. Anyway, I agree with you in the hopes that the CSA will turn its attention towards the privately-run clubs and academies, as they hold the key to teaching the rest of the country how to set up a proper soccer institution that is run like a business.

I think the former player involvement on the Board will have clearly defined limits, in that definitely not the full 50% appointed will be former players, that'd just be ludicrous. Please remember what I wrote regarding the fact the main aim of the 50% appointed will be aimed towards people involved in Canadian business who can bring skills and knowledge assets to the Board in a tactical way (i.e. PR and marketing needs, financial accountability, how to actually run an organization of the CSA's magnitude, etc...).

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I didn't want to go back into this, but black is now a perfectly fine term again, it was african-canadian for a while but black has come back because african canadian is too many syllabels. the reason their is a need for these groupings is because alot of people still discriminate based on these things so right or wrong your in a 'colbert bubble'. As for your hatred of the term visible minority, I am perplexed, it just means you are amoung the group who may be vulnerable to the racist members of the majority for superficial reason(here I'm basically agreeing with you but your dogmatism solves nothing), if you were in africa, you would be a visible minority, a lot of people would refer to you as 'that white guy', some people would dislike you before you even met them (ie, rednecks). Now I'll try my best to shut the hell up, which will be easier if we all desnottify.

edit: last thing, sorry, TFCregina early I agreed it was probably a coincidence, and I agreed here it can coincedentaly happen again but the odds for 19/19 white people in canada is very rare. I fully agree though, hire the best person for the job, and right now were just joking (thinking it's a coincidence) but eventually bizarre coincidences just seem suspicious (not yet or anything).

Again, you make valid points. However, I'm just saying the system we use is flawed in a lot of places. Did you know the Canadian government counts a Korean and Japanese union as interracial while a union between say an English and a Russian person is not? With an example like that, you can see how retarded the system is. Where do we draw the line with this thing? All of the sudden, visible minorities aren't grouped together when it comes to marriage? The multi cultural critic really needs to start doing his or her job, you know, critique things. If that person can't see the hypocricy in the example I just gave, all I can say is get the f*ck out of here.

Anyhow, like you insinuated, we went off on a tangent here.

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That's a great question...

The deposed Board members dropped their court challenge because they knew already that the CSA Executive would recognize them at the AGM. They also know that they would have lost their court challenge so are now claiming that CSA has recognized them as the legitimate Board of ASA, therfore no court action necessary. They don't have access to the office or the staff and with the exception of the new Executive Director that the deposed Board hired, the staff is answering to the new Board. It's a brave stance by them as they realize that if the old Board regains control, they will all be fired with the exception of the E.D. and Anthony Traficante (Mike's son). Unfortunately the Bank where the ASA account resides will no longer be allowing access to the funds in that account, so essentially things are at a temporary standstill. No negotiation is possible as the old board has made their position very clear - complete capitulation or nothing. Further to the goings-on in Winnipeg, it has come to light that the Board meeting on friday spent three hours debating over who was going to represent Alberta. Four members of the new Board went to Winnipeg to plead our case and they were not allowed anywhere near the Board members. Not only that but the information that should have been distributed to the Board members backing up our new board's position was not distributed by the CSA President. Some sympathetic, Board members knew of the situation and apparently did their best to support the legal ASA Board's application but the full Board, supposedly by the narrowest of margins approved the deposed Board to cast Alberta's votes with Mario Charpentier as acting President. Interestingly my information is that Mike Traficante was allowed to vote even with a clear conflict of interest. The next morning the new ASA Board attempted to enter the AGM and were accosted at the door by a burly security guard and informed that without credentials they would not be permitted to enter. Apparently an argument ensued and Maestracci and others came to the door to inform (albeit in very hard to understand broken english) them that they were to leave. An interesting contrast with last year's AGM in Banff where I have it on good authority that there were 4 open doors and an observation area with generous seating. People apparently came and left freely with no security checks. To me it seems that the Maestarcci, Motagliani, Trficante cabal on the executive operates nearly absent of ethical considerations. Obviously their power is reduced with Miilien, the Quebec director at large being replaced by Clive Wilkinson. We have a difficult time ahead in Alberta, the support from this forum is very much appreciated.

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I believe the appointed Board members will be selected by the Nominations Committee, who will have strict guidlines as to the necessary credentials of the people to seek out. Don't worry, it's not like they haven't thought of things like this :P

Seriously Tuscan the new governance model does nothing to democratize the CSA to be a member driven organisation, its a structure to make change harder not easier, six elected Directors strike a ctte of what 2 or 3 who name 6 other Directors ?

This for an organisation that taxes its 600,000 odd members its a joke.

Only one reform of governance works, all clubs in membership get vote at the AGM based on the fees they transmit to the CSA. You can have board of what ever size you want but it must be directly elected at an open AGM by all clubs in membership.

Once you have democratized model, the new board can go about defining just how we meet the goals of having successfull National Teams, and relevant programs delivered Directly to the clubs by the CSA and local District Boards.

Anything else is not democratic and prone to all sorts of conflicts, and corruption and incompentence.

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Seriously Tuscan the new governance model does nothing to democratize the CSA to be a member driven organisation, its a structure to make change harder not easier, six elected Directors strike a ctte of what 2 or 3 who name 6 other Directors ?

This for an organisation that taxes its 600,000 odd members its a joke.

Only one reform of governance works, all clubs in membership get vote at the AGM based on the fees they transmit to the CSA. You can have board of what ever size you want but it must be directly elected at an open AGM by all clubs in membership.

Once you have democratized model, the new board can go about defining just how we meet the goals of having successfull National Teams, and relevant programs delivered Directly to the clubs by the CSA and local District Boards.

Anything else is not democratic and prone to all sorts of conflicts, and corruption and incompentence.

Personally, your proposal appeals to me very much. I also think it would have no chance of being implemented. The recommendations that were accepted only passed by a narrow margin as it was, I can't see how this would fly. It would take an intervention by Sport Canada, maybe I'm too pessimistic but it's hard to see that happening without a nationwide groundswell of pressure. I don't know how anyone could mobilize that large, mostly recreational group of fee payers to put that kind of pressure on the government. Also, what about FIFA? They hate government interference - I know it worked in Australia but there will be strong oppostiion here. Maybe find out how much Jack Warner would want?

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Clubs would have their own set of interests...Like saving money by cutting back on national and provincial elite player development initiatives and funneling the money back into the recreational youth clubs...

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^ yes that is the age old problem we're trying to get away from.

There have been a lot of goods points raised here, Richard's above is definitely on the mark also.

Too bad we don't have a well-backed and empowered national sporting think tank that could strongarm organisations like the CSA/ASA into submission to state-of-the-art solutions in the global sporting world to problems such as these.

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Does this blow anyone else away as much as it does me??

Considering the ones the letter was addressed to weren't the ones invoking litigation, but rather it was the guy who Maestracci put on the CSA board as Alberta's rep that began litigation, then yes, it does indeed blow me away.

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This is a link from 2007 that, if read chronologically, shows what ASA and EMSA (Edmonton minor) tried to do to EIYSA. EIYSA is the elite club league in Edmonton that has provided many youth players to our youth national teams and won many, many national club championships. All the EIYSA clubs have ever done is try to provide the opportunity for elite players to develop and compete with and against the best available. For this the same people who today are causing all the problems in Alberta and nationally, tried everything they could to destroy EIYSA. It takes a while to go through all the correspondence but please note Maestracci and Montagliane's part in it. I brings back many bad memories for us in Alberta.

http://www.itsportsnet.com/league.php?scriptName=LEAGUEINFO&leagueID=1600&leagueInfoID=46071

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Clubs would have their own set of interests...Like saving money by cutting back on national and provincial elite player development initiatives and funneling the money back into the recreational youth clubs...

Give the clubs control .. eliminate the provinces have CSA and clubs, direct elections... you might be very surprised at how progressive the clubs can be to think they only want to reduce fees is a myth, they want service for the fees they pay currently they get few if any.

And if you think national all stars is a program to develop players and that the provinces do the developing your dead wrong provinces simply poach players from club programs then claim they did it all ... its a sham a longstanding silly sham that gives members of the old boys network and their kids jobs at high salaries and low accountability.

Again lets be clear what is proposed does not reform the CSA it solidifys control in even fewer hands.

You think how the CSA handles Alberta is a shocker if you see this reform go through be ready for many many more.

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You propose to have thousands of clubs voting in every single elected official? How do you propose disseminating information to all of them so that they're educated and making knowledgeable decisions? And why wouldn't all of the clubs in Ontario organize to form a cartel and use their considerable numbers to vote in an Ontarian into each position? All of the other clubs in the country would have to organize themselves against Ontario as a resistance, the whole process could become a real-life version of the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.

As for the clubs themselves, the majority of the paying members are house league players. Of what use is running more Youth National team camps or having NTC's to these kids parents? Some club admin. might be progressive, but the membership is who votes them in and if the clubs wield more power then all of a sudden so does the membership (do as we say or we vote you out). Soon those house league parents will be asking the administrators for more games for little Johnny or a bigger trophy for Sally instead of wasting money on national teams - Canada sucks, we can't even make the world cup anyways right!?

As for the clubs developing the players, yes they do. Up until 10-12 the recreational youth clubs do a decent job of providing an environment for the kids to play and learn. But if you think removing the NTC's - however imperfect they are, and i have in the past detailed what i would reform - and letting the youth clubs continue developing the kids until one of our 3 pro clubs scouts them then you're setting us up to go back to the dark ages of the 90's. There is a place for National and Regional training academies, just ask the French, but they need to be done right.

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You propose to have thousands of clubs voting in every single elected official? How do you propose disseminating information to all of them so that they're educated and making knowledgeable decisions? And why wouldn't all of the clubs in Ontario organize to form a cartel and use their considerable numbers to vote in an Ontarian into each position? All of the other clubs in the country would have to organize themselves against Ontario as a resistance, the whole process could become a real-life version of the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.

As for the clubs themselves, the majority of the paying members are house league players. Of what use is running more Youth National team camps or having NTC's to these kids parents? Some club admin. might be progressive, but the membership is who votes them in and if the clubs wield more power then all of a sudden so does the membership (do as we say or we vote you out). Soon those house league parents will be asking the administrators for more games for little Johnny or a bigger trophy for Sally instead of wasting money on national teams - Canada sucks, we can't even make the world cup anyways right!?

As for the clubs developing the players, yes they do. Up until 10-12 the recreational youth clubs do a decent job of providing an environment for the kids to play and learn. But if you think removing the NTC's - however imperfect they are, and i have in the past detailed what i would reform - and letting the youth clubs continue developing the kids until one of our 3 pro clubs scouts them then you're setting us up to go back to the dark ages of the 90's. There is a place for National and Regional training academies, just ask the French, but they need to be done right.

I think you underestimate the clubs and the parents, more seriously you underestimate Canadian culture with regards to how accomodations are made regarding national associations.

Parentsl will not pull funding of five bucks or ten when they are paying out 200 or 300 Jane or Johnny to play, to think clubs would pull funding f they get services and a direxct vote in who runs the CSA I think your wong.

What will happen is if this change goes through you will have a even more non-responsive CSA.

Let the clubs elect directly let the clubs decide the direction ... if not simply invite Jack Warner to collect the money and make decsiciiopns cause that is where you are going.

Dumb dumb and dumber could not have come up with a better recipe for the status quo.

shocking.

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Dumb dumb and dumber could not have come up with a better recipe for the status quo.

Really? Because my brother who sits on a non-profit org's board says this is a great way to eliminate conflicts of interest...and he has no connection to soccer at all.

He finds it fascinating that the model hadn't been set up as such before...

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What will happen is if this change goes through you will have a even more non-responsive CSA.

Let the clubs elect directly let the clubs decide the direction ... if not simply invite Jack Warner to collect the money and make decsiciiopns cause that is where you are going.

Trillium. I hear where you are coming from. I'm in complete agreement in regards to giving clubs voting rights at the CSA. However, we are a long way off from that kind of reform. I think this new CSA Board structure has potential but it depends how it is going to be instituted. I haven't yet seen any information (I may have missed it) regarding how these 6 new directors are going to be added to the board. What makes sense to me is that this committee will be formed to simple identify good candidates to fill certain positions. They would then be voted in by the Provincial Associations in the same way the regional board members would be. This would still give the overall CSA membership (which are the Provincial Associations Boards) the ultimate say. So the only thing that would really change (if this is the way it's going to happen) is not the process so much but the candidates eligible to run for BOD positions. So they should have a pool of candidates to vote on that are actually far more representative of the Canadian soccer community.

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I think you underestimate the clubs and the parents, more seriously you underestimate Canadian culture with regards to how accomodations are made regarding national associations.

Ok, you have some legit gripes about the governance reforms. However, looking at what you're saying here at face, I have an extremely hard time believing. The asides from the whole lack of accountability (on all levels) the biggest problem soccer faces is that competitive people and amateurs are housed under one roof waging a never ending war (against themselves basically). These ties need to be cut. CSA has no business regulating beer leagues or charging them fees (shameful). Amateur clubs have no business in the national team.

To the extent the CSA should be involved with youth structures, they should provide high standards (for coaching + competition) and a format, that's it! No provincial team bull****, no excessively useless admin functions, keep it to high level stuff!

Give the amateur clubs a format so the best can shine and let the market take care ofdeveloping youth players. Encourage links all the way from the bottom through leagues like the CSL and all the way up to MLS. Make it clear to anyone who wants to be competitive the path to the pros.

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Really? Because my brother who sits on a non-profit org's board says this is a great way to eliminate conflicts of interest...and he has no connection to soccer at all.

He finds it fascinating that the model hadn't been set up as such before...

I stand to be corrected and i have not had time to read the federalo corporations act lately.... but the model probably is a very grey area in term of corporate goverrnance...normally Directors are elected by the shareholders .. in this case its the CSA having provinces which self elect.

At some point the changes to governance if incorporated into corporate structure becomes a matter for Industry Canada to review as the CSA is a federal entity.

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You might want to review the governance model of Skate Canada... you will see its much more democratic, gives control to local clubs..and shock os shock produces world champions.... oh and they use the internet to communicate.

To think you cant communicate issues today effectively and at low cost is to hide your head in the ground.

You propose to have thousands of clubs voting in every single elected official? How do you propose disseminating information to all of them so that they're educated and making knowledgeable decisions? And why wouldn't all of the clubs in Ontario organize to form a cartel and use their considerable numbers to vote in an Ontarian into each position? All of the other clubs in the country would have to organize themselves against Ontario as a resistance, the whole process could become a real-life version of the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.

As for the clubs themselves, the majority of the paying members are house league players. Of what use is running more Youth National team camps or having NTC's to these kids parents? Some club admin. might be progressive, but the membership is who votes them in and if the clubs wield more power then all of a sudden so does the membership (do as we say or we vote you out). Soon those house league parents will be asking the administrators for more games for little Johnny or a bigger trophy for Sally instead of wasting money on national teams - Canada sucks, we can't even make the world cup anyways right!?

As for the clubs developing the players, yes they do. Up until 10-12 the recreational youth clubs do a decent job of providing an environment for the kids to play and learn. But if you think removing the NTC's - however imperfect they are, and i have in the past detailed what i would reform - and letting the youth clubs continue developing the kids until one of our 3 pro clubs scouts them then you're setting us up to go back to the dark ages of the 90's. There is a place for National and Regional training academies, just ask the French, but they need to be done right.

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I stand to be corrected and i have not had time to read the federalo corporations act lately.... but the model probably is a very grey area in term of corporate goverrnance...normally Directors are elected by the shareholders .. in this case its the CSA having provinces which self elect.

At some point the changes to governance if incorporated into corporate structure becomes a matter for Industry Canada to review as the CSA is a federal entity.

In all reality, if we have 100% elected, we'll get a bunch of anti-World Cup people...at least right now. The fact is the growth of the game at the pro level is reforming the way we view football in this country. Parents are starting to see that their kids can make it...even if it's "small time" professional like NASL or MLS. They also realize it's the way their kid can get overseas in the end. But the majority are against development...they just haven't realized the opportunity yet.

At this point 50/50 is probably the best way to go.

I'm in economics...I tend to view Canada and soccer in the developmental mindset...often times the country needs an authoritarian set up to develop...that doesn't mean it always has to be that way, but it's the reality of the situation. We're third world but improving. We need a semi-authoritarian/semi-democratic set up until we can improve our national program to the point it can succeed and parents are willing to "put out" to succeed.

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So just how do you find six dedicated members

of corporate elites to join the CSA... we must

be talking about people who can write big

cheques or get big cheques written.

If the CSA gives up 95% of its revenue stream

paid by the recreational players... leaving

only 5% of the player pool to pay the CSA

for the privilege to play competitive soccer

in Canada we are talking about roughly 25,000

players accross the country.

To produce what CSA currently has as a budget of

six million dollars a year.

So 25,000 into 6,000,000 equals $ 240.00 for

every competitive player to pay.

I have no problem in suggesting that as the approach

to be taken... its probably do-able.

Competitive kids are paying 2 to 3 thousand a year

so .. to take 10% of that and give it to

the CSA would work.

And a base of 25k players in the CSA would probably

mean clubs with four to six teams of each sex

running from 12, u14, u16 and u21.

If that is model you think makes sense then go for it,

but will the CSA have the will to make it

happen.

It probably means about 250 max competitive

clubs in the country.

Ok, you have some legit gripes about the governance reforms. However, looking at what you're saying here at face, I have an extremely hard time believing. The asides from the whole lack of accountability (on all levels) the biggest problem soccer faces is that competitive people and amateurs are housed under one roof waging a never ending war (against themselves basically). These ties need to be cut. CSA has no business regulating beer leagues or charging them fees (shameful). Amateur clubs have no business in the national team.

To the extent the CSA should be involved with youth structures, they should provide high standards (for coaching + competition) and a format, that's it! No provincial team bull****, no excessively useless admin functions, keep it to high level stuff!

Give the amateur clubs a format so the best can shine and let the market take care ofdeveloping youth players. Encourage links all the way from the bottom through leagues like the CSL and all the way up to MLS. Make it clear to anyone who wants to be competitive the path to the pros.

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Jason de Vos has an update of his first column on this on cbcsports.ca this am. Also it's worthwhile checking out the globe and mail announcement on Ken Read's eappointment as head of winter sports section of Own the Podium. It's interesting how other sports in Canada are able to focus on what their problems are, put a plan together to fix it and follow up with planning for the future working towards a common goal. Of course soccer is "special" and nothing anyone else does successfully could possibly apply here - right? It's time for soccer in Canada to grow up and join the adult world.

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Jason de Vos has an update of his first column on this on cbcsports.ca this am. Also it's worthwhile checking out the globe and mail announcement on Ken Read's eappointment as head of winter sports section of Own the Podium. It's interesting how other sports in Canada are able to focus on what their problems are, put a plan together to fix it and follow up with planning for the future working towards a common goal. Of course soccer is "special" and nothing anyone else does successfully could possibly apply here - right? It's time for soccer in Canada to grow up and join the adult world.

I most certainly agree with this statement. It is time to grow up and start making progress in Canada with the game of soccer. I commend Jason de Vos for his continuing commitment for the betterment of the game in Canada. He has strongly voiced his opinion about change in previous years and I am glad he is in the forefront of such news.

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So just how do you find six dedicated members

of corporate elites to join the CSA... we must

be talking about people who can write big

cheques or get big cheques written.

If the CSA gives up 95% of its revenue stream

paid by the recreational players... leaving

only 5% of the player pool to pay the CSA

for the privilege to play competitive soccer

in Canada we are talking about roughly 25,000

players accross the country.

A direct cut out would probably be difficult, but at the least they should work on phasing it out over time. I think that even having the competitive element pay a registration fee is backwards.

Other federations have an economic model that works, time for the CSA to move towards that as opposed to looking towards reg fees as a crutch.

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