CSA AGM Passes Constitution Committee Recommendations

[Macksam]

You have to have a board and board members who add a perspective and bring competencies that relate to soccer and growth of soccer and its culture rather than have board member who bring nothing else other than the fact that they represent province XXX or province YYY.

As far as Quebec, I would rather see the perspective of the Montreal Impact represented on the board rather than some guy who represents a hundred or so regional association of players who will play for a year and then quite the game and move on to hockey. When you have representation which is solely based on regional/provincial ( AKA political), whose is asking the questions:

1) Why we didn't fair well in Qualifying for the WC?

2) Why our players are up against it (talentwise) in winning spots on Professional clubs?

3) Why our budget and revenues are where they are and not at the level of country ZZZ

4) Why we cant get better attendance for National team games?

5) Are we hiring the right coaches?

6) Do the coaches at amateur level have the right competencies to teach and develop talent for the professional levels

Nope, because if you are on the board to represent the interests of Alberta or Quebec, you will only represent the interest of Quebec and Alberta because that what they sent you there for. All the things such as the six points above don't really matter or are a very distant second. To get those six points on the agenda, you need perspective and input from:

1) Former NT players on international play

2) Professional clubs (Whitecaps, Impact, & TFC) on the skills they need.

3) The business community on how to grow revenues and channel expenditures to grow the game

4) Former Coaches to ensure that amateur players know and understand what needs to be taught and and how it is to be taught.

Well said.

[Vic]

The Committee recommended the following Board structure:

Elected President

Six (6) elected Directors, one from each of the six regions of Canada: BC/YT, AB/NT, MAN/SK, ON, QC, Atlantic

Six (6) appointed Directors, who bring additional skill-sets, experience and capabilities necessary to deal with the challenges and opportunities of today's soccer environment.

No Director will be a member of a Provincial/Territorial Board, in order to prevent a conflict of loyalty.

A minimum of three qualified Directors of each gender.

First, I must have an old Atlas because mine doesn't have "the six regions of Canada" and it sure as Hell doesn't divide a country up evenly like this:

 4,500,000 - BC/YT

 3,750,000 - AB/NT

 2,250,000 - MAN/SK

13,150,000 - ON

 7,875,000 - QC

 2,350,000 - Atlantic

And second, below is the current Board and ExComm. The new board structure of 19 will increase to three women from one. Sorry to be so blunt in the men's forum but we are known around the world for our women's program and almost half the players in Canada are women. Less than 1/6th representation is not acceptable.

And I don't know about the rest of you, but in 40 years I have never played, coached or been involved with a team of 19 whites of either gender:

[Tuscan]

You have to have a board and board members who add a perspective and bring competencies that relate to soccer and growth of soccer and its culture rather than ...

...4) Former Coaches to ensure that amateur players know and understand what needs to be taught and and how it is to be taught.

That is exactly the suggestions of the Constitution Committee, and what Alberta, Quebec, and the Pres and Vice Pres of the CSA were fighting against implementing, as it would remove them from the positions of power. They, of course, were in it for self serving purposes. Having a former member of the Mens Nats and a former member of the Womens Nats on the Board will provide the needed player perspective, having established members of the business community will add the needed business knowledge and skills, and the Board having the power to create accountability and transparency for both itself and the Staff can only help PR with all stakeholders.

[Tuscan]

First, I must have an old Atlas because mine doesn't have "the six regions of Canada" and it sure as Hell doesn't divide a country up evenly like this:

 4,500,000 - BC/YT

 3,750,000 - AB/NT

 2,250,000 - MAN/SK

13,150,000 - ON

 7,875,000 - QC

 2,350,000 - Atlantic

And second, below is the current Board and ExComm. The new board structure of 19 will increase to three women from one. Sorry to be so blunt in the men's forum but we are known around the world for our women's program and almost half the players in Canada are women. Less than 1/6th representation is not acceptable.

And I don't know about the rest of you, but in 40 years I have never played, coached or been involved with a team of 19 whites of either gender:

So you're saying that the needs of and ability to communicate directly with the smaller regions (like Sask/Man and the Atlantic) aren't relevant? (haha this was not twisting the meaning of your statements whatsoever )

Also, ethnic diversity of Board members is one of the goals of the Constitution Committee's recommendations if I remember correctly. Hopefully Jason deVos or It's Called Football will be able to get a full interview with one of the CC members to clarify all of the goals of their recommendations.

[Juby]

And I don't know about the rest of you, but in 40 years I have never played, coached or been involved with a team of 19 whites of either gender:

I thought that was paticularly funny, homogenity (sp?) in this side of the world is... well ...kinda unnatural, were not exactly a nation state. That said it's probably just a coincedence...

[VPjr]

I had serious doubts that this would pass.

I have no doubt that the passing of a new governance model will improve things at the CSA. How much is anyone's guess.

I have faith in Peter Montopoli. I believe he is the right person to entrust with more authority. He is well regarded within the FIFA community as a top drawer administrator and theoretically, he should have much more ability to guide the CSA in a more positive direction, without BoD interference (I'm told that the the Board has been relatively good the past 12 months but this new structure ensures that it will be far more difficult for things to revert back to the ways they were in the bad old days of not so long ago).

I must say that today's announcement is somewhat gratifying on a personal level. I am in no way trying draw a straight line between any of the protests / projects I've been involved with/organized over the past 3 yeas and today's announcement by the CSA, but I know for certain that we played a small part in putting the issue of governance reform at the CSA on the front burner. I'm just happy it stayed front burner for long enough for something to be done. For a bureaucratic organization like the CSA (and all soccer associations), making substantive change in 2 years is the equivalent of warp speed.

I've got my fingers crossed that this is the start of something better. I'm not yet optimistic enough to say it is the start of something good but I hope it is.

[Trillium]

Dude the 50% won't be self-appointed. They will be selected based on the knowledge and skills they will bring to the Board, out of tactical reasoning, not buddy-buddy crap anymore. This Board will actually have checks and balances and transparency.

Okay so who does the selecting .. the elected board members ?

Peter Montopoli...clearly your Executive Director cant select his board ....so that does not work.

Like begets Like, if you want a varied and vibrant board you have to go all the way and democratize fully.

The people who pay the piper get to call the tune, the closest organisation to the players in Canada who pay the CSA bills are

clubs... give them all votes in the AGM get rid of the Provinces and directly elect.

The only other option is to split the CSA have one organisation for Professional and National Teams and let them be self funding, and allow the other organisation run amatuer soccer.

What you percieve as reform ... is not, its a structure to keep the same methods of operation not to structure for success.

[Macksam]

So you're saying that the needs of and ability to communicate directly with the smaller regions (like Sask/Man and the Atlantic) aren't relevant? (haha this was not twisting the meaning of your statements whatsoever )

Also, ethnic diversity of Board members is one of the goals of the Constitution Committee's recommendations if I remember correctly. Hopefully Jason deVos or It's Called Football will be able to get a full interview with one of the CC members to clarify all of the goals of their recommendations.

Well, the board is ethinically diverse. Vic said something about "whites" which refers to race, which as we all should know is socially constructed and doesn't exist. Saying he hasn't been involved with a team full of 19 whites really doesn't mean anything.

[kj52]

There are many things to iron out with this proposed structure and it's a long way from the ideal product. It's a start though and if we're even a little bit closer than the present situation, I'm happy to see it. Just to stop the abuses that happened in Alberta would be good. Looking back, it's completely obvious that the plan to depose Chris Billings was not "made in Alberta". As the CSA executives opposed to change looked at who was supporting change and who wasn't, there's no doubt they made a list of who might be vulnerable. I'm sure Mr. Traficante, after the ASA AGM in January, looked at the compostion of the ASA Board, put out feelers to Mario Charpentier and Colin Innes, then they made their move to dump Chris. They had to have it done before May so that explains the sudden action out of the blue. What they didn't count on was the trememdous support Chris had accumulated in the rural Districts and with the Edmonton adult leagues, Calgary women and with the clubs. They weren't prepared for the members SGM at all and even though they lost, they ignored the result and the CSA Exceutive welcomed them to Winnipeg. The incredible cynicsm of it astounds me even now.

[jpg75]

It is going to take a while for non-whites to make their way into the politic spectrum of Canadian soccer...just look how long it has taken for the Italians to do so...

[jpg75]

There are many things to iron out with this proposed structure and it's a long way from the ideal product. It's a start though and if we're even a little bit closer than the present situation, I'm happy to see it. Just to stop the abuses that happened in Alberta would be good. Looking back, it's completely obvious that the plan to depose Chris Billings was not "made in Alberta". As the CSA executives opposed to change looked at who was supporting change and who wasn't, there's no doubt they made a list of who might be vulnerable. I'm sure Mr. Traficante, after the ASA AGM in January, looked at the compostion of the ASA Board, put out feelers to Mario Charpentier and Colin Innes, then they made their move to dump Chris. They had to have it done before May so that explains the sudden action out of the blue. What they didn't count on was the trememdous support Chris had accumulated in the rural Districts and with the Edmonton adult leagues, Calgary women and with the clubs. They weren't prepared for the members SGM at all and even though they lost, they ignored the result and the CSA Exceutive welcomed them to Winnipeg. The incredible cynicsm of it astounds me even now.

If the deposed ASA board members lose the court challenge, that would mean they weren't eligible to vote at the CSA AGM. Could that be construed as voter fraud and thereby render the results of vote void?

[Vic]

We used to have the same problem with representation and discrimination in government.

Under Canada's employment equity laws, the government must hire women, people with disabilities, aboriginals and visible minorities in proportion to their share of the labour force.

That may not be law in an NSO, but it is in the parent organisation. And when you replace labour force with registered soccer community you don't end up with 90% men and 100% white.

[Vic]

If the deposed ASA board members lose the court challenge, that would mean they weren't eligible to vote at the CSA AGM. Could that be construed as voter fraud and thereby render the results of vote void?

That's a great question...

[Free kick]

I had serious doubts that this would pass.

I have no doubt that the passing of a new governance model will improve things at the CSA. How much is anyone's guess.

Like any anything else, its going to take time to see and realise the benefits.

[Juby]

Well, the board is ethinically diverse. Vic said something about "whites" which refers to race, which as we all should know is socially constructed and doesn't exist. Saying he hasn't been involved with a team full of 19 whites really doesn't mean anything.

not to completely shat on your point (which I don't necessarily disagree with) but it's not completely socially constructed, if two white people have a black kid, everyone can see it, if two white people had a white kid who acted black, no one's really gonna be fooled, It doesn't matter but it's not completely imaginary. It's like when stephen colbert says 'I don't see race', nice sentinment but it's more often then not it's a cover to avoid dealing with race issues.

And for real, we could moan about the diversity of europeans to divy up these guys (and I'm sure like every group, deserved or not their ready to drop the whole 'woe is me' speech, kinda like how even lazy people think they work hard, people from even the most historically peaceful nations will find ways to pity themselves to keep the attention on...themselves) but in this day and age, as much as I think it's a coincidence, how in sweat holy hell to you get 19 people together who are all ethnic europeans? it's bound to happen the odd time cause their's alot of white people in canada, but the bigger group you become, the more people start to wonder 'don't any of these honky's have any non-cracker friends?' (*joke*), vic's point is perfectly fine, visible minorties in canada play soccer at a far greater rate then 1/19th (5.26%), it could be a coincedence but I really do not think the more 'worthy' representatives are all coincedentally white guys right now, I don't really think these 19 guys are racists either. I think it's indicititive of a lack of communication at local levels (especially in urban areas).

[Free kick]

Why has the central theme and discussion point of this thread been hijacked to a discussion on societal gender and racial issues?

We want this organization to to be run in more business-like manner and here we are having people put forward notions of racial and gender quotas. WELL THAT'S THE SAME THING AS THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAD UP TO NOW, NAMELY REPRESENTATION BASED ON WHERE YOU COME COME FROM. Hence its all the same, one province one vote affords you a quota of 10% representation which is the same as saying we must have XX% female, or YY% of a certain culture or ethnicity.

To be run more "business like", the board representation must bring viewpoints based on skills and competencies that relate to soccer rather than things that have nothing to do with soccer such as : the province you are from, your gender, the colour of your skin, your culture, your religion...etc.

[Juby]

Why has the central theme and discussion point of this thread ben hijacked to a discussion societal gender and racial issues?

We want this organization to to be run in more business-like manner and here we are having people put forward notions of racial and gender quotas. WELL THATS THE SAME THING AS THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAD UP TO NOW, NAMELY REPRESNSTATION BASED ON WHERE YOU COME COME FROM. So its all the same, one province afford you a quota of 10% represntation that is the same as sayng we must have XX% female, or YY% of a certain culture.

To be run more "business like", the board represatation must bring viewoints based on skills and competentcies that relate to soccer rather than things that have nothing to do with soccer such as : the province you are from, your gender, the colour of your skin, your culture, your religion...etc.

my bad, i thought it was a funny comment and it bugs me when someone counters a lack of diversity with 'hey, no diverstiy!? almost every type of european is represented' and that little joke has me laughing again, my bad

edit: at the end I did kind of touch on a real point, you don't see alot of CSA branding locally 'brought to you by the CSA' should be on alot more things then it is, I always thought a good idea would be to just start giving away jerseys now while their not selling, if everyone had a canada jersey in their closet and just saw the term 'CSA' around more in more local initiatives (ie get involved if your not already) then it would be more established in nations psyche and their would be less of a 'Canada?' attitude.

[TFCRegina]

If we're going to start talking about quotas for different races, you're gonna lose a lot of people.

In my experience, you want the most qualified people doing the job, regardless of race.

I doubt those 19 are the most qualified, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a set of 19 other white people who are more qualified. Your skin colour has nothing to do with competency, it just makes people feel better on the inside if they see people other than white people. Pick the best people for the job. If they happen to be of any particular ethnicity or skin colour, so be it. Just make sure they can do the bloody job.

[Vic]

Why has the central theme and discussion point of this thread ben hijacked to a discussion societal gender and racial issues?

We want this organization to to be run in more business-like manner and here we are having people put forward notions of racial and gender quotas. WELL THATS THE SAME THING AS THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAD UP TO NOW, NAMELY REPRESNSTATION BASED ON WHERE YOU COME COME FROM. So its all the same, one province afford you a quota of 10% represntation that is the same as sayng we must have XX% female, or YY% of a certain culture.

To be run more "business like", the board represatation must bring viewoints based on skills and competentcies that relate to soccer rather than things that have nothing to do with soccer such as : the province you are from, your gender, the colour of your skin, your culture, your religion...etc.

Is this thread better if we all start screaming?

I raised a point about representation I'd like to see addressed if reform is on the table. If you consider that hijacking apologies.

Had the Government of Canada adopted your we-can-look-after-ourselves methodology there would be very few women or minorities working for the federal government. And if your point is the CSA is an exception and capable of self-governance I (and history) beg to differ.

I'd like to see the next 30 years aren't reshuffling the deck and more of the same second fiddle for constituent groups like women who represent almost half the population and funding of Canadian soccer. If you want to label that childish or brand it amateur and unpatriotic and unpure feel free. But perhaps if you were a member of that group and had a lifetime of memories of inequity you would have a different viewpoint.

[kj52]

This is the letter sent by the CSA to Chris Billings and Mario Charpentier. Mario forwarded it to a very long list of people so I don't think it could be considered confidential anymore.

May 4, 2010

Alberta Soccer Association Board of Directors

Attention: Mr. Mario Charpentier

Alberta Soccer Association

203, 9440- 49 Street

Edmonton, AB, T6B 2M9

Mr. Chris Billings

60 Champlain Place

Beaumont, AB T4X 1R8

Dear Mr. Charpentier and Mr. Billings,

In follow up to the correspondence of 3 May 2010 sent by the legal counsel of The

Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) to the legal counsels of the Alberta Soccer

Association (ASA) and Mr. Christopher Billings and the correspondence received after

this notification, I wish to offer the following clarification:

1) The Canadian Soccer Association maintains its position with regards to the

current validly elected Board of Directors of the ASA (as elected and confirmed in

January 2010 at the Annual General Meeting of the ASA).

2) Since the ASA remains a member in good standing of the CSA, the ASA, as a

member, has the right to be represented at the CSA Board of Directors'

meetings. Since ASA cannot be represented by its President, Mr. Chris Billings,

due to suspension by the ASA Board, ASA will be represented by a member of

the ASA Board of Directors, in accordance with the ASA By-laws. This was

effected at the last CSA Board meeting in March 2010, with approval of the CSA

Board of Directors. This representative will have a voice but no vote at the

meeting of the CSA Board of Directors.

3) Since the ASA remains a member in good standing and has full voting rights at

the Annual General Meeting of the CSA, the delegates registered in due time by

the ASA will represent Alberta. These individuals are: Mario Charpentier, Jeff du

Berger, Colin Innes, and Fred Kern.

Once again, I wish to re-iterate that:

1) All correspondence must be sent through the CSA legal counsel, Kelly Santini

LLP.

2) Any litigation is contrary to the CSA By-laws. The Sport Dispute Resolution

Centre of Canada (SDRCC) shall have jurisdiction over disputes between parties

belonging to the CSA.

Finally, the CSA does not want to be involved in this internal dispute. However, if both

parties (ASA and Mr. Billings) agree, the CSA will be glad to participate in resolving this

conflict.

Sincerely,

Dominique Maestracci

President and Chair

[Macksam]

not to completely shat on your point (which I don't necessarily disagree with) but it's not completely socially constructed, if two white people have a black kid, everyone can see it, if two white people had a white kid who acted black, no one's really gonna be fooled, It doesn't matter but it's not completely imaginary. It's like when stephen colbert says 'I don't see race', nice sentinment but it's more often then not it's a cover to avoid dealing with race issues.

And for real, we could moan about the diversity of europeans to divy up these guys (and I'm sure like every group, deserved or not their ready to drop the whole 'woe is me' speech, kinda like how even lazy people think they work hard, people from even the most historically peaceful nations will find ways to pity themselves to keep the attention on...themselves) but in this day and age, as much as I think it's a coincidence, how in sweat holy hell to you get 19 people together who are all ethnic europeans? it's bound to happen the odd time cause their's alot of white people in canada, but the bigger group you become, the more people start to wonder 'don't any of these honky's have any non-cracker friends?' (*joke*), vic's point is perfectly fine, visible minorities in canada play soccer at a far greater rate then 1/19th (5.26%), it could be a coincedence but I really do not think the more 'worthy' representatives are all coincedentally white guys right now, I don't really think these 19 guys are racists either. I think it's indicititive of a lack of communication at local levels (especially in urban areas).

You make valid points.

Not to side track this thread even further, but I can't stand this term "visible minorities". As the UN have pointed out, it's racist since it singles out a group that is comprised of people who have very little in common with one another. It is just an alienating term that divides us even more for no reason what so ever. If somebody called me a visible minority, I would floor them and smash mma style elbows on their face until a bloody gash appeared.

[Macksam]

my bad, i thought it was a funny comment and it bugs me when someone counters a lack of diversity with 'hey, no diverstiy!? almost every type of european is represented' and that little joke has me laughing again, my bad

I wasn't trying to counter the lack of diversity with that. It just bugs me when someone still thinks race exists when it does not. You need to evolve your thinking if you still call people "black", "white" or the laughable term of "brown".

[Tuscan]

Okay so who does the selecting .. the elected board members ?

Peter Montopoli...clearly your Executive Director cant select his board ....so that does not work.

Like begets Like, if you want a varied and vibrant board you have to go all the way and democratize fully.

The people who pay the piper get to call the tune, the closest organisation to the players in Canada who pay the CSA bills are

clubs... give them all votes in the AGM get rid of the Provinces and directly elect.

The only other option is to split the CSA have one organisation for Professional and National Teams and let them be self funding, and allow the other organisation run amatuer soccer.

What you percieve as reform ... is not, its a structure to keep the same methods of operation not to structure for success.

I believe the appointed Board members will be selected by the Nominations Committee, who will have strict guidlines as to the necessary credentials of the people to seek out. Don't worry, it's not like they haven't thought of things like this

[Tuscan]

This is the letter sent by the CSA to Chris Billings and Mario Charpentier. Mario forwarded it to a very long list of people so I don't think it could be considered confidential anymore.

May 4, 2010

Alberta Soccer Association Board of Directors

Attention: Mr. Mario Charpentier

Alberta Soccer Association

203, 9440- 49 Street

Edmonton, AB, T6B 2M9

Mr. Chris Billings

60 Champlain Place

Beaumont, AB T4X 1R8

Dear Mr. Charpentier and Mr. Billings,

In follow up to the correspondence of 3 May 2010 sent by the legal counsel of The

Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) to the legal counsels of the Alberta Soccer

Association (ASA) and Mr. Christopher Billings and the correspondence received after

this notification, I wish to offer the following clarification:

1) The Canadian Soccer Association maintains its position with regards to the

current validly elected Board of Directors of the ASA (as elected and confirmed in

January 2010 at the Annual General Meeting of the ASA).

2) Since the ASA remains a member in good standing of the CSA, the ASA, as a

member, has the right to be represented at the CSA Board of Directors'

meetings. Since ASA cannot be represented by its President, Mr. Chris Billings,

due to suspension by the ASA Board, ASA will be represented by a member of

the ASA Board of Directors, in accordance with the ASA By-laws. This was

effected at the last CSA Board meeting in March 2010, with approval of the CSA

Board of Directors. This representative will have a voice but no vote at the

meeting of the CSA Board of Directors.

3) Since the ASA remains a member in good standing and has full voting rights at

the Annual General Meeting of the CSA, the delegates registered in due time by

the ASA will represent Alberta. These individuals are: Mario Charpentier, Jeff du

Berger, Colin Innes, and Fred Kern.

Once again, I wish to re-iterate that:

1) All correspondence must be sent through the CSA legal counsel, Kelly Santini

LLP.

2) Any litigation is contrary to the CSA By-laws. The Sport Dispute Resolution

Centre of Canada (SDRCC) shall have jurisdiction over disputes between parties

belonging to the CSA.

Finally, the CSA does not want to be involved in this internal dispute. However, if both

parties (ASA and Mr. Billings) agree, the CSA will be glad to participate in resolving this

conflict.

Sincerely,

Dominique Maestracci

President and Chair

Does this blow anyone else away as much as it does me??

[Juby]

I wasn't trying to counter the lack of diversity with that. It just bugs me when someone still thinks race exists when it does not. You need to evolve your thinking if you still call people "black", "white" or the laughable term of "brown".

I didn't want to go back into this, but black is now a perfectly fine term again, it was african-canadian for a while but black has come back because african canadian is too many syllabels. the reason their is a need for these groupings is because alot of people still discriminate based on these things so right or wrong your in a 'colbert bubble'. As for your hatred of the term visible minority, I am perplexed, it just means you are amoung the group who may be vulnerable to the racist members of the majority for superficial reason(here I'm basically agreeing with you but your dogmatism solves nothing), if you were in africa, you would be a visible minority, a lot of people would refer to you as 'that white guy', some people would dislike you before you even met them (ie, rednecks). Now I'll try my best to shut the hell up, which will be easier if we all desnottify.

edit: last thing, sorry, TFCregina early I agreed it was probably a coincidence, and I agreed here it can coincedentaly happen again but the odds for 19/19 white people in canada is very rare. I fully agree though, hire the best person for the job, and right now were just joking (thinking it's a coincidence) but eventually bizarre coincidences just seem suspicious (not yet or anything).