Massive Attack Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 El Hombre is 100% right on this. Its one thing to have a rivalry. But some of the stupidity and trolling that has been allowed to go on at this forum is so annoying that I can't really blame some posters for not wanting to even bother dealing with it. Hiding behind 'rivalries are good' is a total cop out. Some people just want to discuss soccer. What a crazy concept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 No El Hombre, you are not alone. One only has to count the number of threads started (or taken off topic) recently to see this is baiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 No El Hombre is not right about this. First of all his comparison meant to show that us Montreal supporters are worse than the Toronto ones is completely false and also shows some of the bias with which he is looking at the situation. He is comparing two threads about completely different situations. The Impact made a great Champion's League run in which they went far further than anyone expected only to fall apart in the last moments of a game against a team that was far superior than them. It was like David fighting 4 giants and finally barely succumbing to the last one. Of course this story was popular and the team received a lot of support from across Canada. An equivalent to this would be if TFC had managed to qualify for the playoffs in the last game but then went on an amazing run and only lost in last minutes of the final game. Sure the hardcore Montreal supporters would be happy they lost the final just like the hardcore Toronto supporters were happy we lost in Torreon but the response would be much more muted because they would have made a great achievement that failed at the last hurdle as opposed to being complete failures. A more valid comparison to TFC losing 5-0 to RBNY would be between our 6-1 loss in the Voyageurs Cup and believe me we took our share of stick from supporters from TO and elsewhere on here over that. And again I am not complaining just showing that this claim that TFC fans are not treating us as badly as some think we are treating them is false. Now to the issue of how people should behave on this board. Any forum where the supporters of several teams who are fierce rivals meet will have a certain amount of trash talk and rivalry among the more intellectual discussions. I don't think this is a bad thing because passionate fans is what will grow the game in this country. Every Canadian team has at least one forum where people can go if they want to discuss things in a non-partisan manner. At the moment the Voyageurs forum is where the fans of all three teams meet and it is bound to get more heated and passionate. If we want to stop this and have this site as only a forum where people are unified about the national team we could get rid of the team forums or moderate them in such a way that people who want to fight over the teams go elsewhere to do so such as Bigsoccer. I personally think that would be a big mistake. We have spent many years in this country trying to build both professional club soccer and a passionate national team base. For years national team games consisted of loud animated foreign team supporters and Canadian soccer fans who watched the game quietly. Now we are starting to build a supporters culture and actually make our home games to be home games in reality not just name. To do this we need the supporters groups and passionate fans not just the guys who will sit quietly in the stadium and passively cheer Canada while analyzing the play. Most of these are the same guys who are also very passionate about their club teams and dislike their rivals. If we suppress the club rivalries and passion in this forum this is not going to help the passion for the national team. I certainly respect those people who are more neutral, intellectual Canada fans but the hardcore club supporters should have their place in the Voyageurs as well and if they don't it will be a big loss for the Voyageurs. I feel as if I am fighting the same battle here as I have been against the Impact in convincing them that we have our place in the stadium as well as the families. I think the club has realized this with the atmosphere we created this year and I think we have seen things also start to change in our stadiums at the last WCQ. Does anyone think that if we went to the Honduran or Mexican equivalent forums to the Voyageurs that the fans of rival clubs are not at each other? Yet they always support the national team together very passionately both home and away. I want to be part of an organization that has passionate Canada supporters. If we want to become some quiet, intellectual soccer debating society then count me out. 90% of the posts are intellectual, analysis or contain information but if the 10% of posts that are rivalry based (and almost entirely on the club forums) are unacceptable to other posters then I will leave the forum. I have certainly thought about leaving the Voyageurs before and concentrating solely on UM for various reasons. During the last WCQ I was in the supporters section with some of my biggest "enemies" from other teams and I will guarantee you we were united in supporting Canada in a manner far more passionate than most of the neutrals here. That is how I conceive of the Voyageurs but if that is not what others want then maybe a new, more hardcore Canada supporters group needs to be created. And as an aside since you are a mod and are talking about the Voyageurs reputation, one of the biggest complaints one hears about the Voyageurs and why people don't post here is that it is poorly moderated. Despite the initial initiative with the new team to change things it has continued to be moderated in the old manner of "do nothing". If you want to improve the level of the debates get rid of those posters who contribute nothing but only try to piss people off. When people make offensive comments take immediate action. In my opinion having a mod complain about the Voyageurs reputation is like having a policeman who spends all his time in a doughnut shop complain that noone is following the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Wow. Interesting. A couple points: 1) The comparison I made is apt for a number of reasons. What it showed was the reaction to a game against an unrelated opponent. Not once did a TFC supporter feel the need to show up and make light of the fact that the Impact blew a 4-0 away goals lead (that may have been because TFC was not involved in the game in any way). Yet, we have virtually 3 pages of non-TFC fans doing just that here. Supporters groups should expect some stick when Impact and TFC play each other. My point was that jumping at every opportunity to stick it to the other team's supporters, even when your team is not involved, gets tiring. 2) I think I've made the point that rivalries are great. I've said that explicitly twice now. You've got to stop making everything so black and white. What I'd like to see is somewhere in the middle of where we are now and the police state you outline above. 3) Your contention with the moderation of this board is very well documented. Moderation is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Personally, I like trying to be as inclusive as possible and hope that banning people and deleting comments is a last resort. Some may not agree with that tact, but that's the way I'm trying to do things. I'd be more than happy to continue discussing moderating techniques in another forum though. However, even though I am a mod, I hope that I'm still allowed to have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre I had a feeling this would come up. Please re-read what I've written. Rivalries are great. They'll definitely help grow the game and I'm all for them. When Montreal plays TFC in the Voyageurs Cup, I'm more than happy to wade through 8 pages of pregame banter. Sometimes it's actually quite entertaining. However, using every opportunity available to poke the other team's fans gets tiresome and, in fact, drives people away from here. I don't think I'm alone on this, but if I am, I'll gladly step aside. Again, compare the two threads. Imagine the ****storm we would've had if TFC fans waxed poetic about what a disgrace the Impact were after ****ting the bed against Santos. Nope. You are not alone.... I would concure 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I think my opinion on the subject is well known. It's maybe been a year since I first about this subject. I agree 100 % with El Hombre here and good to see some posters agreeing with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Don't TFC fans realize that if the club is being treated unfairly by Impact and Caps fans it is because it is recognized as the most important in Canada? If no one is trying to hammer you and mock you it is because you are unimportant and no one cares. Imagine the message boards in Spain tonight after Alcorcón 4-Real Madrid 0 in the Cup. Now if it had been Depor losing like that there would not be even 4% of the comments. TFC fans should be revelling in the role of being the team to hate. When you are no longer that team, it will be because you really are shiite and the others have long passed you into MLS glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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