Reed says Canadians should support TFC

[Montreal_FC_fan]

This is club football not the MNT.

Screw TFC.

[Tuscan]

It's tough to support a club who got in due to the current rules set not fitting the competition format, but I do hope they pull it out in Puerto Rico, moreso for the chance that Canada get a direct seed into the group stage from here on out.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Tuscan

It's tough to support a club who got in due to the current rules set not fitting the competition format

Huh?

[squizz1402635577]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Huh?

I'm going to assume Tuscan means that TFC only won the Canadian Championship because, due to the current competition format, Montreal saw fit to field their C-team in the final game, and Toronto advanced ahead of Vancouver only by running up the score against said C-team.

Which, really, is a pretty tough point to argue against.

[RS]

That's not TFC's fault (nor their problem).

[Richard]

^ Well, the tournament format helped them, not superior play which is unfortunate. I am sure the format was setup on the not unreasonable assumption that all teams would be ethical in their approach. Well not all teams were so I suspect the format will change next year if the Whitecaps have anything to do with it.

But since TFC is the 2009-10 Canadian representative I am 100% behind them. Pity they bombed the first game against PRI.

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Sorry it bothers you, Curtis. From a graphical perspective (my family

has a graphic arts, as well as a financial background) I find it looks

better. That's why newspapers have columns, not continuous lines

without any breaks. But it's really just a preference, like anything.

Nah, I don't mind, it's easier to read, and it's nice meeting someone else with a different post format.

Awesome new word filter, way frigging better than the last one!

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ Well, the tournament format helped them, not superior play which is unfortunate. I am sure the format was setup on the not unreasonable assumption that all teams would be ethical in their approach. Well not all teams were so I suspect the format will change next year if the Whitecaps have anything to do with it.

But since TFC is the 2009-10 Canadian representative I am 100% behind them. Pity they bombed the first game against PRI.

Well, what do you want ?

If the "each team playing two games against each other, one home and one away" format isn't the most used around the world, what is ? They don't play in the same league, so a specific tournament has to be played. Once that is established, what could be done differently next year that would still be 100 % logic, acceptable and fair ? If the Caps find themselves at 8th in USL D1 with one game in hand to secure the 7th and final spot for the playoffs and this game appears to be against Cleveland (and you win 6-1 cause they don't care, season's over), will you cry for the unfortunate team that will get bumped out of the playoffs ? Will you claim high and loud that the league format is bullsh*t and ask for a change ? No cause every team plays 3 times against every other teams, half of them two times at home, half of them two times away, the same good ol' basic format we see everywhere.

The real problem in this case is the number of fully pro canadian-based soccer clubs. There will be only three for a while so you better get used to it... like we all get used to your trolling posts.

[Richard]

The number of teams participating is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. I would add one more game to the existing format, top two teams from the round robin play off against each other for the cup. That would resolve the issue of unethical teams rolling over in meaningless games the way Montreal did. Your comparison with playing for the 7th spot in the USL playoffs is trivial, whole different situation with very different consequences.

So because you disagree with my stated positions I am a troll eh! What does that make you?

[squizz1402635577]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

That's not TFC's fault (nor their problem).

You're absolutely right.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

The number of teams participating is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. I would add one more game to the existing format, top two teams from the round robin play off against each other for the cup. That would resolve the issue of unethical teams rolling over in meaningless games the way Montreal did. Your comparison with playing for the 7th spot in the USL playoffs is trivial, whole different situation with very different consequences.

So because you disagree with my stated positions I am a troll eh! What does that make you?

Even if you add a final you would still have the possibility to see something similar to the MTL situation happening. Imagine this situation before the final round robin game:

1Vancouver has 9 pts (3 wins)

2MTL has 3 pts (1 win, 3 loss)

3TFC 3 pts (1 win, 2 loss)

MTL is ahead of TFC on the tie breaker. The last game is Vancouver vs TFC. Vancouver is already assure to be receiving the final so decide to field their B team. TFC wins against Vancouver in the last game and people (mostly MTL fans) complains about the format....

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I would add one more game to the existing format, top two teams from the round robin play off against each other for the cup. That would resolve the issue of unethical teams rolling over in meaningless games the way Montreal did.

Let's see...

VAN 0-1 TOR |-------------|

MTL 0-0 VAN | TOR = 7 pts |

MTL 0-1 TOR | VAN = 3 pts |

TOR 0-0 VAN | MTL = 2 pts |

VAN 0-0 MTL |-------------|

For the final game (TOR @ MTL), TFC plays their C-squad cause they're already in and MTL wins the game, excluding VAN from the playoffs. Would it be better ? Ask yourself the question...

Second scenario: if the final standings are

VAN = 12 pts

MTL = 2 pts -> Playoff game: MTL @ VAN

TOR = 2 pts

After a 0-0 draw, MTL wins on penalty kicks. I'd like to see your face if that happens...

THERE'S NO PERFECT FORMAT.

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Even if you add a final you would still have the possibility to see something similar to the MTL situation happening. Imagine this situation before the final round robin game:

1Vancouver has 9 pts (3 wins)

2MTL has 3 pts (1 win, 3 loss)

3TFC 3 pts (1 win, 2 loss)

MTL is ahead of TFC on the tie breaker. The last game is Vancouver vs TFC. Vancouver is already assure to be receiving the final so decide to field their B team. TFC wins against Vancouver in the last game and people (mostly MTL fans) complains about the format....

Quicker than me You're so tough to beat on quickness

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Your comparison with playing for the 7th spot in the USL playoffs is trivial, whole different situation with very different consequences.

I'd say it's the same situation. In both scenarios it's about a team denied it's chance to go further because of a team that has its fate already sealed and plays its B- or C-sqaud for that reason.

quote:Originally posted by Richard

So because you disagree with my stated positions I am a troll eh! What does that make you?

No, I just said what is obvious. Anyway, I didn't say "You're a troll". I said you are often making trolling posts because in each and every thread you like it to be "Richard vs. the World". There's no need for me to justify that since many long-time posters (and way longer than me) has already stated that before.

[Richard]

Errr.... I make trolling posts but I am not a troll? That's about as logical as most of your posts generally are.

[Richard]

I didn't suggest that adding a final game between first and second was the perfect solution but it would be a definite improvement over the current format. What's your suggestion for improvement?

[loyola]

Richard, I quote you:

"That would resolve the issue of unethical teams rolling over in meaningless games the way Montreal did". Like the biologist (cool name BTW ) and I have demonstrated it could still happen.

The only way to have a perfect solution is to have a real Cup format like they have everywhere else in the world. But we would need more teams so I guess we are stuck with the current format or a similar one with the possibility for a team to have to play a meaningless game...

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Errr.... I make trolling posts but I am not a troll? That's about as logical as most of your posts generally are.

You can say stupid things without being a stupid person.

You are making provocative posts yet I didn't read all of your 5k+ posts. I didn't want to reduce you as a troll because of that, so I say you're making trolling posts. But if you really want me to call you a troll, just ask me...

Anyway, I'm about the 3764th person you're calling illogical, so... [|)]

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Richard, I quote you:

"That would resolve the issue of unethical teams rolling over in meaningless games the way Montreal did". Like the biologist (cool name BTW ) and I have demonstrated it could still happen.

The only way to have a perfect solution is to have a real Cup format like they have everywhere else in the world. But we would need more teams so I guess we are stuck with the current format or a similar one with the possibility for a team to have to play a meaningless game...

Excellent demonstration of contradiction. And still I'm the illogical one ? loyola, you said it all. Richard's solution is NOT an improvement at all. There's NO IMPROVEMENT possible as long as there's only 3 teams.

BTW loyola, biology is what I'm studying. Thx for the compliment but I must admit my username ain't original at all...

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

[Pathetic especially when one thinks about how many times posters on this very forum (and mostly English speaking ones from western Canada since the majority of Quebecois go to the games live) have posted about watching Impact games on SRC. Did you graduate from the Ben Knight School of Inaccurate Journalism?

[squizz1402635577]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Grizz,

We have a mutual friend who tells me that this internet tough guy stuff you spout on here is really just an act and that you are actually a stand up guy

Based on that quote, I'm guessing the mutual friend isn't Ben Knight.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Grizz,

We have a mutual friend who tells me that this internet tough guy stuff you spout on here is really just an act and that you are actually a stand up guy that just wants to see the sport grow. So I choose to believe that. So how about we both just chill on this TFC v Impact stuff for a while. It's a little dull. We aren't going to convince each other that we're wrong, are we?

(But one last dig. If you don't like what I write, start your own blog. It's free. Hell, e-mail me and I'll let you post what you want on mine -- 25,000 page views a month...)

You see MediaGuy, this post just sums up everything wrong with you and your attitude. Since you have been on this forum (and your blog as well) you have claimed to be a national soccer journalist but have been arrogant, incredibly biased and often inaccurate and fail to research your topics adequately. It is one thing to have views that are different than mine but another completely when it is obvious those views are based on complete bias and ignorance. As a journalist you are supposed to be less biased than us fans and supporter group members not more biased. As a journalist, not knowing that one of Canada's TWO yes only two professional soccer teams other than TFC has a national television contract is incredibly ignorant and pathetic especially when this has been mentioned numerous times on the forum by members who are just regular posters here. As a Canadian soccer journalist you should have been watching these telecasts. Pointing this out and other fallacies you write makes me the bad guy? I am the internet tough guy who spouts stuff as an act but according to his friend is a "stand up guy"? Nice olive branch.

If you want me to respect your views then lose the pompous attitude and start learning something about the other teams in Canada besides TFC. For one thing, just because you have access to certain contacts and inside information as a journalist doesn't make you knowlegdeable about soccer. There are so many people here who post far more knowledgeable posts here than you and some of them are TFC fans and you don't see me arguing with them over their views. Even the guys I do argue with and seldom agree with like Rudi, I respect their views a lot more than I do what you post. You seem well on your way to becoming a pro-TFC and pro-soccer Bob McCown and if that is your personality or the way you want to make your name then that is your choice but don't ask me to respect it. Have you noticed that when Steven Beauregard writes articles on your blog they are well received and regarded not only by Impact fans but also by TFC and Caps fans even though he is not even a trained journalist? Judging by the blog comments even a lot of TFC fans dislike what you write. Again if that is what you are trying for it is your right but don't ask me to agree or respect it.

As to our mutual friend, it is his choice whether he wants to associate or be friends with you. It has nothing to do with me. And no squizz, he is not Ben Knight although even though I am often critical of Ben as I have said before personally I think we both like and respect each other. But yes that was a dig at Ben who also often doesn't research properly and writes inaccurate stuff. Sometimes I think he actually does it on purpose to piss people off because as we all know Ben has a weird sense of humour. When he gets criticized for inaccuracy on the forum (not only by me) he often makes sarcastic comments that seem to purposely inflame the criticism.

Many posters on this forum do a lot of research and think quite carefully about what they post. Some are more biased than others partially depending on how hardcore they support any one team and I certainly don't claim to be unbiased. Yet considering how much knowledgeable and accurate information is posted here is it too much to ask that those journalists who are posting here (or writing in various media) are at least equal if not above the level of a good poster, ie. well informed and not incredibly biased.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

If the mods wouldn't be threatening me and Grizzly with banning everytime we respond to each other, as they are in fact doing, I would agree fully with his last post. But I can't. I am not allowed.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

If the mods wouldn't be threatening me and Grizzly with banning everytime we respond to each other, as they are in fact doing, I would agree fully with his last post. But I can't. I am not allowed.

(I hope I don't get banned for that smiley!)

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

You see MediaGuy, this post just sums up everything wrong with you and your attitude. Since you have been on this forum (and your blog as well) you have claimed to be a national soccer journalist but have been arrogant, incredibly biased and often inaccurate and fail to research your topics adequately. It is one thing to have views that are different than mine but another completely when it is obvious those views are based on complete bias and ignorance. As a journalist you are supposed to be less biased than us fans and supporter group members not more biased. As a journalist, not knowing that one of Canada's TWO yes only two professional soccer teams other than TFC has a national television contract is incredibly ignorant and pathetic especially when this has been mentioned numerous times on the forum by members who are just regular posters here. As a Canadian soccer journalist you should have been watching these telecasts. Pointing this out and other fallacies you write makes me the bad guy? I am the internet tough guy who spouts stuff as an act but according to his friend is a "stand up guy"? Nice olive branch.

What are you talking about that I don't "research?" The Impact have 10 games on the French CBC (and I'm sorry that I didn't remember that when I made the post). The thing is it doesn't change the thesis. How does that give them anywhere near the profile of TFC in this country? That's my position. That TFC has a higher profile. The fact that you argue against that suggests that you're either a troll or a bit dense. IT'S PAINFULLY F UCKING OBVIOUS THAT THEY DO.

Forget TFC vs. Impact. Let's just make it MLS vs. USL-1. I'm sure Vancouver posters will agree that the Whitecaps move to MLS has received about 10X more coverage than anything they did in the USL. That's all I was saying. Why, other than your blind hatred of all things me/TFC, would you argue against something that damn obvious?

As an aside, here is why I post under the name MediaGuy: When I first started posting it came after several years of lurking. At the time I did not think I was going to do anything other than make a single post that was about media coverage. I felt that the prevailing attitude on the board at the time about the lack of coverage -- that it was a conspiracy to keep the game down -- was wrong and failed to address the core reason why -- that the game wasn't popular enough. So, I chose the name to reflect what I was arguing.

I HATE the name now because it opens me up to pedantic attacks from people like you who are looking for reasons to go after me. I post under the name SweetOwnGoal on most soccer boards I belong to (and would prefer to do so here). That is when I'm not doing so under my actual name.

Or, to put it simply I don't claim to know more than the rest of you. However, I do claim to work my ass off at researching the domestic game, which is why it's so damn offensive to me when you make posts like you have above. If you respect me so little Grizz stop reading me. To be blunt I don't need your page views because I get plenty from elsewhere.

By the way having contacts and access to information is EXACTLY what makes a journalist. The old adage taught in j-school is that you are only as good as your sources. What you are trying to argue is that I’m not a good analysis. First off I don’t really claim to be a tactics guy – although it’s football not astrophysics so I’m pretty sure I can hold my own. Secondly, having an opinion about someone’s opinion is highly subjective. But thanks for your feedback.

And why the Spaniard is jumping into this conversation is anyone's guess.