Reed says Canadians should support TFC

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

And if you want me to stick to facts, here you go:

The Impact's home attendance numbers so far this year

12246

12180

11470

11483

11561 (TFC game. Uh-huh. Maybe you should be quiet about "actual fans in the stands" when attempting to discredit TFC because we all saw this one and know that the number is pure bull$hit)

8047

12287

12676

11581

5047

11827

12213

11948

That's an average of 11120, which is a nice number for USL. But it isn't 20,000, which is all I said. I'm pretty sure Quebec is like the rest of the country when it comes to the hard, undeniable fact that 11120 is less than 20,000.

As for TV, by my count there will be 22 Impact games available on French TV - so easily accessible to about 7 million Canadians, less so to the other 25 million. I'm happy those games are on TV, but when you are talking about having a truly national footprint you need to be broadcasting in the language of the majority (To be clear I'm not suggesting that the Impact should broadcast in English as Quebec is a French society. Obviously they need to be broadcasting in French in PQ. But what we are arguing here is NATIONAL exposure). NO ONE outside of the hardcore fan watches a sporting event broadcasted in a language they don’t speak. We aren’t talking about getting the games out so a Voyageur can watch. We are talking about getting them out so your typical EPL-mostly football fan can (or, better yet, a kid that has yet to be influenced by Eurosnob attitudes.

The Impact are on national English TV three times this year. TFC 37. Again, how is that even close to being the same?

Ask yourself this: What team is a 12-year-old living in Moose Jaw most likely to start to support – TFC or the Impact.

Above are FACTS. Supported FACTS. If you want to attack my position, attack those FACTS rather than me Grizz. Otherwise...

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

(I hope I don't get banned for that smiley!)

I'll take the bait.

Going to interrupt this topic for a minute, whether that's okay with everyone or not, to ask both you gentlemen a question.

Where you fellows approached by the mods with an opportunity to have the no-contact restriction lifted but declined to do so? Twice I believe?

Respond here, privately. Whichever you prefer.

Or don't.

[Trident]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh duane! You jumped headfirst into this one...

1. You said the impact don't have a National TV contract, they do.

2. You "work your ass off" for the domestic game..but either didn't know/forgot that IMFC was national. Dude, it's not like you have to remember 30 teams, why can you forget stuff about three professional teams, while working your ass off? Maybe you should work better, not harder, because you don't seem to be doing too good.

3. Who cares what language it's broadcasted in? My dad can't speak french, and he always watched on the SRC instead of Bold during our run. The point is it's on a national station, which makes it a national broadcast. Stop trying to defend the fact you're a know nothing fake, with technicalities like "oh, it's not in english, so I didn't count it as national!"

Jesus, it's a game, not a sitcom, you still understand when there's a goal, a red card, etc. it's not like they broadcast soccer to people who speak french, but if you only know english, it shows up as Quidditch.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

Stop trying to defend the fact you're a know nothing fake, with technicalities like "oh, it's not in english, so I didn't count it as national!"

I'm reading, but don't see that quote anywhere.

If you're going to call someone out on a "technicality", don't go changing the quotes to fit your argument.

What he's saying has merit. No one outside the hardcore fan is going to watch a sport in another language. In responding to that, you didn't actually address the point but rather went after the poster (which is a running theme among some here).

I know you're piling on to the anti-MG bandwagon here (because, of course, he supports TFC), but please don't be intentionally dense in doing so.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

The Impact are on national English TV three times this year. TFC 37. Again, how is that even close to being the same?

This caught my eye.

I'm surprised that TFC is on national TV 37 times. What do you mean by "national English TV"? Is this just the amount of times TFC can be seen on TV if you have Sportsnet and Gol?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

I'll take the bait.

Going to interrupt this topic for a minute, whether that's okay with everyone or not, to ask both you gentlemen a question.

Where you fellows approached by the mods with an opportunity to have the no-contact restriction lifted but declined to do so? Twice I believe?

Respond here, privately. Whichever you prefer.

Or don't.

Because the new mods, at what seems to be your pathetic after-the-fact prompting, started threatening us with a ban because we AGREED with each other rather amicably on a thread.

And of course no one in their right mind is going to agree to that, I am glad Grizzly felt the same way I did about it.

If we get out of line again in the same extreme way, fine, ban us, give us a week or two, we both have other things we can do. We can live with it. But if we are agreeing with each other, or just making observations about question not concerning us personally on the same thread, don't send us these pompous threats in the name of Cheeta.

According to this assinine state of things Grizzly should not post on the Julian's Future threads I start, and I should not post about the Impact pretty well ever.

Instead of the new mods thinking for themselves, Cheeta is still moderating through them. Mods, think for yourselves and stop letting Cheeta in the same half-ass, partial way he did before.

What the new mods should do, instead of just blindly and irrationally following Cheeta's badly construed criteria, is just wipe the slate clean. They did it for his botched moderating jobs, they can do it for the botched attempts at forum discussion Grizzly and I fell into a few months ago.

Instead of sending us threat mail.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

This caught my eye.

I'm surprised that TFC is on national TV 37 times. What do you mean by "national English TV"? Is this just the amount of times TFC can be seen on TV if you have Sportsnet and Gol?

Yes.

Edit to add: Of course Gol has far less reach than the CBC, but I will argue that its reach is similar to the French CBC when you are looking at English households. The argument here is what team has more exposure. I've yet to hear an Impact poster actual argue the Montreal's exposure is better or the same as TFC. All they seem to want to do is to attack my credibility without attacking the actual argument.

If you don't think that Montreal has the same or better exposure than TFC then why are you on here debating the point? BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I EVER SAID.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh duane! You jumped headfirst into this one...

1. You said the impact don't have a National TV contract, they do.

2. You "work your ass off" for the domestic game..but either didn't know/forgot that IMFC was national. Dude, it's not like you have to remember 30 teams, why can you forget stuff about three professional teams, while working your ass off? Maybe you should work better, not harder, because you don't seem to be doing too good.

3. Who cares what language it's broadcasted in? My dad can't speak french, and he always watched on the SRC instead of Bold during our run. The point is it's on a national station, which makes it a national broadcast. Stop trying to defend the fact you're a know nothing fake, with technicalities like "oh, it's not in english, so I didn't count it as national!"

Jesus, it's a game, not a sitcom, you still understand when there's a goal, a red card, etc. it's not like they broadcast soccer to people who speak french, but if you only know english, it shows up as Quidditch.

You didn't even remotely read what I wrote. "A know (sic) nothing fake." Yeah, that's some real solid debating going on right there.

The FACTS I've posted above. Please respond to the FACTS.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Instead of the new mods thinking for themselves, Cheeta is still moderating through them. Mods, think for yourselves and stop letting Cheeta in the same half-ass, partial way he did before.

What the new mods should do, instead of just blindly and irrationally following Cheeta's badly construed criteria, is just wipe the slate clean. They did it for his botched moderating jobs, they can do it for the botched attempts at forum discussion Grizzly and I fell into a few months ago.

Instead of sending us threat mail.

<mod>Alright, Jeffrey, you've said your piece. I hope you are happy with it and I hope this also puts an end to posts such as was quoted by Cheeta.

If you wish to discuss this further or address any other slight, please feel free to message me or any of the other mods. This goes for everyone else on the forum: we (or at least I) am always available if someone wants to discuss something. 90% of the time, a little bit of communication will resolve things.

Rest assured, the new mods are "thinking for themselves" and are consistently in contact about various topics regarding forum moderation.</mod>

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Yes.

If that's the case then, I think it's hard for you to argue on one hand how the French language broadcasts should be discounted because only the hardcore footy watcher would watch it in a different language while then on the other hand use GolTV to support your argument which would only really be ordered by that same hardcore footy watcher.

I think what's important is that all TFC home games are broadcast on CBC while all Impact home games are broadcast on SRC (I believe), and CBC is generally more watched giving TFC a wider base to work from.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

If that's the case then, I think it's hard for you to argue on one hand how the French language broadcasts should be discounted because only the hardcore footy watcher would watch it in a different language while then on the other hand use GolTV to support your argument which would only really be ordered by that same hardcore footy watcher.

I think what's important is that all TFC home games are broadcast on CBC while all Impact home games are broadcast on SRC (I believe), and CBC is generally more watched giving TFC a wider base to work from.

I addressed your point above in an edit.

Do you think that Montreal has the same level of exposure (among general soccer/sports fans) as TFC? That's what started this. I've suggested that TFC/MLS has a greater level of exposure. I'm being attacked for stating something that is pretty damn obvious.

Let me ask the question again: If you are a 12-year-old kid living in Moose Jaw with an interest in soccer (and no one older in your life to influence your thinking) is it more likely that you will start to follow TFC or Montreal based on the current exposure of both clubs?

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

If that's the case then, I think it's hard for you to argue on one hand how the French language broadcasts should be discounted because only the hardcore footy watcher would watch it in a different language while then on the other hand use GolTV to support your argument which would only really be ordered by that same hardcore footy watcher.

I think what's important is that all TFC home games are broadcast on CBC while all Impact home games are broadcast on SRC (I believe), and CBC is generally more watched giving TFC a wider base to work from.

Yes they are. And I totally agree with your point. Then again, I believe there's more little kids in Moose Jaw that can actually watch SRC than GolTV, maybe even Sportsnet.

Hey, during my childhood I watched so many games in english because I wanted to watch hockey. I understood sweet f*ck all but a goal is a goal. And you know what, I watched so many things in english, now I can express myself in Shakespeare's language. Maybe if you do the same with SRC...

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by the biologist

Yes they are. And I totally agree with your point. Then again, I believe there's more little kids in Moose Jaw that can actually watch SRC than GolTV, maybe even Sportsnet.

Hey, during my childhood I watched so many games in english because I wanted to watch hockey. I understood sweet f*ck all but a goal is a goal. And you know what, I watched so many things in english, now I can express myself in Shakespeare's language. Maybe if you do the same with SRC...

And I envy those in French Canada for that. It's not the same in English Canada though. It really, really isn't.

English Canadians very, very rarely watch French TV. We are undoubtedly lesser for that, but it doesn't make the situation any less true.

[loyola]

From what I remember MTL has 12 games broadcast on National TV (SRC) while TFC has the same amount. That, to me, is equivalent exposure regardless of the language. Like the biologist said, soccer fans will watch a game no matter the language of the commentator.

Where TFC has more exposure is with the Sportsnet and GOLTV broadcast for their remaining games. Yes, those chanels aren't available like SRC/CBC but the people who are paying for it have more chance to get a TFC game than a MTL game. That's where the difference lie IMO.

Edit: I also want to add that the league they are playing in is also contributing to the exposure. From my personal experience most of my club teamates wouldn't be able to name the league MTL is playing in while they all know what the MLS is. I'm telling you that and I'm living in Quebec City which is a 2hrs 1/2 ride from MTL.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

English Canadians very, very rarely watch French TV. We are undoubtedly lesser for that, but it doesn't make the situation any less true.

Is this another one of these "FACTS" we keep hearing about so loudly?

I remember watching literally thousands of Expos games on French TV.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

From what I remember MTL has 12 games broadcast on National TV (SRC) while TFC has the same amount. That, to me, is equivalent exposure regardless of the language. Like the biologist said, soccer fans will watch a game no matter the language of the commentator.

Where TFC has more exposure is with the Sportsnet and GOLTV broadcast for their remaining games. Yes, those chanels aren't available like SRC/CBC but the people who are paying for it have more chance to get a TFC game than a MTL game. That's where the difference lie IMO.

Sporsnet is hardly a niche channel. It's in about 7 million households (so about 21 million canadians have access to it)

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Is this another one of these "FACTS" we keep hearing about so loudly?

I remember watching literally thousands of Expos games on French TV.

That was your first mistake. []

If we're going to go with personal anecdotes as some sort of sweeping statement for the entire country, I barely watch SRC or TVFO. The only reason it's 'barely' and not 'never' is because I've watched the odd Impact game on SRC. But then, I love watching soccer.

Obviously since this story applies to me, it applies to everyone else.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^My point exactly. Duane doesn't watch French TV, hence neither do the rest of us.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Is this another one of these "FACTS" we keep hearing about so loudly?

I remember watching literally thousands of Expos games on French TV.

Yes and your individual anecdote clearly negates all that I'm saying.

Outside of the core audience, how many people to you really think watch programming in a different language than they speak?

I’m essentially arguing that the sky is blue, but whatever.

Does anyone really think that TFC doesn’t have the highest profile of any club in the country.

I’m NOT saying they are the best club, or the coolest club, or the only club worth supporting – it’s your own defensiveness that goes there. I’m just suggesting that they have the most exposure. Forget the 12-year-old kid. Walk down to the street corner in Moose Jaw and ask 100 12-year-old kids to name a professional soccer team in Canada. Do you think the Montreal Impact are going to be the first thing that comes off their lips?

Jesus, seriously, why is it so hard to admit that TFC has the highest profile? It doesn’t make you less of a person, or less of a supporter of the game. It’s bloody common sense. Arguing against the idea is INSANE (hell, blame the Toronto media is you want. It doesn’t make it less true). The only place is the world where you could find anyone that believes that TFC doesn’t have a higher profile than Montreal or Vancouver is here at the Voyageurs.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

^My point exactly. Duane doesn't watch French TV, hence neither do the rest of us.

And because you do everyone does?

(we could go around in this circle all day)

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

I addressed your point above in an edit.

Do you think that Montreal has the same level of exposure (among general soccer/sports fans) as TFC? That's what started this. I've suggested that TFC/MLS has a greater level of exposure. I'm being attacked for stating something that is pretty damn obvious.

Firstly, I don't think you're being attacked. You are in the unenviable position of having a widely-read blog. That means that what you write will be scrutinized more closely than something posted on a forum like this.

Secondly, I agree with your point. The problem is, you are doing a poor job of defending it. This is mostly due to assumptions you make which gets people's back up. Saying things like "English Canada doesn't watch French TV" is wrong. When I'm flipping through my cable channels, I check to see what on between channels 3 and 48 first. SRC is in that range, so if I see Impact vs. Rhinos de Rochester, I'll watch that and turn off the commentary (something that more and more people are doing these days). It happens with less frequency that I happen to come across channel 428 to see what GolTV is showing. So, in that instance, SRC actually is more available to me than GolTV. This same thing happens with hockey, champions league soccer, NFL football etc. And before you dismiss me as some sort of sports nutjob, most of my friends do the same thing. It all depends on who's showing what you want to see.

Your basic premise is correct, you just have to stop backing it up with sweeping generalizations. Compare CBC to SRC and there you have it.

Also, the thing with Sportsnet is that it isn't guaranteed in every basic cable package, like CBC and SRC are (not 100% sure on SRC, so please correct me if I'm wrong).

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

^My point exactly. Duane doesn't watch French TV, hence neither do the rest of us.

And I do watch French TV. I'm just not delusional enough to think that my habits reflect what less obsessed soccer fans do.

[loyola]

Duane, I'm not sure many here are arguing against your point, but many are picking on some claims you are making such as the one involving RDS and Impact and about english people not watching french TV.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

Firstly, I don't think you're being attacked. You are in the unenviable position of having a widely-read blog. That means that what you write will be scrutinized more closely than something posted on a forum like this.

Secondly, I agree with your point. The problem is, you are doing a poor job of defending it. This is mostly due to assumptions you make which gets people's back up. Saying things like "English Canada doesn't watch French TV" is wrong. When I'm flipping through my cable channels, I check to see what on between channels 3 and 48 first. SRC is in that range, so if I see Impact vs. Rhinos de Rochester, I'll watch that and turn off the commentary (something that more and more people are doing these days). It happens with less frequency that I happen to come across channel 428 to see what GolTV is showing. So, in that instance, SRC actually is more available to me than GolTV. This same thing happens with hockey, champions league soccer, NFL football etc. And before you dismiss me as some sort of sports nutjob, most of my friends do the same thing. It all depends on who's showing what you want to see.

Your basic premise is correct, you just have to stop backing it up with sweeping generalizations. Compare CBC to SRC and there you have it.

Also, the thing with Sportsnet is that it isn't guaranteed in every basic cable package, like CBC and SRC are (not 100% sure on SRC, so please correct me if I'm wrong).

Again you are making an individual anecdote. If I'm guilty of generalizing then so are you.

The ratings of French programming in English parts of the country suggest that most Canadians do not watch programming outside of their first language. Is that better?

If you disagree, then find me the facts to support your position. What are the Impact’s TV numbers?

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Duane, I'm not sure many here are arguing against your point, but many are picking on some claims you are making such as the one involving RDS and Impact and about english people not watching french TV.

Honestly, look at the posts. I'm not the one that is making absolute statements. Clearly, I understand that there are exceptions. It's others that are holding up their habits as being reflective of the rest of the country (I watched Expos games so...).

Very, very rarely (which is what I said) isn't never.