Ben Knight Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The team that isn't here. http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/05/05/the-team-that-isnt-here/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Another spin: the gender that isn't here... we have as many females playing as males in Canada - and they have no trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 ^^Not true really. There is the Jubilee Trophy. http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/bootroom/viewArtical_csa.asp?Press_ID=3362 Already posted in the Other Leagues subforum about the snippet in today's Globe and Mail story by Peter Mallett about the CSL joining the CSA. If that is for real there may finally be some validity to the concept of the CSL winners getting into the Canadian Championship in a couple of season's time. http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19339 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Great post today Ben Obviously, as someone who enjoys CSL footy tremendously, I believe that the CSL champion would be a worthy candidate for entry into the V's Cup after the initial 2 year trial period elapses. Ultimately, the soccer powers that be need to create an incentive for the various senior leagues across the country to become more "professional". If there is a big carrot at the end of the road, I can assure you that there will be deep pockets, soccer loving owners across the country who will make the investment to make their clubs competitive. there are some owners who are already very professional (Serbian White Eagles and Brampton Lions FC of the CSL are two groups that I am particularily excited about....they are ambitious, well funded, extremely well coached and have talented rosters). I have no doubt that both of those clubs would do their best to load up in hopes of earning the 4th spot in the V's Cup. As I've mentioned in an another thread, I sincerely believe that the Serbian White Eagles are the 4th best team in the country and I have no doubt that they would give the fully professional sides a serious test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:^^Not true really. There is the Jubilee Trophy. http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/bootroom/viewArtical_csa.asp?Press_ID=3362 You're wrong. We don't have a national championship that let's the best teams in Canada into it. The best teams are fractionally the provincial amateur club champions, they are the 8 W-League teams, and no doubt the CIS champions and provincial U18 champions could and should be able to mix it up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 All you said was that they have no trophy. Is there an equivalent of the Champions League for women in a CONCACAF context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 ^ Step by Step Vic. Once the V's Cup gets where it needs to get, I have no doubt that they will look to address the need for a V's cup for the women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 What cow patch would host the Grand Duchy of Serbia Heroes of the Balkans White Mountain Gorillas home games?? Great branding there! Nutrilite or whatever would be running for the hills before the ink dries on the CSA deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The same cow patch the Toronto Lynx of USL Division 1 called home for their final few years... But I'm with you on the ethnic name thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Great post today Ben Obviously, as someone who enjoys CSL footy tremendously, I believe that the CSL champion would be a worthy candidate for entry into the V's Cup after the initial 2 year trial period elapses. Ultimately, the soccer powers that be need to create an incentive for the various senior leagues across the country to become more "professional". If there is a big carrot at the end of the road, I can assure you that there will be deep pockets, soccer loving owners across the country who will make the investment to make their clubs competitive. there are some owners who are already very professional (Serbian White Eagles and Brampton Lions FC of the CSL are two groups that I am particularily excited about....they are ambitious, well funded, extremely well coached and have talented rosters). I have no doubt that both of those clubs would do their best to load up in hopes of earning the 4th spot in the V's Cup. As I've mentioned in an another thread, I sincerely believe that the Serbian White Eagles are the 4th best team in the country and I have no doubt that they would give the fully professional sides a serious test. Yes, fine blog Ben. My personal feeling is that the CSL should NOT receive an automatic spot but should play in a preliminary competition or "earlier round" depending on how you want to phrase it. I'd like to see the PCSL have some sort of presence as well. Of course there are the PDL clubs. So, a first round being strictly regional followed perhaps by an east v west play-loff for the fourth spot. Finances will be the barrier but I most definitely don't want the CSL champion being the automatic #4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Most people outside of Southern Ontario have never heard of the CSL, indeed I wonder how many even there are aware of it. How can it possibly be regarded as Canada's national professional league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegasAlexandros1555362277 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by L.T. The same cow patch the Toronto Lynx of USL Division 1 called home for their final few years... But I'm with you on the ethnic name thing... I have to disagree here about the name. A lot of people have issues with the "North American" team names that clubs in the MLS, for example, decide to use, or worse yet, when they try to gain instant credibility by copying some Euro name. The fact is the Serbian White Eagles have been around for something close to 40 years and I see nothing wrong with them having chosen a name which references their history and their roots. In Greece we have AEK (Athlitiki Enosis Konstantinoupoliton), PAOK (Panthessalonikeon Athlitikos Omilos Konstantinoupoliton) and Panionios (Pan + Ionia, Ionia=Asia Minor) whose names and emblems are clear references to the origins of the club and their respective founders. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Call me crazy, but I rather like it when there is real meaning and history behind a name, not just something marketing people put together. My 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed What cow patch would host the Grand Duchy of Serbia Heroes of the Balkans White Mountain Gorillas home games?? Great branding there! Nutrilite or whatever would be running for the hills before the ink dries on the CSA deal. Sooner see people with a bit of passion for the sport involved than the Calgary Disinterested Youth Soccer Group Sales with half the crowd playing with the mascot on a bouncy castle behind one of the goals during the game. They could always find a brand of slivovitz or something like that to replace Nutrilite as the sponsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard Most people outside of Southern Ontario have never heard of the CSL, indeed I wonder how many even there are aware of it. How can it possibly be regarded as Canada's national professional league? Richard, FIFA has deemed it Canada's national professional league. Pure luck but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Here's an idea...you've said many times that some top PCSL teams are likely paying players under the table. Why don't you guys just declare yourself a professional league, have those players paid in an open and transparent way and then strip the CSL from the title of "Canada's only professional league" which it has given itself? I'm not being a smart-ass...I'm sincerely curious. From what you've explained to me about the structure of the PCSL, it's already a better organized league than the CSL in terms of having promotion/relegation. By the way, many people inside Southern Ontario who would deem themselves huge soccer fans (but who don't pay attention to Canadian soccer) had never heard of Montreal Impact until they made their run in the CCL and got some well deserved publicity for it. Club soccer in Canada is a very well kept secret. The way I see is that we need to create the incentive for ownership groups and senior leagues in general to become more professional. Granting entry into the V's cup for a "wildcard" team is a major step to creating the necessary incentive. How that wildcard is chosen is not my concern. My concern is that we drop the petty mudslinging and instead focus on creating aspriational opportunities for senior team operators who wish to take on the "big boys" of Canadian soccer. What on earth is wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard Most people outside of Southern Ontario have never heard of the CSL, indeed I wonder how many even there are aware of it. How can it possibly be regarded as Canada's national professional league? Richard, FIFA has deemed it Canada's national professional league. Pure luck but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Here's an idea...you've said many times that some top PCSL teams are likely paying players under the table. Why don't you guys just declare yourself a professional league, have those players paid in an open and transparent way and then strip the CSL from the title of "Canada's only professional league" which it has given itself? I'm not being a smart-ass...I'm sincerely curious. From what you've explained to me about the structure of the PCSL, it's already a better organized league than the CSL in terms of having promotion/relegation. By the way, many people inside Southern Ontario who would deem themselves huge soccer fans (but who don't pay attention to Canadian soccer) had never heard of Montreal Impact until they made their run in the CCL and got some well deserved publicity for it. Club soccer in Canada is a very well kept secret. The way I see is that we need to create the incentive for ownership groups and senior leagues in general to become more professional. Granting entry into the V's cup for a "wildcard" team is a major step to creating the necessary incentive. How that wildcard is chosen is not my concern. My concern is that we drop the petty mudslinging and instead focus on creating aspriational opportunities for senior team operators who wish to take on the "big boys" of Canadian soccer. What on earth is wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The only thing FIFA have done in that regard is put the CSL standings on their website. Having said that if the CSA are now serious about having a division three regional semi-pro setup from coast to coast it is probably a step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The only thing FIFA have done in that regard is put the CSL standings on their website. Having said that if the CSA are now serious about having a division three regional semi-pro setup from coast to coast it is probably a step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Sooner see people with a bit of passion for the sport involved than the Calgary Disinterested Youth Soccer Group Sales with half the crowd playing with the mascot on a bouncy castle behind one of the goals during the game. They could always find a brand of slivovitz or something like that to replace Nutrilite as the sponsor. agree with you 100% - the majority of North American sports names are a bunch of crap and at times have no connection with the city - Calgary Flames being a prime example. Soccer is about organic passion - it's one of the main attractions of the sport. Making it soccer mom friendly isn't the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr ... FIFA has deemed it Canada's national professional league. False. Wrong. Not a Fact. Untrue. FIFA have not formally recognized a national professional league for Canada. FIFA regulations require that a national professional league be both national in scope and professional in personnel. The CSL meets neither requirement. At best, according to FIFA rules, it could be considered a Division 3 league as it is regional and semi-professional. Your continued use of a proven mistake on a FIFA website as "evidence" is, at best, wishful thinking on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The 6 PDL teams will get in before the CSL teams. There is a rumor that the 3 western teams and 3 eastern will each have mini tournaments, the winners will play each other and the winner of that will get a fourth spot in the C-Cup. If that works they might look at expanding to the other leagues. Why PDL do you say? You have to look at who is really running this tournament, its the three cubs in it. Since they are affiliated with the PDL, they want them in before allowing some complete outsiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Is there an equivalent of the Champions League for women in a CONCACAF context? Nothing. UEFA has had the Women's European Club Championships for almost a decade, and this year have upped it to the Women's Champions League. Yet in Canada we have no interest in determining who is the best team in the country. What a tragic loss for half the players in the country and 100 times worse a wasted opportunity to grow the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by piltdownman The 6 PDL teams will get in before the CSL teams. There is a rumor that the 3 western teams and 3 eastern will each have mini tournaments, the winners will play each other and the winner of that will get a fourth spot in the C-Cup. If that works they might look at expanding to the other leagues. Why PDL do you say? You have to look at who is really running this tournament, its the three cubs in it. Since they are affiliated with the PDL, they want them in before allowing some complete outsiders. I think that after this edition of the Voyageurs Cup, its totally up in the air as to who, if anyone, will get in. I do not believe, not for a second, that PDL teams can feasibly be part of this tournament without major changes to the structure of the PDL. let's suggest that, somehow, FC London won the Voyageurs Cup. Their season ends at the beginning of August and their players go back to their various club teams or Universities. How does that team represent Canada? I just can't see it. 2nd, I simply do not believe that there is a single PDL team in Canada that can hold a candle to the top CSL teams. I don't know the quality of the PCSL but I'd hazard a guess that the top teams in that league would give PDL teams a serious test. I sincerely believe that the CSA is looking to be more inclusive and are not naive enough to believe that PDL teams are good enough to justify being granted a 4th spot in the V's cup. Now, if they do a tournament to determine the best PDL club and that team can stay together long enough to participate in a tournament including other top senior teams, I'd be all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Vic Nothing. UEFA has had the Women's European Club Championships for almost a decade, and this year have upped it to the Women's Champions League. Yet in Canada we have no interest in determining who is the best team in the country. What a tragic loss for half the players in the country and 100 times worse a wasted opportunity to grow the game. Honest question....why are the women waiting for men to organize this tournament. If it is that important (and I agree that it is a good thing) why aren't the groups who run top level women's senior soccer in Canada working in concert to put something together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by ted False. Wrong. Not a Fact. Untrue. FIFA have not formally recognized a national professional league for Canada. FIFA regulations require that a national professional league be both national in scope and professional in personnel. The CSL meets neither requirement. At best, according to FIFA rules, it could be considered a Division 3 league as it is regional and semi-professional. Your continued use of a proven mistake on a FIFA website as "evidence" is, at best, wishful thinking on your part. I've never said the CSL has been formally recognized as the national league of Canada. What I've said is that FIFA makes the claim on their website that it is. Whether they are right or wrong, that's what the world's governing body has on their website. I really don't care, to be honest. What I do care about, and what keeps getting ignored by some people who appear to have anti-CSL agendas and who prefer to derail the converation, is that the important part of this whole discussion is the need to create incentives to grow senior men's soccer in a more professional manner. What I know about the CSL leads me to sincerely believe that there are some clubs in the league that are not far from being what I would consider a true professional club. There are also plenty who are very far from achieving such a designation, no matter what they claim. With greater incentives, there is greater liklihood that a better quality of owner would get involved in the league, bringing up the organization's quality tremendously. I'd like the same incentives dangled in front of league's like PCSL and other top senior provincial leagues who are prepared to become more professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by ted FIFA regulations require that a national professional league be both national in scope and professional in personnel. Not even the CSA or the provincial associations have professional personnel and they are the governing body, how can you then expect the CSL to have what the ones that control the money don't have. FIFA, CONCACAF and the other continental association do, accept, turn a blind eye or simply ignore or approve whatever is convenient to them. Their rules and regulations are as flexible as a $100 bill is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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