Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 L.T.,Toronto MB and all others serious about this, E-mail me: dgrollins (@) gmail.com Let's get it set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Toronto MB Realistically, I think we should target the South-Side. As it will be dificult to make a a visual impact on the staium as a whole. But I could definitely see the whole supporters section dressed in black. I agree. Any effort to hand things out should be around that end. However, we should call on all fans to wear black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobiiiiiiiilio Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Guys..the moment you "limit" something you seriously hurt the impact and you're trying to have....go big or go home....this does not just affect the south side of BMO and the supporters groups...it affects every person who plays the sport in this country and everyone that pays and registers with their local and provincial associations....small goals..small coverage..small outcome.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto MB Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Mobilio. Agreed. It does affect us all. But in pure logistics do you really think we can make an impact in getting even 1 out of 10 non-south-end supporter to wear black. I personally don't. I think all of the aprrox 3-4 thousand in the south end wearing black is plenty significant of an impact. And will serve as an effective launching pad for our petition demanding an independant review of the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 How about small red cards held up to "send off" the CSA board? We did that at a TFC game with yellow cards one time to try to nudge the ref into booking opposing players. Not so hard logistically as the t-shirt thing to create a major effect visually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 In its own thread, but I'll post it here as well: A coalition of Canadian soccer fans is convinced that the future of Canadian soccer is black. As such, the group is calling on all fans attending the September 12 friendly between Canada and Costa Rica to wear black to the game as a symbol of their frustration and hopelessness about the state of the game in this country. We believe that without significant changes to the way the sport is administrated in Canada there is little hope that Canada will ever see success at an international level. Specifically, we are calling on Sport Canada to create a more professional, efficient and accountable environment at the Canadian Soccer Association with the express purpose of better cultivating our elite players and national programs. If the current CSA administration is unwilling to change its way of operation, we are asking that it be disbanded and replaced with a new organization. We don’t believe Canada’s failure to thrive at the sport is a lack of talent problem; we believe it’s a CSA problem. Please join us Sept. 12 by wearing black to the National Soccer Stadium. (a paragraph about us—something that says that we aren’t just three crackpots) For more information please call (name) at (number). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 I'm going to post this again because it ended up at the bottom of the last page (and some may miss it). If you are serious about doing something please e-mail me at dgrollins (@) gmail.com. I will organize a meeting. We need to move now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 My two cents: I don't like the wearing black idea. There may be a sizeable contignent of Tico fans there all dressed in their team's colours and I feel quite strongly that we should be combatting that with Canada's colours - jersey's & flags, etc. And that means not wearing black, unless they change the colour of the flag before Sept. 12th. This should be all about supporting Canada, which includes visually. I think protest banners would get the message across better than some people wearing black would. As such, I will be wearing either red or white, depending upon which Canada jersey I choose to wear that day. This game has been a long time coming & I intend to devote my full energy & enthusiasm in a positive way for Canada & show the team un-conditional support, and that to me includes wearing the jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 how about wearing red and waving black flags? Wearing black arm bands? As for doing things outside the stadium like selling jerseys or handing out flyers isn't that a little risky? Since the CSA has vested interest in the stadium would they not take precatuion and have security remove people from selling black t-shirts at the stadium? I'd set up post a block away or at the nearest transit hub where the most walk up would be. Having only driven by the stadium I don't know exactly where that would be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Once you have decided what to wear or maybe nothing at all,make sure you let the media know,just in case GL would be naked and than levoila. Never mind I suggest whatever you do that night or even organize some protest rallies earlier on, the media must know etc. If this rallie is organized maybe some fliers could be handed out as well and in it list all our grievances as well as recommendations. Invite Colin as a guest speaker,only kidding... Here we go, The Canadian Soccer Revolution, the storming of the walls of BMO field. Bring More Organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto MB Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 GL - I am so very glad you chimed in on this issue. Not to get sentimental, but in many ways I regard you as the one of the wise god-fathers of the operation. My initial response to the black idea was similar to yours, but ultimately we are truly doing the best thing we can to stimulate the change the players deserve. We should try and make sure the key players on this boards are supporting of whatever we do if we are going to tie it into the Vee's. So everybody out there, please join in, and share your ideas and/or support for this one. In a broader sense GL, and I only ask because I respect your opinion, do you feel that an independant review of the CSA is what we need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca My two cents: I don't like the wearing black idea. There may be a sizeable contignent of Tico fans there all dressed in their team's colours and I feel quite strongly that we should be combatting that with Canada's colours - jersey's & flags, etc. And that means not wearing black, unless they change the colour of the flag before Sept. 12th. This should be all about supporting Canada, which includes visually. I think protest banners would get the message across better than some people wearing black would. As such, I will be wearing either red or white, depending upon which Canada jersey I choose to wear that day. This game has been a long time coming & I intend to devote my full energy & enthusiasm in a positive way for Canada & show the team un-conditional support, and that to me includes wearing the jersey. This frustrates me. Why do you think wearing black--while still cheering on the team--is somehow an affront to the players? The best way NOT to show unconditional support to the players is to show up like nothing happened. Ultimately, wear whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Toronto MB In a broader sense GL, and I only ask because I respect your opinion, do you feel that an independant review of the CSA is what we need? I think that's where it starts, yeah. You can only change something like the CSA successfully if done impartially & from an informed point of view. I am suspicious of some of the suggestions here being from either, but I'll say no more of that for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy This frustrates me. Why do you think wearing black--while still cheering on the team--is somehow an affront to the players? The best way NOT to show unconditional support to the players is to show up like nothing happened. In your opinion, not mine. The best way to show unconditional support is to un-conditionally support them, in a way which the players & general public alike can readily see and identify. People scattered here and there wearing all-black (for an evening game) won't do that in my view, especially if there's any sort of meaningful Tico presence, I think it could actually be counter-productive. Nobody said you had to pretend that nothing has happened, but wearing black is not the way to go in my books. I'm going out there in my Canadian colours, proudly cheering on the Canadian boys & I'm sorry if you have a problem with me supporting the boys that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca You can only change something like the CSA successfully if done impartially & from an informed point of view. Having seen how soccer clubs, leagues and associations work in southern Ontario Colin Linford's comments about people only looking out for their own interests first rang true for me. Nothing will change unless people at the grassroots and amongst the national team fan base rock the boat as the people involved in running soccer in this country are usually only concerned with looking after their own ego/power trip and are often amongst the very last people that would be appointed for similar posts in a private sector business. These people usually fear and resist any kind of beneficial change and any success achieved is despite of and not because of them. There is a basic institutional problem that won't easily be fixed within the context of the current highly balkanized administrative structure. The difference between the people who run the soccer leagues and associations and the likes of genuinely qualified professionals like Paul Beirne and Marc Petitpas at TFC/BMO Field is night and day. Until that changes the CSA is going nowhere fast unlike TFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca In your opinion, not mine. The best way to show unconditional support is to un-conditionally support them, in a way which the players & general public alike can readily see and identify. People scattered here and there wearing all-black (for an evening game) won't do that in my view, especially if there's any sort of meaningful Tico presence, I think it could actually be counter-productive. Nobody said you had to pretend that nothing has happened, but wearing black is not the way to go in my books. I'm going out there in my Canadian colours, proudly cheering on the Canadian boys & I'm sorry if you have a problem with me supporting the boys that way. But how does that get the message out? It doesn't. And everything stays the same. Is that what you want? Going to this game and cheering our hearts out means nothing. Nothing at all. It would just be one more game, forgotten almost immediately. Individually we mean nothing. I don't, you don't. Collectively, we can have a voice. But, to have a voice we have to have something to say. "Go Canada," which appears to be what you are proposing, isn't going to cut it. Year after year all we do is bitch and moan about the state of the CSA. And when we finally have the ear of major media you want to what? Hang a sign and treat it like ever other game. I don;'t have a problem with you G-L; I have a problem with your lack of willingness to take a stand. To me, you are putting your enjoyment of the game (i want to wear my red shirt) over that of the good of the game. That's your choice, but it's too bad. The truth is you have influence here. And instead of using it to ask for change, you are advocating for the status quo. The status quo hasn't been good enough for 26 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Having seen how soccer clubs, leagues and associations work in southern Ontario Colin Linford's comments about people only looking out for their own interests first rang true for me. Nothing will change unless people at the grassroots and amongst the national team fan base rock the boat as the people involved in running soccer in this country are usually only concerned with looking after their own ego/power trip and are often amongst the very last people that would be appointed for similar posts in a private sector business. And that's why it has to be independant & impartial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca And that's why it has to be independant & impartial. I don't even understand why you feel it is necessary to gather this massive body of evidence to confirm an opinion at this point. Yes we'll need to review to pinpoint what to do, but there is no doubt we need change and fresh blood. What is it about the CSA's performance over the last 20 years that leaves us with any doubt regarding the need for radical changes? Us protesting isn't going to stop an independent review, it's going to push towards it. The alternative is the CSA hides in a hole (like it usually does), the pressure goes away, and we're back to our usual disfuctional operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca And that's why it has to be independant & impartial. I don't even understand why you feel it is necessary to gather this massive body of evidence to confirm an opinion at this point. Yes we'll need to review to pinpoint what to do, but there is no doubt we need change and fresh blood. What is it about the CSA's performance over the last 20 years that leaves us with any doubt regarding the need for radical changes? Us protesting isn't going to stop an independent review, it's going to push towards it. The alternative is the CSA hides in a hole (like it usually does), the pressure goes away, and we're back to our usual disfuctional operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca And that's why it has to be independant & impartial. How are you going to get that? There is no direct accountability to the grassroots on the part of the CSA because there are usually about four layers of highly entrenched and self-serving soccer bureacrats insulating the CSA from the people who actually play, coach and referee the game and who largely fund the provincial and national associations with their registration fees. In my opinion, the CSA board of directors will continue on their merry way from expenses paid junket to expenses paid junket unless they are very publicly shamed into drastic change by having the national team fan base vocally telling them to resign en masse on national television. Even then it will probably take some sort of federal government intervention to fully sort this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy I don;'t have a problem with you G-L; I have a problem with your lack of willingness to take a stand. To me, you are putting your enjoyment of the game (i want to wear my red shirt) over that of the good of the game. That's your choice, but it's too bad. The truth is you have influence here. And instead of using it to ask for change, you are advocating for the status quo. And you are getting this idea that I want the status quo & am not asking for change simply because I don't agree with how you have decided I should protest? Has it not occurred to you that I have & can be vocal & getting the voice out in other ways? Let me spell it out for you nice & clearly - I think the CSA needs to be re-vamped and improved, possibly completely reformed. I am not advocating for the status quo. I want to see the CSA run more professionaly, business-oriented & with greater priority placed on the interests of the men's national team. I believe a review from the outside & without any partisan interests is the first step. I believe that while Colin Lindford probably is correct in his vision for what is wrong with the CSA, on the evidence presented thus far he was extremely poor on the execution of those ideas, which unfortunately continued the mess. I am therefore somewhat indifferent to his resignation, exactly in the same way that our players appear to be. I believe that any protest shouldn't actually be a protest but rather focus on something positive for change such as an overhaul of the system that solves the majority of the problem (a la the Crawford report). I also believe that the state of the game is better than it has been for a long time (quality of the team, development of the pro game & popularity the sport) & that if we keep pushing in this direction it will continue to get better. And that's what I plan to keep doing. I also believe I am pretty well sick to death about talking about soccer politics because that's not what I am truly interested in doing, so I'm going to stop. And I don't think myself wearing a black t-shirt in the midst of a whole bunch of people wearing a whole bunch of different colours in S.221 (which is what is going to happen) is going to do a single thing in that regard. Capieche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Did you write this before you read your PMs at the U-Sector site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Toronto MB Beaver we can defiitely use your support in spreading word of such a petition out of the West Coast. For GTA supporters, as I've already said, within the next day or two we need to form an interim committe representing the Voyageurs who will do the following: - carefully design the demonstration and act of protest against the CSA - craft the media release and publicity campaign with a specific attempt to involve U-Sector and RPB - design a mission statement for what pro-active goal we are trying to accomplish, it seems like there is enough of a consensus on an independant review Thank you Toronto MB for taking on a leadership role to get this going. And for being succinct. It's good that ideas are being thrown around and debated, but I think everyone on this board needs to stand together with whatever it is that is decided upon by... which means we definitely need a few to be the "committee leaders"... maybe one person in charge of each of the 3 points... but I think Toronto MB should decide the structure and then put it open for people to "run" for the positions. Unity: We all must stand together here Organized: We have a time frame. In the end we need our thoughts / goal well articulated. Also, everyone needs to feel that they contributed. Visual: It has to be noticeable at the game. (Or heard or not heard as the case may be) Media: They can either make it or break it for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Guys, at the end of the day, this is not a case of "either you are with us or you are against us". I personally wish Gian-Luca was more enthusiastic about the idea using the Sept. 12th match to publicly voice our displeasure with the CSA. It's the best venue we will have, maybe ever, to get the message across, in front of a large and curious media contingent, that there is a large number of people who want better for our national soccer programs. G-L, it's up to you to decide how you want to support the idea of CSA Reform. Some of us will get together to do what we think is right. I will respect your choice to do what you feel is right. As long as you don't actively try to disuade people from supporting those of us who choose a more activist method of protest, we'll all get along nicely. You do have influence here (and deservedly so). All I respectfully ask is that you use it wisely and justly. One thing you can be 100% sure of...when I am in the stands, I'll be cheering for the boys in the Canadian kits. I plan to leave that stadium hoarse, having left my full voice at BMO Field. I would hope that we all do the same during the run of play. But this is precisely why wearing black will make a strong statement. While the TV cameras will pick up the sound of our chants in support of our boys, the image of the south stands filled with black shirts will let those watching at home and throughout the stadium know that something's up. Signs will be important as well but can't be the only means of voicing displeasure. The distribution of handouts before and after the game is also important to clue in those people who don't know what's going on. As you said, this period of time is the best we've seen for Canadian soccer in a while, from a results point of view, but realistically, it's just been 1 year. Structurally, little has changed (as witnessed by the U20 fiasco). Canadian soccer really isn't producing all that much quality. If not for foreign clubs doing all of our development work for us, we wouldn't have much to be excited about. In my view, the goal of any "revolution" to reform the CSA is to change the purpose and focus of the organization. We need a national organization whose sole purpose is to create an infrastructure for player development so that we don't go 20 years between decent chances to qualify for the WC. I truly believe that Canada should be no worse than a top 3 footballing nation in Concacaf, but that can only be true if/when there is a structure in place to breed success. You can't honestly believe that such a structure exists today. And if you agree that the infrastructure does not exist, then you should be in full support of our motives for protesting and seeking change, regardless of whether you agree with all of our tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv Once you have decided what to wear or maybe nothing at all,make sure you let the media know,just in case GL would be naked and than levoila. Never mind I suggest whatever you do that night or even organize some protest rallies earlier on, the media must know etc. If this rallie is organized maybe some fliers could be handed out as well and in it list all our grievances as well as recommendations. Invite Colin as a guest speaker,only kidding... Here we go, The Canadian Soccer Revolution, the storming of the walls of BMO field. Bring More Organization. Don't worry John...key members of the media have been informed today that a movement is afoot. They will be updated of our plans in advance of the game, but only when there is something concrete to tell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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