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quote:Originally posted by ANC2

This site has been plagued with request for change in the CSA. Now the CSA has a shake up and change, everyone talking about protest & writing letters.

Another knee jerk reaction

Respectfully, the problem is that the Voyageurs are not a formal,

collective organization with a specific mandate, nor officers.

As a result, it is difficult to act quickly with purpose or

organization.

Personally I am pretty confused about the CSA, Linford, Nykamp,

and the rest of the baggage that is ruining our focus to WC2010.

I'm not too sure of what I can do to change things effectively,

nor can offer constructive suggestions or remedies.

Do I need to be a member of the CSA first? All I know is that

I'm not happy about things at the moment.

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quote:Originally posted by Trillium - longtime critic of the OSA

Bill ...its simple really.

1) Clubs train players, form teams, enter competitions and own or lease the fields on which to play games.

2) Districts train referees, administer discipline, appoint referees to assignments.

3) Provinical level has no real purpose, as clubs develop players, and districts admin discipline and assign referees.

4) National sets nation wide eligibility and player registration rules, acts to administer discipline from Districts, runs national training centres, determines nationwide structure of game, i.e. league structures, operates natonal teams....

The clubs elect district directors.

The clubs attend national association AGMS to elect national Directors.

Referees associations at district levels ... get a club like vote to exercise at National AGMS.

National team players on Beach Soccer, Futsal, and 11 aside games female and male get to elect 2 player directors on National association as unified group.

Sport Canada gets to place one director on National board.

Change the structure Bill you know darn well what happens at the provinical level is irrelevant it can and should be uploaded to a national football federation.. such things as electronic player registration etc... make it all so easy today versus twenty years ago.

Comments ?

If you are keen on removing a level of government, then an alternative to your suggestion, that seems to be to do away with provincial associations, is to do away with district associations. It has been argued in the past that districts are irrelevant and they should be disbanded with clubs becoming direct members of their provincial association.

However, having been heavily involved at both the district and provincial levels over the past thirty years, I think there is a need for both. One of the complaints I hear in Ontario is about the centralization of ‘power’ in the OSA office in Vaughan. If anything, I favour decentralization or regionalization of certain programmes.

I really don’t think that a further centralization of ‘power’ in a re-vamped CSA in Ottawa (presumably) will be well received in many parts of the country or in Ontario. And with a political system based on the nation as a whole, provinces/territories and then municipalities, I think a similar soccer structure that can communicate with the appropriate level of government for funding and services is needed.

It’s interesting, of course, that while our political and soccer structures are very similar, the finances are quite different. The federal government has control of the money (our money, of course) while provinces, to some extent, and municipalities, to a greater degree, are crying poor. However, in soccer it is the bottom of the pyramid – the clubs – where all the money is while the national association is crying poor.

What the various levels are responsible for is, IMO, key to this discussion. The national body should clearly have the responsibility for running national teams and running elite programmes for players, coaches and referees. Where the dividing line is between elite programmes and mass participation programmes is, again, one of the discussion points.

For example, if Canada is entering teams in all FIFA competitions, then they need to be starting with national teams at U-17. But do they need U-15 and U-16 national teams or can the provinces/regions take care of this themselves provided they follow national guidelines (e.g. provide international experience for these teams within CONCACAF).

The national body should also set the curriculum for all development programmes, establish national standards and monitor to ensure that those standards are met. However, the delivery of those programmes should devolve to the level that can most effectively deliver it in accordance with national standards - which could be the provinces, the districts or clubs.

I could go into more detail with my thoughts on this subject but this post is probably too long already!

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quote:Originally posted by Bill Spiers

If you are keen on removing a level of government, then an alternative to your suggestion, that seems to be to do away with provincial associations, is to do away with district associations. It has been argued in the past that districts are irrelevant and they should be disbanded with clubs becoming direct members of their provincial association.

However, having been heavily involved at both the district and provincial levels over the past thirty years, I think there is a need for both. One of the complaints I hear in Ontario is about the centralization of ‘power’ in the OSA office in Vaughan. If anything, I favour decentralization or regionalization of certain programmes.

I really don’t think that a further centralization of ‘power’ in a re-vamped CSA in Ottawa (presumably) will be well received in many parts of the country or in Ontario. And with a political system based on the nation as a whole, provinces/territories and then municipalities, I think a similar soccer structure that can communicate with the appropriate level of government for funding and services is needed.

It’s interesting, of course, that while our political and soccer structures are very similar, the finances are quite different. The federal government has control of the money (our money, of course) while provinces, to some extent, and municipalities, to a greater degree, are crying poor. However, in soccer it is the bottom of the pyramid – the clubs – where all the money is while the national association is crying poor.

What the various levels are responsible for is, IMO, key to this discussion. The national body should clearly have the responsibility for running national teams and running elite programmes for players, coaches and referees. Where the dividing line is between elite programmes and mass participation programmes is, again, one of the discussion points.

For example, if Canada is entering teams in all FIFA competitions, then they need to be starting with national teams at U-17. But do they need U-15 and U-16 national teams or can the provinces/regions take care of this themselves provided they follow national guidelines (e.g. provide international experience for these teams within CONCACAF).

The national body should also set the curriculum for all development programmes, establish national standards and monitor to ensure that those standards are met. However, the delivery of those programmes should devolve to the level that can most effectively deliver it in accordance with national standards - which could be the provinces, the districts or clubs.

I could go into more detail with my thoughts on this subject but this post is probably too long already!

Bill it has been a clear drive of the OSA to reduce district influence... but the real issue ...is to see the reform on a National basis, doing so gives a clear indication that the Provincial level is irrelevant, let the districts deliver the services, can you name a single NEED that clubs have that cannot be met by the New National Federation ...

I really dont see anything in your response that negates a call to delayer at the provincial level, your suppostion of getting rid of districts leaves one to wonder...how a provincial association in Ontario or Quebec or BC would deliver such things and local discipline or referee training ?

If you agree as you appear to that the provinces should be out of the business of elite training ..then what is left ? What does Vaughan do that enhances club level players elite or recreational that should not be delivered under a National unified program ?

I think your fighting a losing battle the clubs know the provincial bodies are irrelevant ..in a reform movement they must be delayerd and removed.

You talk about what each part of the jigsaw puzzle club, districts etc. should be reponsible for ...surely with you background you can see a model to promote in this time when the soccer community needs a new direction ... looking forward for your model.

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quote:Originally posted by ANC2

This site has been plagued with request for change in the CSA. Now the CSA has a shake up and change, everyone talking about protest & writing letters.

Another knee jerk reaction

PS: Linford by all accounts was all talk, no action

Except Linford advocated for the change that most Voyageurs seem to want, ie. centralizing the power base away from the provincial suits. So therefore this "change" is viewed as a negative, and not a change at all since the parasites within the CSA are still clinging onto power.

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Bill Ault from CanadaKicks has a model. Every time I read it I like it a bit more.

http://www.canadakicks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=547&Itemid=9

for example...

"The grand plan:

Amalgamate the districts into regions based on population of 50,000. This would mean, give or take, two districts in BC, two in Alberta, two serving Saskatchewan and Manitoba, seven in Ontario, three in Quebec and one in the Maritimes. There are currently districts that handle the registration and governance of clubs with 50,000 members and they do it well – in this day and age there is no administrative need for more than this.

Players would register directly with the CSA through their region since there would no longer be a provincial body. It’s the same paperwork but instead of sending to your provincial headquarters you send it to Ottawa. That was easy.

Player development belongs with the clubs – leave it there. Turn existing district programs into regional identification programs leading directly to national training centers. Establish a national training center in each of the regions so players across the country are identified directly by national team personnel on the recommendation of regional and more importantly club coaches.

The club coaches would be able to perform this task better because as part their mandate regional coaches hired and trained (and answering directly to) by our national technical director would convey to club coaches on a regular basis just what the expectations and standards for the development of competitive players at each stage would be.

One final change allow every member of the CSA to vote directly for the people running the ship – one less thing for the middlemen."

Mr. Ault's article is titled, "Canadian Soccer's $50 Million Question" written by Tuesday, 12 December 2006.

Personally, I like Bill Ault's model as a starting point.

And no disrespect to Bill Spiers and his opinions, he's been "hosed, kicked, stabbed" directly and personally by Linford, Knox, et al at the provoincial level here in Ontario. Mr Spiers is in favour of change and as per my "research" hasn't made many friends within the old boys network while he trumpets for change.

Keep up the good work Bill.

Bye the way Bill, any idea of the host hotel for the CSA's October meetings????

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