Vaughan or Downsview Stadiums Still Possible?

[Massive Attack]

Fingers crossed over stadium

Jun 5, 2005

Lisa Queen, Staff Writer - More from this author

Although gun shy about discussing contenders in the running for a stadium, Canadian Soccer Association chief operating officer Kevan Pipe is impressed with Vaughan's pitch to build a 20,000-seat facility in Woodbridge.

"Vaughan is most definitely on the short list. Vaughan is on a very, very short list" of possible sites, he said from his Ottawa office Thursday.

"We had a very impressive meeting with Mayor (Michael) Di Biase last week and the enthusiasm and commitment from the city is outstanding."

However, Mr. Di Biase is worried Vaughan will lose out to Downsview Park in Toronto, owned by the federal government.

"The Canadian Soccer Association has made a proposal to Downsview Park. If it's feasible and a go, that's where it will go. If it's not feasible, our site on Vaughan Grove (on Martin Grove Road south of Hwy. 7) is a very good opportunity," he said.

"If it doesn't happen at Downsview, we're pushing hard to be number 1 and get it built. I want it here in our city but we will see."

Vaughan has a couple of aces up its sleeve that could swing the association's decision in the city's favour, Mr. Di Biase said.

For one, he's been assured $33 million in federal and provincial funding is in place regardless of the location of the stadium.

"I spoke to (federal Citizenship and Immigration Minister) Joe Volpe last week," Mr. Di Biase said. "He is supportive (of building). He said 'We've committed the $25 million for this stadium and it's up to the Canadian Soccer Association to decide where they want it'."

The association needs construction to begin this fall to accommodate the FIFA 2007 World Youth Championships and the Downsview site comes with more hurdles to clear than the Vaughan location, he added.

Meanwhile, the city has lined up the private sector to contribute the remainder of Vaughan's costs, which Mr. Di Biase estimated at $40 to $45 million.

"We have commitments for the rest. We're ready to go," he said.

"We're all set. All we need is for Kevan Pipe to say we're set, we're moving. Hopefully, by next Friday we'll have a decision."

Officials are scrambling to come up with a site in the Toronto area after plans for a 25,000-seat stadium at York University collapsed last month.

The university pulled the plug after the Toronto Argonauts football club backed out of the deal, choosing to remain at the Rogers Centre instead.

Vaughan had backed the university until the deal collapsed.

Now, Mr. Di Biase argued Vaughan has the ideal location because it is the site of the Ontario Soccer Association's headquarters and a training facility of the Canadian association.

A decision on the preferred location will be made within the next four or five weeks, Mr. Pipe said.

Toronto had been flagged to host the world youth tournament, with games also to be played in Ottawa, Edmonton, Montreal, Victoria and Vancouver.

But without a Toronto-area stadium, another Canadian city will be named host and Toronto will be shut out of the event.

Mr. Pipe was reluctant to discuss details about the search for a new Toronto-area location, declining to even say how many sites are in the running.

"We've had a couple of false starts so we're being very careful."

http://www.yorkregion.com/yr/newscentre/vaughancitizen/story/2829854p-3277009c.html

[An Observer]

Sounds positive...interesting that the funding is still available from the feds. I think downsview would be ideal as it has a subway stop but as I haven't lived in the GTA for 10 years...i leave it to others to make comments on the most suitable location.

[Massive Attack]

Location wise, Downsview is probably the best of the two. But it looks like the Vaughan proposal is more advanced financially.

Unless someone steps up soon to add money to a Downsview location (City of Toronto, MLSE?) I think there is a very good chance that this stadium could actually be built in Vaughan.

[Free kick]

Downsview is In my opinion the number 1 choice, Better even than Varsity. Its right in the middle of the GTA, very accessible by all means of transportation, lots of open space.

Have to wonder if its too late now for 2007.

[Robert]

The epic Toronto/Vaughan stadium saga continues.

Points that stand out from the article above:

1) A leader who is gun shy. Now that just exudes a world of confidence.

2) Vaughan is on a very, very short list. Sounds like we've just about run out of options.

3) Joe Volpe. Oh boy. Now there's a politician who can be taken at his word.

4) Meanwhile, the city has lined up the private sector to contribute the remainder of Vaughan's costs, which Mr. Di Biase estimated at $40 to $45 million. Why? Why would the private sector donate this kind of money? Or is it an investment? If so, what kind of a return have they been promised? The good citizens of Vaughan must be smarter than those at the universities in Toronto.

Here's some questions I have:

1) Could someone please tell me if I was staying at a downtown Toronto hotel during the WYC, what public transit busses I would have to take the the proposed Vaughan facility, and what time I would have to leave to arrive in time for a Friday 6:00 kick-off?

2) Does Toronto have much of a rush hour?

3) Would I be better off taking a taxi?

4) How much would that cost from Toronto to Vaughan roundtrip.

5) Does Vaughan have 10,000 hotel rooms?

6) Would the MLS still be interested with a team in Vaughan?

[Ivan]

Earlier reports said a shovel had to be in the ground by October latest for the stadium to be completed in time, while another report said Crew Stadium was ready for play (although not completed) in 9 months.

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Here's some questions I have:

quote:1) Could someone please tell me if I was staying at a downtown Toronto hotel during the WYC, what public transit busses I would have to take the the proposed Vaughan facility, and what time I would have to leave to arrive in time for a Friday 6:00 kick-off?

From downtown Toronto (CN Tower/SkyDome/Union Station, etc.), you take the TTC Vaughan Express #B-312. It stops at the Toronto/Vaughan city limits. Then you hop on the Vaughan bus (I think #47 - but double check cause I'm not sure), which takes you directly to the proposed site.

To arrive for a 6 I'm assuming p.m. kick-off on a Friday, you should be good if you catch the 5:15 p.m. bus from downtown.

quote:2) Does Toronto have much of a rush hour?

No. Unless an accident happens.

quote:3) Would I be better off taking a taxi?

Depends if the driver can speak English. Plus, they don't look to friendly upon non-Italians in Wood-a-brigde.

quote:4) How much would that cost from Toronto to Vaughan roundtrip.

Bus = about $7.50 Taxi = about $40, plus tip of course

quote:5) Does Vaughan have 10,000 hotel rooms?

The last survey I saw said they have 14,157 rooms.

quote:6) Would the MLS still be interested with a team in Vaughan?

As others have pointed out, most new stadiums are in the suburbs so they shouldn't have any problems.

I hope that helps!

[kelownaguy]

Guys how far is Vaughan from Toronto??? On one hand I'd really like to see this 20,000 seat stadium get built,, on the other hand I'd kind of like them to explore every option they have in Toronto before the first shovel has to hit the ground.. You get the feeling that unless some big private investor comes sweeping into Toronto with his own money to build a stadium,, that this is gonna be's Toronto only shot for a long time to get government money to build one (I think the CSA probably realizes this too after hearing about this Downsview proposal now) Ideally we'd love to have this stadium right in the heart of GTA ,, but if it can't be done then it looks like Vaughan will be hosting a lot of the eastern national games along with Montreal...

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by kelownaguy

Guys how far is Vaughan from Toronto???

I wish I had a point of reference that we both knew in order to explain. A Montreal guy asked the same question here about 3 weeks ago and I said that Vaughan was to Toronto what Laval was to Montreal in terms of geography.

Basically, the boundary of Vaughan and toronto is separated by one long main street called Steeles Ave. Steeles is about 1 km north of Finch if you are going up Yonge street where the subway runs. Finch is the last and furthest north subway station. It take about 30 minutes to go ( by subway) from the down town core to Finch subway.

there are not many hotels in Vaughan IMO. Its all new development and really sprawlled exponentially in the last 5-10 years .

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by Elias

No. Unless an accident happens.

Sweet Jesus, when was the last time you drove in Toronto between 3 and 6 pm? And that's being kind in terms of time of day.

Downsview, let's not forget, also has indoor facilties in the old hangars for the kids and some for the senior levels. This could also play a part in where the stadium goes.

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by kelownaguy

Guys how far is Vaughan from Toronto???

Steeles Ave. is the divider (well close enough). The south side of the street is Toronto. The north side of the street is Vaughan. Vaughan is basically the northern part of Toronto. I don't think it's anybody's number one choice, but it's really not that bad.

York U stretches to Steeles. This proposed location is basically just up the road.

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Sweet Jesus, when was the last time you drove in Toronto between 3 and 6 pm? And that's being kind in terms of time of day.

But you agree with the rest of my post? []

[L.T.]

Well, the Martingrove Site has the Ontario Soccer Centre:

- full size indoor field (roughly equivalent to 3 of the Downsview Fields)

- 3 outdoor fields (including 1 fieldturf)

- right next door to 2 new full size fields (Woodbridge SC).

- practice field (part of Holy Cross High School)

And it's about 15 minutes from the airport (and about 10 from my front door!)...

[Massive Attack]

Of all the sites that have been proposed, the Vaughan site is the closest to the Airport. If you're worried about hotels, there are tons on the Airport strip. In fact, I often use Martingrove Rd. as a quick way to get to and from the Airport from Woodbridge when the major highways are full of trafic.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Of all the sites that have been proposed, the Vaughan site is the closest to the Airport. If you're worried about hotels, there are tons on the Airport strip. In fact, I often use Martingrove Rd. as a quick way to get to and from the Airport from Woodbridge when the major highways are full of trafic.

How many fans would go straight from the airport to the stadium? Does a soccer fan really want to stay in a hotel at the airport?

[Loud Mouth Soup]

All right, for all you non-Torontonians, a small guide to locations being discussed and having been dropped like Michael Jackson's pyjama bottoms at a slumber party...

1-Union Station, ACC, SkyD...errr, Rogers Centre general area.

2-Downsview Park

3-Vaughan location of the OSC.

4-York University, former stadium site.

5-U of T, former stadium site.

6-Pearson airport

Now, there is no scale, so...the city of Toronto runs to Steeles in the north (the straight line almost even with the lowest "400" labelling said highway (by the 4 showing you York U), to the west along the 427, and along the east near the other 27 (that one on the right, cause...uhhh, that's east!)

[Elias]

Good job!

And Centennial, the home ground of the mighty Lynx, is near # 6 (the Airport) just off the 427, south of the 401.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

How many fans would go straight from the airport to the stadium? Does a soccer fan really want to stay in a hotel at the airport?

You probably don't want to stay at a downtown hotel unless you enjoy paying $200-300 per night (for a basic room).

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Elias

From downtown Toronto (CN Tower/SkyDome/Union Station, etc.), you take the TTC Vaughan Express #B-312. It stops at the Toronto/Vaughan city limits. Then you hop on the Vaughan bus (I think #47 - but double check cause I'm not sure), which takes you directly to the proposed site.

To arrive for a 6 I'm assuming p.m. kick-off on a Friday, you should be good if you catch the 5:15 p.m. bus from downtown.

No. Unless an accident happens.

Depends if the driver can speak English. Plus, they don't look to friendly upon non-Italians in Wood-a-brigde.

Bus = about $7.50 Taxi = about $40, plus tip of course

The last survey I saw said they have 14,157 rooms.

As others have pointed out, most new stadiums are in the suburbs so they shouldn't have any problems.

I hope that helps!

Thanks Elias, if this information is correct then great, let's shut up and do it. If leaving downtown 45 minutes before a kick-off is enough time, that's hard to beat. A $40 cabride in rush hour ain't too bad either. The only other detail I'm curious about is the $45 million coming from the private sector. Who are these people?

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

You probably don't want to stay at a downtown hotel unless you enjoy paying $200-300 per night (for a basic room).

Okay, so I'll listen to a local and stay at a Vaughan Motor Inn for $125 a night. What does Vaughan have to offer if I stayed their for a week.

Don't you think this is all a little rushed and off the top of somebodies head. Like whatever happened to the process of cities submitting proposal based on research when venues were originally selected by the CSA? It just appears like a desparate scrabble for government funding. Where is the proposal of funding? Is the CSA practising due diligence?

[Massive Attack]

There is a Courtyard Marriot and a Super 8 in Vaughan (both are fairly new, but enough of this hotel talk).

I agree with you Robert on your last paragraph. I think this is why Kevan Pipe finally will not say anything until it is finalized, instead of giving us pretty press confrences signifying nothing.

Also, I think there is a error in the above article. I previously remember the mayor stating that the whole project would cost $45 mil and that about $10 mil would have to come from the private sector, which sounds more reasonable.

[DoyleG]

Certainly Downsview would be a pretty penny to buy.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Certainly Downsview would be a pretty penny to buy.

I doubt the CSA would 'buy' the entire base, but since it is federal lands, they could probably get a sweetheart deal.

The feds have been trying for years to develop the lucrative Downsview Park into an entertainment destination, and a decent sized stadium would fit in well with those plans, IMO.

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by Elias

But you agree with the rest of my post? []

Good post, but I'll have to disagree with the 45-minute estimate. That sounds very ambitious to me, but then I've never taken the "Vaughan Express" and don't know what route it takes. I would have guessed that it would be closer to 1.5 hours than 0.75 hours.

And I think LMS got the reaction right about Toronto's rush hour. Sweet Jesus!!

[Elias]

I said to make a 6 p.m. Friday match you leave at 5:15....on Thursday. []

SARCASM PEOPLE SARCASM!

I wasn't sure if Robert was seriously asking those questions. I thought it was an other anti-CSA/anti-Toronto rant. Schedule a 6 p.m. match on a Friday in suburbia in the summer? Not even the CSA would be that stupid.

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Here's some questions I have:

1) Could someone please tell me if I was staying at a downtown Toronto hotel during the WYC, what public transit busses I would have to take the the proposed Vaughan facility, and what time I would have to leave to arrive in time for a Friday 6:00 kick-off?

2) Does Toronto have much of a rush hour?

3) Would I be better off taking a taxi?

4) How much would that cost from Toronto to Vaughan roundtrip.

5) Does Vaughan have 10,000 hotel rooms?

6) Would the MLS still be interested with a team in Vaughan?

Serious answers:

1) Union (downtown) to Finch by subway would probably take about 30 min. And then I don't know, maybe an other 30-60 min. by bus to the stadium so you would have to plan probably almost 2 hours to make sure you made it. There's also the GO Train/Bus service. But it would be silly to stay downtown in this case.

2. What major city in the world doesn't have rush hour? Toronto's is brutal. And if an accident does happen, have fun.

3. Taking a taxi/driving from downtown to make a 6 p.m. match on a Friday, in the summer, you would honestly have to leave before 4 p.m.

4. Toronto to Vaughan is probably about $30-35 each way with a taxi.

5. Vaughan doesn't need that many hotel rooms. There's many near the aiport and other parts of the city.

6. Like I said, other MLS teams are in the suburbs, so why not? The main problem with a stadium in Vaughan would be that you limit your potential fan base. Nobody is going to take a 4 hour (both ways) subway/bus ride every week to watch them play. They would have to market the team to suburbanites who are used to driving for hours just to purchase milk. Even though ironically enough they live beside farms.