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Vaughan or Downsview Stadiums Still Possible?


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Who owns the Ontario Soccer Centre, is it the Ontario Soccer Association? And if a stadium does get built on this property, who would manage it? The CSA? The OSA? MLSE? The City of Vaughan?

Also, as details pertaining to total costs are unclear and the identity of who will be paying these costs aren't forthcoming at this stage, all we can do is speculate. Apparently, gun shy Kevan wants to play his last gasp hand down and dirty. Fair enough. Meanwhile, the clock keeps ticking. Holland 2005 starts this week. We have stadiums that are supposed to be built in Montreal, maybe Vancouver, and maybe Vaughan. Two years, three stadiums and not a shovel of dirt has been lifted. Just think how vulnerable the CSA is leaving themselves to potential construction strikes. Hey we want more or we're not going to build your stadium. We don't have the money in place today to get started. Kerfoot and Saputo are not under any obligation to complete their projects in time for the WYC. This soap opera is going to get more and more interesting with each passing day, and there are only some 730 days to go. If something goes wrong, you have to figure FIFA is will pull the plug on us if stadiums aren't completed with 200 days to go, so that leaves about 500 days to come up with how many stadiums? Tick, tick, tick, ..... Somebody mentioned it takes at least nine months to build a stadium, that's 270 days. That still leaves gun shy Kevan 230 days to find $45 or $10 million dollars and the land to put it on. That puts us around Xmas of this year. Is FIFA revoking the WYC going to be Kevan's Christmas present to Canada? Come on Kevan, if I were you, I'd roll up my sleeves and start digging a hole. Either for youself, or for the stadium.

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quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

All right, for all you non-Torontonians, a small guide to locations being discussed and having been dropped like Michael Jackson's pyjama bottoms at a slumber party...

You didn't have to go to all that trouble, I already posted such a map in another thread. Nice job, but it's so big and that makes this thread difficult to read (have to scroll right and left).
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"I wasn't sure if Robert was seriously asking those questions. I thought it was an other anti-CSA/anti-Toronto rant. Schedule a 6 p.m. match on a Friday in suburbia in the summer? Not even the CSA would be that stupid."

Well, according to you, the KNVB must be that stupid as on Friday, June 17th, they have scheduled two matches for 5:30. I know Elias, 5:30 isn't 6:00, but it's pretty damn close wouldn't you say. This coming Friday there's a doubleheader with the first game at 4:00 followed by host Holland playing at 8:00. Good thing those smart Dutchmen waited till after dinner time for their own match, eh Elias? I am not anti CSA, I am anti stupidity.

25 17 Jun 05 17:30 DOETINCHEM ESP - HON

26 17 Jun 05 17:30 UTRECHT MAR - CHI

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quote:Originally posted by Robert

"I wasn't sure if Robert was seriously asking those questions. I thought it was an other anti-CSA/anti-Toronto rant. Schedule a 6 p.m. match on a Friday in suburbia in the summer? Not even the CSA would be that stupid."

Well, according to you, the KNVB must be that stupid as on Friday, June 17th, they have scheduled two matches for 5:30. I know Elias, 5:30 isn't 6:00, but it's pretty damn close wouldn't you say. This coming Friday there's a doubleheader with the first game at 4:00 followed by host Holland playing at 8:00. Good thing those smart Dutchmen waited till after dinner time for their own match, eh Elias? I am not anti CSA, I am anti stupidity.

25 17 Jun 05 17:30 DOETINCHEM ESP - HON

26 17 Jun 05 17:30 UTRECHT MAR - CHI

Maybe those stadiums are downtown or something. One thing has nothing to do with the other. I don't know what they do over there nor do I really care. It's not about the specific time.

My point is that because of the traffic in Toronto, it would be impossible for anybody to get to a stadium in Vaughan for a 6 o'clock start on a Friday in the summer. People would need to start leaving before 4, if not earlier.

Unless FIFA wants the games on when more Europeans would watch.

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Wow Vaughn's a pretty good hike . . . I mean Pearson is a pretty good hike to downtown and it's a direct route. I guess it depends where you stay, but when I'm in Toronto the U of T is near the northern-most point I visit.

For the WYC people will go wherever the games are, but I have to think for the longterm, the Downsview location is better than Vaughn, but they could stick this thing anywhere and it would be better than nothing.

cheers,

matthew

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quote:Originally posted by matthew

when I'm in Toronto the U of T is near the northern-most point I visit.

Would it be wrong to make fun of you? :D Although, there really is not much to see north of there anyways.

If you took a taxi, then the driver took you for a ride cause Pearson-downtown is less than 30 minutes, unless you're stuck in a traffic jam.

Yeah, Downsview would be a much better location, but money is going to build this thing, not location.

It's funny all the non-Torontonians are complaining about the distances. It's really not that far. If people want to get to the games, they will.

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quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Besides, DJT-people were asking about locations, I complied, and wasn't aware of any other map.

Sorry, but I'm not about to search threads "just in case".

No problem. I was just saying, you didn't have to do the work. Doesn't make a difference to me.

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Not in my display...
This does make a difference to me, both as a poster and an admin. I suspect that your resolution is set to 1280x1024 or higher? Because the map is too big for 1024x768, and most people use that or 800x600.
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quote:Originally posted by Elias

Would it be wrong to make fun of you? :D Although, there really is not much to see north of there anyways.

No go ahead. I was being a little fascescious, but there's plenty to do between Bloor and Front and Yonge and I don't know . .. the Portuguese area. I did go to North York to a soccer store.

I hadn't noticed the old map, so I like having the new one, though I understand bandwith considerations.

I've always taken the bus or a shuttle to and from Pearson and while it's not unreasonable, it's not convenient either. I was just thinking if I had to take the subway to the end of the line and then hop a bus to get to the stadium, it's a good hike compared to a lot of the other locations. But I'm not a Torontonian, so if it's a reasonable trip for locals then build it in Vaughan because it seems to be the most advanced on any other front.

cheers,

matthew

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I'm a Torontonian, and I'll say it's damn far. Lots of things are damn far to get to in this city. I have to drive about 30 minutes just to get to an arena to play ball hockey. Worse in rush hour.

And lots of things are damn close too. You take the good with the bad!

But as someone who lives in Toronto, it is far less enticing to go to a stadium where you can't take the subway or walk to get there. But I'd still do it for the big matches.

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quote:Originally posted by sstackho

I'm a Torontonian, and I'll say it's damn far. Lots of things are damn far to get to in this city. I have to drive about 30 minutes just to get to an arena to play ball hockey. Worse in rush hour.

And lots of things are damn close too. You take the good with the bad!

But as someone who lives in Toronto, it is far less enticing to go to a stadium where you can't take the subway or walk to get there. But I'd still do it for the big matches.

I agree completely. Location and accessibility are very important factors in determining how many people show up for events. Sure, if there's a hugely popular game people will get there. But with the rather limp public support for soccer in Canada, I don't think you can afford to be careless about location.

As a personal example, I'd probably take in a few Lynx games if the mood struck me some free weekend. But the fact that the trip there involves a 20-minute ride on a bus that only comes once every 30 minutes, on top of a subway ride, makes it far less appealing. Here's one soccer fan who'd be willing to hoof it to Downsview, which is much more convenient, if not actually much closer. But that's just my situation.

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Hey, I take a 5 minute walk to a 25 minute busride on a bus that only comes every 30 minutes, followed by a 40 minute Skytrain ride then a 10 minute walk to attend Whitecaps games and this is Vancouver with less than half the population of the GTA. You think you've got it bad!

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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I doubt the CSA would 'buy' the entire base, but since it is federal lands, they could probably get a sweetheart deal.

The feds have been trying for years to develop the lucrative Downsview Park into an entertainment destination, and a decent sized stadium would fit in well with those plans, IMO.

Putting the words "feds" and "sweetheart deal" in the same post are considered a bad omen.

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We're hosting the WYC in two year's time. The games are to be played in six cities. Can anyone name at least three of the stadiums that are going to be used? Only in Kevan Pipe's Canada, eh? This has to be the most unorganized championship ever.

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quote:Originally posted by Richard

Hey, I take a 5 minute walk to a 25 minute busride on a bus that only comes every 30 minutes, followed by a 40 minute Skytrain ride then a 10 minute walk to attend Whitecaps games and this is Vancouver with less than half the population of the GTA. You think you've got it bad!

That doesn't look bad at all. Unless I am mistaken, the trek to Centenial would involve taking TWO buses. Plus, as rdroze said its a "trip that involves a 20-minute ride on a bus that only comes once every 30 minutes".

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Well, as you can see from the map, Downsview is central to all parts of town. Accessible from East and West by highway 401. Northern suburbanites can come down the 400 or the 404 and then across the 401 to Allen Expressway, the downsview exit. People without cars can take the subway to Downsview station, just across the street from Downsview Park. Its an even better location IMO than Varsity or York, as Uof T varsity has subway access but zero access by car, and York has access by car but not by subway. Vaughan has car access, but will be hell to get to for midweek evening games. Toronto rush hour is from 2pm to about 7:30 pm at this point. Downsview has it all folks.

Bonus: Without the universities involved, there is no need for football endzones and benches! We can have an intimate, soccer exclusive stadium with seats right up to the nets and touchlines! This could turn out better than we hoped for!

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You know, the man's got a point. I've never been to Downsview Park, so I don't really have a feel for how big it is and how far the stadium could potentially be from the subway.

Also wondering, is there a good commercial area near the Downsview stop with pubs and food?

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quote:Originally posted by Robert

Who owns the Ontario Soccer Centre, is it the Ontario Soccer Association? And if a stadium does get built on this property, who would manage it? The CSA? The OSA? MLSE? The City of Vaughan?

Also, as details pertaining to total costs are unclear and the identity of who will be paying these costs aren't forthcoming at this stage, all we can do is speculate. Apparently, gun shy Kevan wants to play his last gasp hand down and dirty. Fair enough. Meanwhile, the clock keeps ticking. Holland 2005 starts this week. We have stadiums that are supposed to be built in Montreal, maybe Vancouver, and maybe Vaughan. Two years, three stadiums and not a shovel of dirt has been lifted. Just think how vulnerable the CSA is leaving themselves to potential construction strikes. Hey we want more or we're not going to build your stadium. We don't have the money in place today to get started. Kerfoot and Saputo are not under any obligation to complete their projects in time for the WYC. This soap opera is going to get more and more interesting with each passing day, and there are only some 730 days to go. If something goes wrong, you have to figure FIFA is will pull the plug on us if stadiums aren't completed with 200 days to go, so that leaves about 500 days to come up with how many stadiums? Tick, tick, tick, ..... Somebody mentioned it takes at least nine months to build a stadium, that's 270 days. That still leaves gun shy Kevan 230 days to find $45 or $10 million dollars and the land to put it on. That puts us around Xmas of this year. Is FIFA revoking the WYC going to be Kevan's Christmas present to Canada? Come on Kevan, if I were you, I'd roll up my sleeves and start digging a hole. Either for youself, or for the stadium.

I guess we will have to wait for detailed plans including sponsors etc.I am in favour of the location. In my travells abroad most stadia are far removed from the down town area and as such Vaughan is a city and is a wonderfull soccer one tabout with a potentially great support.To reach Vaughan I admitt the public transportation is a problem and has to be addressed as soon as possible.

Money wise there is a bunch of it floating around and I am sure that that stadium can be build.

Surprisingly Vaughan is the closest major city to the airport and viewing the map, there are a bunch of major hwys around including the 403 the fastest one of them all.

Downsview would also be very good, but the majority of solid soccer supporters live in Vaughan and this is very important.For guys like myself living in Pickering when games are played during the non traffic jam times it would not matter.

Now there is this vacant land north of Pickering.....

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<<the majority of solid soccer supporters live in Vaughan>>

LOL

Evidence?

So only Vaughan's (presumably Italian-Canadians) are solid soccer supporters?

Lots of Latin Americans and East Europeans living closer to downtown my friend, go to any downtown park and see all the pickup soccer games going on. Are these people not worthy of consideration?

Many are newer immigrants without cars, so by moving to Vaughan you are largely shutting them out. Everyone has reasonably cheap and easy access to Downsview, without discrimination.

Lets not make over-the top generalizations, and lets try and encourage as many potential fans as possible rather than selectively targetting suburbanites, ethnic communities etc.

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quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

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Lots of Latin Americans and East Europeans living closer to downtown my friend, go to any downtown park and see all the pickup soccer games going on.

There is very large community of these groups in vaughan as well. especially Eastern eurpeans.

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<<There is very large community of these groups in vaughan as well. especially Eastern eurpeans.>>

You have missed the whole point, which is that the claim that the 'majority' of solid soccer supporters live in Vaughan is not based on any empirical evidence. I'm willing to bet that the number of solid soccer supporters among the City of Toronto's 2.6 million people dwarfs the equivalent number among Vaughan's 200,000 residents.

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