Goalkeeper Depth

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Andrew W

I don't see that as a wise way to tier or select goalkeepers (or any player for that matter). The last 12 months have to have some impact on how players are selected, particularly for camps where prospects are identified and ranked in terms of their future and current worth to the program.

That said, I don't think you discount past performances anymore than you discount current form and situation. Obviously past performance does mean something thus Hirschfeld's continued involvement, but current or recent form means something too, thus Sutton's involvement.

I believe a meshing of all those factors should put players on equal footing in terms of their worth for a call-up to a camp, friendly or otherwise. It will then be up to Fernandes or any other player to play their way into consideration for final team selection.

You really have two tiers of keepers right now and I think you have to recognize that in your selection. I see potentially three in the top tier: Hirschfeld, Sutton and Stamatopolous. These guys may not be the top three in four years, but for now they are. The next tier includes all the rest. While I think they should be getting calls to camps held in their neck of the woods they really should be tested in U-20, U-23 and B team games until such time as they demonstrate they can move up. It may be taking over the number 1 at a pro club, or excelling in the camps, lower level national team games.

As for why I think Lars is the Number 1 loyala, is that he was #1 during Holger's last year and he was #2 last year, even if this did not result in playing in anything meaningful. Hirschfeld started against Guatemala in WCQ. I'd say he is ahead of Sutton on Frank's depth chart, although clearly Frank is - rightfully - giving Sutton a chance to compete. I don't know that Lars will be able to hold off the challenge or whether Sutton has what it takes to grab the number 1. That remains to be seen.

If we were, in fact to be plaing a reasonable number of games this year, split reasonably evenly between Europe and Canada/North America, I'd like to see Lars and Kenny at the European games and Sutton and any of the A-League level guys at the North American games, although the Gold Cup sould be the current top two.

[Andrew W]

Let it be clear that I do not believe Fernandes to be in that top tier yet. But I do believe he soon deserves a shot at a camp where he can get his chance. Like I said, if he flames, so be it and we can all rest easy.

BTW, the thread is about future goaltending depth and that's where I see his value.

Of the currents, I'd like to see Stamatopolous get a good shot and long looksee.

[loyola]

Gordon, when Holger left after the 2003 GC, Onstad was our #1, only an injury to Onstad gave a chance to Hirshfeld. But I agree that Hirsh should be "consider" as our #1 for being in the program for a longer time than Sutton.

I also would like to see Kenny, but it seems that FY had a good look at him in Florida so it his call from now and Kenny is playing in Sweeden second division I think.

[loyola]

Gordon, when Holger left after the 2003 GC, Onstad was our #1, only an injury to Onstad gave a chance to Hirshfeld. But I agree that Hirsh should be "consider" as our #1 for being in the program for a longer time than Sutton.

I also would like to see Kenny, but it seems that FY had a good look at him in Florida so it his call from now and Kenny is playing in Sweeden second division I think.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Yes, Kenny is 'playing in the Swedish second tier, but the key word is that he 'is playing,' as opposed to Lars who hasn't played regularly for years, and never at a very high level.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Yes, Kenny is 'playing in the Swedish second tier, but the key word is that he 'is playing,' as opposed to Lars who hasn't played regularly for years, and never at a very high level.

[loyola]

I want a add that if I remember correctly, after the Florida camp FY said in an interview that the battle for the #1 spot was between Sutton and Hirsh and that the future was Wagenaar and Bergovic.

[loyola]

I want a add that if I remember correctly, after the Florida camp FY said in an interview that the battle for the #1 spot was between Sutton and Hirsh and that the future was Wagenaar and Bergovic.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Gordon, when Holger left after the 2003 GC, Onstad was our #1, only an injury to Onstad gave a chance to Hirshfeld. But I agree that Hirsh should be "consider" as our #1 for being in the program for a longer time than Sutton.

I also would like to see Kenny, but it seems that FY had a good look at him in Florida so it his call from now and Kenny is playing in Sweeden second division I think.

I think that is was an injury at GC 2002 that gave Hirschfeld his chance. I think that Lars started the majority of games from that point on, even when Pat was not injured, although my recollection may be inaccurate.

Stamatopolous has been to a few camps and friendlies over the past 24 months...he has not yet stepped up. I'd like to see him get a couple of games to show what he can do. I can't recall if he has seen any minutes with the senior team, although I know he backed up Onstad a few times.

I think who a keeper is playing for and whether he is starting or not is largely irrelevant to selection. Both obviously are not unimportant, but form at the national team camp clearly is the basis on which the keeper should be selected. Kenny has been there a few times and has yet to make the kind of impression he has too. While I think he should be given a chance to show what he can do under game conditions, the fact is that, head to head, he has yet to beat out Hirschfeld or Onstad. I am not sure if he has competed head to head with Sutton, but I don't think that he should be number one simply because he is playing 1st team more regularly than Hirschfeld.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Slightly OT, but what's with all this Kenny, Kenny, Kenny. I realize he has been in Yallop's view, but we are really demeaning ourselves if WE rate Kenny ahead of Franks. Boden? Give me a break, Franks faces much together opposition.

[loyola]

Yallop has called Olivieri before calling Mike Franks, I don't know if we can conclude something from that?

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I want a add that if I remember correctly, after the Florida camp FY said in an interview that the battle for the #1 spot was between Sutton and Hirsh and that the future was Wagenaar and Bergovic.

It was during the early part of the Florida camp (where Kenny and Olivieri were training, and before the friendly with the honduran club had even been arranged at the last minute) when he was interviewed.

Frank was really talking about the present situation concerning the

upcoming friendlies (Lars and Sutton) and in response to a Halliday question about long-term prospects (Waagenar and Begovic). The issue of a number three for this year's national team was not really addressed.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Update on Daniel Fernandes: The Greek head researcher for FM told me that Daniel considers Portugal his first nation. The folks at FM also claim Fernandes has 2 U21 caps for Portugal? I find this hard to believe, still it would be a great loss, IMHO.

Here's what I was told:

"I had him as an Canadian when I first got him in my jurisdiction, but after our small conversation after a friendly match of PAOK I had changed his primary nationality.

He will be asked in the next few days about it.

PS: He has already played a few matches for PAOK, nice keeper, very good physicals, but he lacks in experience and agility..."

[Ivan]

Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Update on Daniel Fernandes: The Greek head researcher for FM told me that Daniel considers Portugal his first nation. The folks at FM also claim Fernandes has 2 U21 caps for Portugal? I find this hard to believe, still it would be a great loss, IMHO.

Well IMHO it would be a loss of potential, but not a big loss (yet, I am not able to predict the future). He was after all, beat out for our U20 keeper position by Karim, then Dale elected to carry Wagenaar & Lindley ahead of him.

Only time will tell I guess. But if Daniel decides Portugal is for him, so be it.

[Daniel]

Did he participate in our Q's for 2003?

[Ivan]

He was at the qualifiers in the US, but Karim got all the minutes. In a WC warm-up against Panama (IIRC) he let in a couple of softies, was pulled, and Dale never called him back.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

He was at the qualifiers in the US, but Karim got all the minutes. In a WC warm-up against Panama (IIRC) he let in a couple of softies, was pulled, and Dale never called him back.

If he was capped for Portugal's U-21's, then it is a good thing that he was not on the pitch for the 2003 qualifiers (in November, 2002), as he would have been an ineligible player and might have caused Canada to be disqualified from the WYC in the UAE. Appealing after qualifiers due to ineligible players is a Latin-American art-form, as evidenced by it's successful use over the past few decades, and you can rest assured our opponents would have full dossiers on the Canadian players even if the CSA does not have full or accurate dossiers on their own players.

This is something we have to careful of in Canada. A week before the Honduras U-20 qualifying in late January, I wrote the CSA asking them about Dylan Hughes' status in the light of his having played for Wales U-21 in an officially sanctioned match against Latvia on August 18, 2004, and his need to make an official application for a switch at FIFA. I received a polite response back shortly after thanking me for my concern, but assuring me: 1. that Dylan's status was not clouded as he was only on the bench for that match (which was incorrect, but was the belief the CSA had) but agreeing with me that there would be concern had he played, 2. that Dylan was committed to play for Canada, and 3. that Dylan would certainly be on the roster for Canada in the tournament . Although the Wales Association site was silent as to who from the roster played in that match, I found British press three match reports on the net listing him as having played, including one that was accompanied by an article in which the coach praised Dylan for his play. I also wrote the Latvian Football Association and received confirmation from the reports that had to be filed with UEFA and FIFA by the host association (and to which other national Associations have access). I forwarded these four sources to the CSA. I never received another response back, but Dylan was left off the roster the following week. I'm not saying it was because of my information and I'm not saying what the reason was, but it is clear that we have to be vigilant.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I don't doubt the possibility that the CSA wouldn't know about a player's eligibility, however I don't think Fernandes has been capped at any level by Portugal. I spent some time looking through the FA's web site and couldn't find any sign of him.

http://www.fpf.pt/news/procura.php?dosearch=yes&story=Daniel+Fernandes

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Daniel is not capped, not for Canada, nor for Portugal. I know from him personally that he would prefer to play for Canada, as he feels Canadian. The other thing is if, playing in a EU nation, he has to identify himself as Portuguese, since it is this status that allows him to play at all in Europe without counting as a foreigner. So technically, legally, Daniel is Portuguese at Paok.

The other question is whether he sees and possibilities in Canada for him. While he is being ignored by Canada coaches (I personally think that for Yallop not to even mention him as a potential keeper in the future is rather disgraceful), since he has been at Paok some folks in Portugal have been in touch with him, he has not cut his ties. But I know little more than this.

Just so everyone knows, Daniel was on the first list for the U-21 World Cup in UAE, including the previous planned camp in Turkey, before it got postponed. After that, when Dale decided to go for Karim, which worked out well, he opted to include as subs two keepers with no experience with our u-21s over Fernandes and Rayner, who until then, along with Djekanovic, were the keepers most used in the lead-up.

I don't think he is at all ready to play for the Portugal national team, I wonder if he could have heard from Portugal clubs interested (reading between the few lines I have be sent, and nothing at all recently). But given his status at Paok, I doubt he'd make the leap quite yet, as his chances of becoming a starter by next season are pretty decent. After all, when he signed last season he was one of three youth keepers, with three seniors ahead of them. Now he is no. 2.

[wildboy26]

It is interesting to see this discussion from so long ago. As it turns out a year later, Kenny is taking the #1 job, Sutton is a close #2, Hirschfeld is a distant #3 who never had a chance to keep from dropping there who is soon to drop off the radar altogether and certain to never play for Canada again, and Fernandes is up and coming still.

[NPE]

How come you know so much!

[Joe Keeper]

I forgot about this thread. Just perusing it has been interesting after a year. To be honest, not much has changed as it would appear. We are still debating Fernandez, Lars remains elusive, and Greg and Kenny are still getting the majority of call ups, even though Kenny was still on the bubble when I posted this I think.

It will be fun to see where we are in another years time. Even if this thread comes back to life again or not...

[Winnipeg Fury]

This one is for wildboy:

Har ingen førstekeeper

TRONDHEIM: Rosenborg - Brann 1-0. Rosenborg har ennå ikke funnet sin førstekeeper. Om 36 dager er det seriestart.

* VIDEO: Kones mål mot Brann

Av Roy Tommy Bråten, 04.03.2006 kl. 10:07

Lars Hirschfeld og Espen Johnsen kjemper fortsatt om å bli RBKs førstekeeper. (Foto: Digitalsport)

 Les også:

 Sigurdsson fortsetter å imponere

 Riseth måtte sy

 Kone sørget for nytt Brann-tap

 Tørum: - Vi mangler mye

I går holdt Lars Hirschfeld nullen mot Brann, og var Rosenborgs beste.

Men om det holder mot Espen Johnsen i kampen om keeperplassen, er ikke sikkert.

- Inntil videre har vi ikke noe klart førstevalg. Guttene får vise hvordan de takler konkurransen fremover, prestere så godt som mulig, og så blir det en prosess som får gå sin gang. Kanskje kommer vi til en felles forståelse at vi velger en førstekeeper som vi gir masse tillit eller så vil det være en konkurranse til et tidspunkt jeg ikke vet nå, sier assistent-trener Knut Tørum.

I Per-Mathias Høgmos feriefravær ledet han Rosenborg til en knapp 1-0 seier.

- Har dere en førstekeeper klar til seriestart?

- Han som står i mål første serierunde, vet hvilken tillit han har, svarer Tørum.

Keepertrener Jørn Jamtfall er soleklar.

- Klart vi må ha en førstekeeper, sier han.

Høylytt og bestemt

Espen Johnsen fikk fri grunnet den lange turen til Senegal i midtuken, og allerede etter fem minutter viste Hirschfeld at han har kvaliteter. I full strekk slo han Migen Memellis harde, lave skudd fra 20 meter til corner. Noen nervøse utspark senere var han igjen i fokus.

Samme Memelli kom alene gjennom, og fikk skutt. Ballen stoppet mellom beina til Hirschfeld som var både god og heldig i den situasjonen. Utover i kampen hadde han full kontroll på alt som kom hans vei.

Men han nekter å svare på om han skal være førstekeeper.

- Du spør feil mann. Jeg gjør bare jobben min, så er det opp til trenerne hvem som skal stå i mål, sier han mellom all autografskrivingen etter kampen.

Brukte kjeften

Han dirigerte sitt forsvar høylytt og bestemt. Ikke siden Bodø/Glimt-kampen i slutten av januar hadde han stått en obligatorisk kamp, og innrømmer at han var litt nervøs.

- Men jeg bestemte for å holde kjeften i gang hele tiden. Det ble kanskje litt mye, men det var bevisst. Jeg får bare håpe at forsvarerne ikke ble lei all masingen min, humrer han.

Kone-show

Kampen så lenge ut til å bli en i rekken av småkjedelige 0-0 kamper.

Men to minutter før slutt dukket Yssouf Kone opp, og viste trønderne en liten bit av sin eminente teknikk. Med tre motstandere rundt seg på midtbanen snurret han på femøringen med ballen under knottene, og sendte den til Jan Gunnar Solli. Mens Solli, med en langpasning fant Alexander Tettey på venstre side av 16-meteren, hadde Kone funnet plass foran mål.

Og Tetteys innlegg satte han i mål via Brann-keeper Håkon Opdal.

Spissen fra Burkina Faso scoret sitt andre mål for Rosenborg, og sørget for at trønderne ikke har tapt en treningskamp i år. Det, sammen med Hirschfelds keeperspill, varmet Tørum. Ellers var det få svar å få.

- Vi mangler mye, spesielt fremover, i både trykk og offensivitet. Det er for lite besluttsomhet. Vi trenger ikke alltid få ball på fot, og det blir mye stillestående. Men får vi orden på det, ser det bra ut, mener Tørum.

[wildboy26]

quote:Originally posted by Joe Keeper

I forgot about this thread. Just perusing it has been interesting after a year. To be honest, not much has changed as it would appear. We are still debating Fernandez, Lars remains elusive, and Greg and Kenny are still getting the majority of call ups, even though Kenny was still on the bubble when I posted this I think.

It will be fun to see where we are in another years time. Even if this thread comes back to life again or not...

What do you mean by Lars remains "elusive". If you mean he is elusive in that there is no interest in him at all from Soccer Canada I agree.

[wildboy26]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

This one is for wildboy:

Har ingen førstekeeper

TRONDHEIM: Rosenborg - Brann 1-0. Rosenborg har ennå ikke funnet sin førstekeeper. Om 36 dager er det seriestart.

* VIDEO: Kones mål mot Brann

Av Roy Tommy Bråten, 04.03.2006 kl. 10:07

Lars Hirschfeld og Espen Johnsen kjemper fortsatt om å bli RBKs førstekeeper. (Foto: Digitalsport)

 Les også:

 Sigurdsson fortsetter å imponere

 Riseth måtte sy

 Kone sørget for nytt Brann-tap

 Tørum: - Vi mangler mye

I går holdt Lars Hirschfeld nullen mot Brann, og var Rosenborgs beste.

Men om det holder mot Espen Johnsen i kampen om keeperplassen, er ikke sikkert.

- Inntil videre har vi ikke noe klart førstevalg. Guttene får vise hvordan de takler konkurransen fremover, prestere så godt som mulig, og så blir det en prosess som får gå sin gang. Kanskje kommer vi til en felles forståelse at vi velger en førstekeeper som vi gir masse tillit eller så vil det være en konkurranse til et tidspunkt jeg ikke vet nå, sier assistent-trener Knut Tørum.

I Per-Mathias Høgmos feriefravær ledet han Rosenborg til en knapp 1-0 seier.

- Har dere en førstekeeper klar til seriestart?

- Han som står i mål første serierunde, vet hvilken tillit han har, svarer Tørum.

Keepertrener Jørn Jamtfall er soleklar.

- Klart vi må ha en førstekeeper, sier han.

Høylytt og bestemt

Espen Johnsen fikk fri grunnet den lange turen til Senegal i midtuken, og allerede etter fem minutter viste Hirschfeld at han har kvaliteter. I full strekk slo han Migen Memellis harde, lave skudd fra 20 meter til corner. Noen nervøse utspark senere var han igjen i fokus.

Samme Memelli kom alene gjennom, og fikk skutt. Ballen stoppet mellom beina til Hirschfeld som var både god og heldig i den situasjonen. Utover i kampen hadde han full kontroll på alt som kom hans vei.

Men han nekter å svare på om han skal være førstekeeper.

- Du spør feil mann. Jeg gjør bare jobben min, så er det opp til trenerne hvem som skal stå i mål, sier han mellom all autografskrivingen etter kampen.

Brukte kjeften

Han dirigerte sitt forsvar høylytt og bestemt. Ikke siden Bodø/Glimt-kampen i slutten av januar hadde han stått en obligatorisk kamp, og innrømmer at han var litt nervøs.

- Men jeg bestemte for å holde kjeften i gang hele tiden. Det ble kanskje litt mye, men det var bevisst. Jeg får bare håpe at forsvarerne ikke ble lei all masingen min, humrer han.

Kone-show

Kampen så lenge ut til å bli en i rekken av småkjedelige 0-0 kamper.

Men to minutter før slutt dukket Yssouf Kone opp, og viste trønderne en liten bit av sin eminente teknikk. Med tre motstandere rundt seg på midtbanen snurret han på femøringen med ballen under knottene, og sendte den til Jan Gunnar Solli. Mens Solli, med en langpasning fant Alexander Tettey på venstre side av 16-meteren, hadde Kone funnet plass foran mål.

Og Tetteys innlegg satte han i mål via Brann-keeper Håkon Opdal.

Spissen fra Burkina Faso scoret sitt andre mål for Rosenborg, og sørget for at trønderne ikke har tapt en treningskamp i år. Det, sammen med Hirschfelds keeperspill, varmet Tørum. Ellers var det få svar å få.

- Vi mangler mye, spesielt fremover, i både trykk og offensivitet. Det er for lite besluttsomhet. Vi trenger ikke alltid få ball på fot, og det blir mye stillestående. Men får vi orden på det, ser det bra ut, mener Tørum.

Sorry I dont understand Norwegian.