DJT Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by matthew We've barely used McKenna in the back and we haven't used Watson in over a year. I definitely would have chosen Reda over Fenwick and if DeVos was healthy I wouldn't recall Watson, but I think McKenna and Watson won't hurt us, whereas a lot of the younger guys people are pining for are unproven and I don't know if they will or won't hurt us. But who cares if they might hurt us, it's a meaningless (result-wise) friendly! Which means it's precisely the time to include the young guys. If they don't play in friendlies because they are unproven then they will still be unproven when the real matches arrive three months from now. I'm not saying we should use all our young guys. Rather, these comments are directed at choosing Watson over them. Is he playing anywhere in the A-League offseason? As far as I know he is not. So he is not available for the first four dates of the first round of WCQ. By the time he is available (June at the earliest), so much time will have passed that his performance in this one (perhaps less than one) match eight months earlier won't mean much. Therefore I don't see the point of calling him for this match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Good point about the A-League off-season. The scary thing is that I think should Miller get the job we'll see Watson at the start of WCQ even if it is the off-season. I can't see Miller thinking 'well he won't be any use to us in the middle of winter, but I'm going to call him in what could be our last friendly before the WCQ just because he was a former teammate of mine". I hope not anyway. The friendly is meaningless, but we need to try to figure who our best team is right now. Because we don't have a lot of time in the next five months to figure it out. No one's complaining that Radz and DeRo are coming and they should be shelved so we can see some youth like Godfrey or Belotte. I assume people are calling for Reda because they think he is young, AND better than Fenwick, Watson and perhaps Mckenna. I'm a Reda fan. I think we need to see he and DeVos together because it might be our No. 1 pairing. But I don't know. I still say there's a chance Watson is better right now than Reda, I don't know. I wish Reda had been called to get the chance to compare, but I don't think it's a really bad thing that Watson is there - he's a decent international, he's better than we've been using (Fenwick) and he's a good leader. I'm not trying to sell him as a starter or anything, but I don't think this callup is as mystifying and undeserved as some people seem to think it is. I guess we'll see what Watty has left Saturday. Forsell'll be a good test. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Guess I got to wade in eventualy. I think Miller's taking this match seriously. Still, it is a friendly and I'm sure if Colin wins the 1st half that'll change the way he approachs the 2nd half. There are a few new faces in the squad, and you can't mix too many fresh bodies in all at once unless you've lost all hope with you're existing line up and I don't think we've reached that point yet. I think the Finns for whatever reasons, are also taking this match seriously. Maybe just because it's a home date, who knows? But as far as I can see, I understand this side is very close to the regular 1st team. As unfamiliar as some of their players are, this is the same side which gave Wales fits and looked very fluid, organised, and dangerous doing it. If they can get up for a match against Canada is anyones guess. So this could be quite the contest and a real good test for our lads. De Guzman is a loss. Fingers and toes crossed his absence from the national team is over. He was missed at the Gold Cup and it cost Holger his job. That being said we're looking competative in the middle and Aces up front. And still room for improvement! Backline troubles me a little less than everyone else it seems. Big Kev will return to the center. He may not be playing 1st team ball right now but there is no one, JDV included who could crack Hearts backline these days. For all you Haters out there, Fenwick also plays[}]. He'll be hungry to play, and with maybe Watson pushing those two a little they'll show Colin they deserve a start. I think Hume if he sees any playing time, is going to see it up front in the 2nd half. Maybe with Radz., but likely with Pesch. DeRosario isn't going to play more than an hour. They're going to have a tough time up front though. Very solid, world class 'keepers. Very good defense. It's going to be fun. Hard work. But fun. God, I can't wait. Hirschfeld Bent Fenwick McKenna Jazic Nsaliwa Stalteri Imhof Brennan Radz. DeRosario Definately see Pesch. and Bircham at some time. Probably Hume and probably Watson and Pozniak. Still up in the air over starting 'keeper. I'd like to see Hirschfeld in, but tend to think it's going to be Pat O. Like I wrote earlier, Miller's looking to win this one, but we might see a 'keeper change at the half if we're ahead. If we end up loosing we'll still look good then. You know, 1st team won the 1st half, subs lost the match. It's just a friendly after all;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I may have missed something but I don't think McKenna or Fenwick has seen any game action in central defence this year. McKenna as come on as a late substitute at striker. The thought of starting two central defenders with no game action in defence seems to me like a recipe for disaster. Ironically, Nsaliwa has for one game anyway. He was in central defence against Unterhaching I believe. And Bundesliga-2 is probably an equal or better level of play than Scotland. That may be worth an experament. In some respects, I have kind of convinced myself that a central defence of Watson and Nsaliwa would be better. At least, they have played there recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA Miller played with Aguiar in the last days of the Lenarduzzi regime and I wonder if the two didn't hit it off then. Hope it isn't something as petty as that.[?] I wish I were wrong, but I think that you have pretty well hit the nail on the head. I am not saying that Miller had any direct probs with Aguiar, but there seemed to be some problems with Watson; and with Lenarduzzi. The fact that the first thing Miller does is bring Watson out of retirement would suggest he is playing party politics. If that is the case, he is completely discredited, as he is supposed to be looking for the best side for Canada and not for old boy loyalties. Of course what I am saying about Aguiar also goes for Radzinski. Only that Radz is so obvious as a choice that even though they treated him like crap they can't ignore him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Trying to put on a brave face. Watson hasn't played in a month so I'll take my chances with SPL bench sitters. Say what you want about Fenwick, he's still got 2 steps on Watson. Everyone on the team has at least two steps on Watson. With Forssell galloping up front and a very fluid Finnish side can you risk a slow coach on the back line? It's not as though we'll be playing a sweeper of any sort or using an off-side trap. There'll be a lot of deep dropping I think and it'll be up to the men on the flanks to move the ball up field in a controlled fashion. Can't remember the last match Hastings had that was worth a damn but who knows, maybe he's gotten back on track. I just like Nsaliwa in the middle because he'll have more opportunity at the ball and more freedom to roam. Bent was great in the Costa Rica match and hopefully Imhof can help out the rusty central defenders. I wish Mr. Miller had called some others already mentioned. Fenwick and Watson might have roles to play against some sides, especially if they're in their game form, but I can't see it against this Finnish side. But if it comes down to the available players, Paul F. has a lot of caps for all the Hate being ranted his way and at least some familiarity with the "core" out there, Onstad and Lars included. Am I whisling past the graveyard here? Re; Canuck Oranje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Don't get me wrong. Right Back is where Nsaliwa should be I think; but, central defence on this team downright scary. Maybe Fenwick is still better than Watson without game action. If that is the case, then there really needs to be some questions asked why we would call someone back who doesn't even add future potential. In a one game scenario, adjustment to pace is the hardest thing for a central defender (take it from a former central defender). Espesially when you don't have any. Re: Jeffrey's comments, I hope to God there are honest good explanations for the key exclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I don't recall Watson really playing much "central defense" in any event. The games I have seen him play (live) for Charleston he was at right back, as he always was for Canada. And Charleston play an extremely defensive style which helps to de-emphasize Watson's lack of speed. They also play a very boring long-ball style - which is also right up Watson's alley. Unfortunately, that is not right up international standards alley & that's not the avenue we can pursue if we wish to qualify. The two contenders for central defense in this match are Fenwick & McKenna, with Watson & Tam having an outside shot. Maybe even Pozniak as sweeper, where he has played for Canadian youth teams. I'm not sure how knowledgeable Gene Principe (who is calling the match on Saturday in Dobson's absence is) so I'm not sure that the absence of De Guzman, Aguiar, Klukowski & Reda (the four biggest ommissions) will be discussed during the telecast saturday. I don't know if Craig is one to "rock the boat" during a telecast (if he wasn't going to do it with Holger, I doubt he will with Miller). Short of writing to the CSA ourselves, our best hope of finding out some sort of explanation is a Neil Davidson article before the match (and time is running out) that addresses these issues - he's the only one that seems to do that in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I have to confess that the selection shoices have me somewhat puzzled as to what Miller is trying to accomplish. I thought there was a Van Morrison thing happening (Too Long in Exile) but that does not explain Aguiar's absence. I get Watson, somewhat: We have a problem at Centre Back, and that's where he is playing with Charleston (edit, have just read G-L's post indicating that Watson played Right Back with Charleston), but then, why not Reda? Only seen him (Reda) play once on Television and he didn't impress me, but since then he has gone on to do quite well in Norway. I suspect his game has improved. I cant say I would clamour for the inclusion of Pizzolitto, but why choose Fenwick? And what about Tony Menezes? He is our Best option at Centre Back in my opinion. I am not troubled at all by the inclusion of Hastings. I doubt Brennan is in any condition to go 90, and think that Hastings, as much as I viewed him as a weak link, is still in the picture on any 23 man roster. Granted this is only 18, but given the absences justifiable. I can see Klukowski's ommission, given that he is fighting to regain a 1st team spot and LL play on the 10th. He has yet to establish himself with the Canadian NT also. But, damn it, I'd like to see him play. DeGuzman is a puzzler. And worrisome. I really think it important that he hook up with Radzinski, Pesch and DD in actual game conditions to start to develop an understanding. Once again, although he is fighting for a 1st team spot, Hannover is not playing anything significant. I don't think the Red card factors, as the team likely was selected and set before the red Card occured. I woud rest easier knowing that there was some innocent reason for the absence. Given that this is an interim coach, and a friendly, I am not going to draw any loing term selection inferences. But if Miller is successful in a bid for the head Coach job, I will be worried. I would rather see some of the younger "on the bubble" players getting a run out ahead of the Fenwicks and Watsons. I don't think we play enough that we can "waste" an opportunity to test out younger players in game conditions. While it is great to see Radz, Pesch and DD on the team, it is frustrating that our best playmaking midfielder (DeGuzman) is not present to work with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Maybe we need to email the press? Prod them into asking some questions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje Maybe we need to email the press? Prod them into asking some questions.. I e-mailed Morgan Quarry last night (re: DeGuzman), got a reply, but hadn't expressly asked if it was OK to post the reply here, so I've sent him another. He did say the first training session of the day went very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Short of writing to the CSA ourselves, our best hope of finding out some sort of explanation is a Neil Davidson article before the match (and time is running out) that addresses these issues - he's the only one that seems to do that in the media. The problem is that Neil is busy with the WWC... though, on the other hand, there hasn't been anything to do there these last few days with the women not even training, and he should have personal access to Morgan and other CSA people there, so maybe we should have seen something. I think our best bet is to see if Morgan lets Gordon post that response! When we want something done, do it ourselves --- that's been our theme, hasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I wish I were wrong, but I think that you have pretty well hit the nail on the head. I am not saying that Miller had any direct probs with Aguiar, but there seemed to be some problems with Watson; and with Lenarduzzi. The fact that the first thing Miller does is bring Watson out of retirement would suggest he is playing party politics. If that is the case, he is completely discredited, as he is supposed to be looking for the best side for Canada and not for old boy loyalties. Sounds like you're assuming Aguiar's inability to get along with Miller, Watson and Lenarduzzi was entirely their fault and that Aguiar was just an innocent victim. Maybe Miller figures that if Aguiar couldn't get along with his coach and teammates then, then he might have a negative influence on the team now. I don't think it's necessarily petty to take team chemistry into account when choosing a team. You do want to have a team out there, not just a bunch of individuals, however talented they might be. I should point out, though, that this is just unfounded speculation. I know even less about Aguiar's personality than I do about his tendencies on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Chet Sounds like you're assuming Aguiar's inability to get along with Miller, Watson and Lenarduzzi was entirely their fault and that Aguiar was just an innocent victim. Maybe Miller figures that if Aguiar couldn't get along with his coach and teammates then, then he might have a negative influence on the team now. I don't think it's necessarily petty to take team chemistry into account when choosing a team. You do want to have a team out there, not just a bunch of individuals, however talented they might be. I should point out, though, that this is just unfounded speculation. I know even less about Aguiar's personality than I do about his tendencies on the field. He was young. So was Radz. They were not supposed to take the weight of qualifying for a World Cup. The veterans were, and didn't. One of the reasons Aguiar did not get along with some of the veterans was that he felt that they were unjustly baiting this Polish kid who spoke with an accent, and like Fernando, would have liked to have felt more welcome. In Canada there have been some players who have acted as if they owned the team, that they had special rights. Such attitudes are divisive, and right now we need a coach who can insist on unity and solidarity with all their teammates. In Canada this is hard as anytime you commit entirely to Canada your club takes it out on you, especially post NASL. All I can hope for is a new coach who is able to see beyond such internal rivalries and insist that he is in charge. A Canadian coach would give us someone who knows the players and the circumstances from the start, perhaps would have certain tolerance with club complications. Which is what I think we'll get. But a foreigner sometimes comes in more impartially and is able to just ignore the past, calls who he thinks is the best in each position, period. Against a foreign coach is that you come in looking for "friends", little alliances that could make you feel more welcome. And that can end up distorting things just the same. Are we sure Yallop will give it a truly fresh start, or would he come in with some baggage we really don't need? That for me is the key doubt I have about giving him the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Are we sure Yallop will give it a truly fresh start, or would he come in with some baggage we really don't need? That for me is the key doubt I have about giving him the job. Everybody has baggage of some sort. Osieck was a "fresh face" yet had his problems as well. Obviously you are more aware of the fracas - or at least one side of it - than the rest of us, but unless Yallop was one of the instigators or bullies, I'd say the fact that he played for Canada shouldn't be a factor. Radzinski has shown up for Miller. Obviously both are moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by DJT The problem is that Neil is busy with the WWC... Actually they've been using someone out of Vancouver (Morris I think) because Neil's in Australia for the Rugby World Cup right now. So I wouldn't expect much on Finland either, so there's a reason though if we win and it doesn't get much press, everyone will say it's because the media wants us to fail. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 The red card did not factor, and Julian did not refuse. Morgan Quarry's reply is below: "There really isn't an explanation to offer other than Colin is the interim head coach for this game and made his selection based on playing Finland. There is always going to be debate about player selection and this is healthy. I am sure Julian will be involved in the future, he simply wasn't chosen for this one game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 What a F. ucking tard! Colin Miller is an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Wow! So I guess Colin Miller doesn't want the full-time job then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gordon The red card did not factor, and Julian did not refuse. Morgan Quarry's reply is below: "There really isn't an explanation to offer other than Colin is the interim head coach for this game and made his selection based on playing Finland. There is always going to be debate about player selection and this is healthy. I am sure Julian will be involved in the future, he simply wasn't chosen for this one game." The only possible explanation then is that CSA has deceided to apply a uniform coaching and playing philosophy modeled after the womens team and Even Pellerud. When you play that style, there is no need for a player like deGuzman sadly, and the fans of teh game come out as losers. Prepare yourselves for the return of punt and run football. If we take our emotions and love of the game out of it, a uniform philosoph makes sense. Also it looks like that with the success of the womens team, the CSA has probably figured that they have now arrived on the world scene and whatever happens with the mens side will be just gravy. So who cares how we play and how unsuccessfull it will be at 40 degrees celcius or high altitude using punt and run, as long as teh women continue to do we will have put our stmp on soccer in canada. I fear that this is what is happening. Notice that Hume gets called for the MNT but not the U20 going Panama. He is a fixture, as he should be, on the WYC side, but he could have been better utilized by sending him to panama and calling Canizales who isn't eligible for the U20 side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Free kick The only possible explanation then is that CSA has deceided to apply a uniform coaching and playing philosophy modeled after the womens team and Even Pellerud. When you play that style, there is no need for a player like deGuzman sadly, and the fans of teh game come out as losers. Prepare yourselves for the return of punt and run football. If we take our emotions and love of the game out of it, a uniform philosoph makes sense. Also it looks like that with the success of the womens team, the CSA has probably figured that they have now arrived on the world scene and whatever happens with the mens side will be just gravy. So who cares how we play and how unsuccessfull it will be at 40 degrees celcius or high altitude using punt and run, as long as teh women continue to do we will have put our stmp on soccer in canada. I fear that this is what is happening. Notice that Hume gets called for the MNT but not the U20 going Panama. He is a fixture, as he should be, on the WYC side, but he could have been better utilized by sending him to panama and calling Canizales who isn't eligible for the U20 side. I hope its premature to be reaching this conclusion. Can't say though, that you are worring needlesly. Miller, obviously, has decided upon a style that most of us at least, would rather see go the way of the dinosaur. Whether this is a CSA sanctioned direction, I guess, will be determined in the next few months as a permanent coach is hired and the preliminary rounds of World Cup Qualifying begin. I harken back to Jason DeVos's commnets on the Wigan site which seemed to indicate that the players wanted to leave that style behind. I hope they hold sway. Unfortunately, I will be trying desperately to figure out how the programming function on my VCR works tonight as I will be in Watson, SK for a Wedding Reception when the game is broadcast. No internet, no cable, no way of finding out what happened until Sunday evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Thanks Gordon for getting the explanation. Doesn't make me feel better though... Guess the nightmare continues.... Simply makes the decision even more confusing. I would have thought we would choose the best players available... We choose Brennan who was injured and hadn't played over DeGuzman who has been playing brilliantly? Wow.... So much for being selected on Merit. quote:Originally posted by Gordon The red card did not factor, and Julian did not refuse. Morgan Quarry's reply is below: "There really isn't an explanation to offer other than Colin is the interim head coach for this game and made his selection based on playing Finland. There is always going to be debate about player selection and this is healthy. I am sure Julian will be involved in the future, he simply wasn't chosen for this one game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 While I pretty much agree with everything said about the exclusion of De Guzman (and also Aguiar, Kluklowski, and Reda), lets remember that Miller is only interim coach. I for one do not believe that he is a serious candidate for the job. What coaching experience does he have? I think he led Hamilton Academicals into relegation and bankruptcy? And then picked up with the world class side Abbotsford? Even the CSA couldn't appoint someone with such a slim pedigree (could they??) Perhaps we should secretly hope that Finland kills us 5-1 just to underline the point (with 4 the goals scored by Litmanen nutmeging Fenwick's zimmerframe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I didn't want to say that maybe the best thing for Canadian Soccer in the long run may be a blow out loss. But now that someone has... The thought has crossed my mind. Brazilian coaches have been fired for far less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I think we need not only a loss but a complete debacle to force the kind of changes most of us here seem to advocate. Unfortunately, it would go completely against my nature to hope for such a scenario. I suppose I'll continue to naively hope that common sense will prevail and everyone within the CSA will do what's best for the program. I wish I believed my own Pollyanna bullsh**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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