John van 't Ship for Manager CMNT

[jpg75]

25 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Did you slip into dutch there or is that a typo?  

Figured it was appropriate for the thread...ok, it was a typoe

[Robert]

It's been a tough go of late for PEC and John van 't Ship, but with 2 matches remaining in the Eredivisie the Canadian-born coach's side is still clinging on to the final play-off spot. PEC will clinch that spot with win at home against Willem II this weekend, and an ADO loss.

League table[edit]

Pos	Team [  v t e  ]	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	PSV Eindhoven (C)	32	26	3	3	84	36	+48	81	Qualification to Champions League third qualifying round
2	Ajax	32	23	4	5	84	32	+52	73	Qualification to Champions League second qualifying round
3	AZ	32	21	5	6	66	35	+31	68	Qualification to Europa League second qualifying round
4	Feyenoord (X)	32	18	6	8	70	36	+34	60	Qualification to Europa League third qualifying round[a]
5	Utrecht (Q)	32	13	11	8	55	51	+4	50	Qualification to European competition play-offs

6 Heerenveen 32 12 10 10 46 47 −1 46 7 Vitesse 32 12 9 11 56 45 +11 45 8 PEC Zwolle 32 12 8 12 42 47 −5 44 9 ADO Den Haag 32 12 7 13 39 48 −9 43   10 Excelsior 32 11 7 14 40 50 −10 40 11 Heracles Almelo 32 10 8 14 43 60 −17 38 12 Groningen 32 7 13 12 46 50 −4 34 13 VVV-Venlo 32 7 13 12 34 49 −15 34 14 Willem II 32 9 6 17 47 61 −14 33 15 NAC Breda 32 8 6 18 37 56 −19 30 16 Roda JC Kerkrade 32 7 6 19 36 65 −29 27 Qualification to Relegation play-offs^[c] 17 Sparta Rotterdam 32 7 6 19 31 67 −36 27 18 Twente^[d] 32 5 8 19 36 57 −21 23 Relegation to Eerste Divisie

Ul

 

mm

[Robert]

League table[edit]

Pos	Team [  v t e  ]	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	PSV Eindhoven (C)	32	26	3	3	84	36	+48	81	Qualification to Champions League third qualifying round
2	Ajax	32	23	4	5	84	32	+52	73	Qualification to Champions League second qualifying round
3	AZ	32	21	5	6	66	35	+31	68	Qualification to Europa League second qualifying round
4	Feyenoord (X)	32	18	6	8	70	36	+34	60	Qualification to Europa League third qualifying round[a]
5	Utrecht (Q)	32	13	11	8	55	51	+4	50	Qualification to European competition play-offs

6 Heerenveen 32 12 10 10 46 47 −1 46 7 Vitesse 32 12 9 11 56 45 +11 45 8 PEC Zwolle 32 12 8 12 42 47 −5 44 9 ADO Den Haag 32 12 7 13 39 48 −9 43   10 Excelsior 32 11 7 14 40 50 −10 40 11 Heracles Almelo 32 10 8 14 43 60 −17 38 12 Groningen 32 7 13 12 46 50 −4 34 13 VVV-Venlo 32 7 13 12 34 49 −15 34 14 Willem II 32 9 6 17 47 61 −14 33 15 NAC Breda 32 8 6 18 37 56 −19 30 16 Roda JC Kerkrade 32 7 6 19 36 65 −29 27 Qualification to Relegation play-offs^[c] 17 Sparta Rotterdam 32 7 6 19 31 67 −36 27 18 Twente^[d] 32 5 8 19 36 57 −21 23 Relegation to Eerste Divisie

Updated to match(es) played on 23 April 2018. Source: eredivisie.nl
Rules for classification: Season in progress: 1) Most points won; 2) Less points lost; 3) Goal difference; 4) Goals scored; 5) Alphabetical order; End of season: 1) Points; 2) Goal difference; 3) Goals scored; 4) Head-to-head points; 5) Head-to-head goal difference; 6) Head-to-head away goals scored; 7) Play-off if relevant for deciding champion, relegation or participating in a European league, otherwise by draw. 8) Penalty shoot-out (only after a play-off)^[22]
(C) Champion; (Q) Qualified to the phase indicated; (X) Winner of the 2017–18 KNVB Cup.
Notes:

1. Jump up^ The winner of the 2017–18 KNVB Cup will qualify for the Europa League third qualifying round , if these winners qualify for the 2018–19 UEFA Champions League that spot will go to the third placed team.

Jump up^ Four teams play for a spot in the 2018–19 UEFA Europa League third qualifying round. Jump up^ Ten teams, two from the Eredivisie and eight from the Eerste Divisie, play for two spots in the 2018–19 Eredivisie, the remaining eight teams play in the 2018–19 Eerste Divisie.

[jpg75]

The Astronomer by Johannes Vermeer

[Blackdude]

The Passing Storm, Saint-Ferréol by Cornelius Krieghoff

 

I'm trying to put some Dutch-Canadian content in this. That's the best I could come up with.

[Robert]

I'll try to put some Haitian-Canadian content in this. Although I could come up with something better.

 

[Robert]

 

[SpecialK]

How long is a term for CSA  President ? Because hopefully if a new president comes in they can hire John and Dwight and they can take Canada to the next level

John van 't Schip - Manager Sr.Mens

Mauro Biello - U20/23 Manager 

Dwight Lodeweges - U17 manager 

i love the look of that

[Robert]

12 hours ago, SpecialK said:

How long is a term for CSA  President ? Because hopefully if a new president comes in they can hire John and Dwight and they can take Canada to the next level

John van 't Schip - Manager Sr.Mens

Mauro Biello - U20/23 Manager 

Dwight Lodeweges - U17 manager 

i love the look of that

If I were President of the CSA ... (Oh boy, I can just imagine what some of you must be thinking now ).

First off, no disrespect to Mauro, but personally I favour continuity. I would go with a Rocky Mountain trio. Plus, they have loads of European experience.

John van 't Schip - Manager Sr. Men's

Owen Hargreaves - U20/23 Manager

Dwight Lodeweges - U17 Manager

Also, the day that Christine Sinclair decides to retire, I would be knocking at her door with a life-time contract to oversee the entire Canadian Women's Program.

I would also guarantee all of the above, that I would not interfere with them doing their jobs.

 

[Grizzly]

5 hours ago, Robert said:

If I were President of the CSA ... (Oh boy, I can just imagine what some of you must be thinking now ).

First off, no disrespect to Mauro, but personally I favour continuity. I would go with a Rocky Mountain trio. Plus, they have loads of European experience.

John van 't Schip - Manager Sr. Men's

Owen Hargreaves - U20/23 Manager

Dwight Lodeweges - U17 Manager

Also, the day that Christine Sinclair decides to retire, I would be knocking at her door with a life-time contract to oversee the entire Canadian Women's Program.

I would also guarantee all of the above, that I would not interfere with them doing their jobs.

 

Would you still come on here and write posts complaining about what a terrible job Mont Robert is doing as CSA president? 

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Grizzly said:

Would you still come on here and write posts complaining about what a terrible job Mont Robert is doing as CSA president? 

Now that would be the epitome of self-centredness. Of course I would! 

[SpecialK]

2 more years of Steven Reed, we should start the  campaign for Ralph Krueger ( or someone else)  and John van’t Ship. 

May 6 2017 “Canada Soccer also elected a new president on Saturday. Steven Reed will lead the association over the next three years as Victor Montagliani moves into his new role as CONCACAF president and vice president of FIFA. “

[Robert]

6 hours ago, SpecialK said:

2 more years of Steven Reed, we should start the  campaign for Ralph Krueger ( or someone else)  and John van’t Ship. 

May 6 2017 “Canada Soccer also elected a new president on Saturday. Steven Reed will lead the association over the next three years as Victor Montagliani moves into his new role as CONCACAF president and vice president of FIFA. “

Does the CSA constitution align itself more with those of Russia, China and North Korea, or does it favour the democratic model employed by our neighbours South of the forty-ninth parallel, which states:

The Constitution defines impeachment at the federal level and limits impeachment to "The President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States" who may be impeached and removed only for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".

If enough Canadians really cared about their soccer, would they be able to rid themselves of bad management? If not, then it would not surprise me if Mt. Vic manages to elevate himself to the position of FIFA il Padrino one day, and in the process insulate himself from any possible criminal prosecution. 

[Robert]

 

JUST LIKE THE GOOD FOLKS AT GOOGLE, I WOULD LIKE TO WISH EVERY ONE A

HAPPY FANNY BLANKERS-KOEN DAY

 

 

[Ruffian]

8 hours ago, Robert said:

Does the CSA constitution align itself more with those of Russia, China and North Korea, or does it favour the democratic model employed by our neighbours South of the forty-ninth parallel, which states:

The Constitution defines impeachment at the federal level and limits impeachment to "The President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States" who may be impeached and removed only for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".

If enough Canadians really cared about their soccer, would they be able to rid themselves of bad management? If not, then it would not surprise me if Mt. Vic manages to elevate himself to the position of FIFA il Padrino one day, and in the process insulate himself from any possible criminal prosecution. 

Or maybe you could have mentioned the democratic model followed in Canada. You know the country of the team we support here on The Voyageurs website.

[Robert]

18 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

Or maybe you could have mentioned the democratic model followed in Canada. You know the country of the team we support here on The Voyageurs website.

I was asking if the CSA constitution has a provision in place for impeaching bad management? Having observed what has recently happened at the highest level of soccer, are we, or are we not, immune to similar behavior in Canada? In other words, what is "the democratic model followed in Canada?"

Politically speaking, I know from my frequently visits to the Legislative Library here in Victoria, that there are now strict security measures in place upon entering the Legislature, which did not exist prior to the October 22, 2014 shooting at Parliament Hill, in Ottawa.

Again, all I'm asking is; "Does the CSA have the protection in place to not find itself in a position similar to FIFA?" If not, that would be the first thing I would implement if I was president of the CSA!

In closing, to your implied question whether or not I support Canada, well that is absolutely ludicrous. On May 1st, it will be exactly 49 years since I immigrated to this country. If I didn't love Canada, I would not be here! As I mentioned above, if I were president of the CSA, I would only hire the most successful Canadian-born players and coaches to manage our Canadian national teams, and to date, that is something that no other CSA president has ever done. The facts back me up on that one! 

[Robert]

The 2018 collapse of PEC Zwolle is now an established fact. A 6-0 defeat at AZ Alkmaar caused John van 't Ship's club to fall completely through the European play-off ice, and finish the Ere-divisie in 9th place (with only the top 8 clubs having a chance to play in Europe next season). Will John want to stay at the helm of PEC next season after being unable to motivate his players enough to win more than one match in the second half of the season? Will PEC want to keep him after dropping from 4th place after 19 matches, to 9th place after 34 matches? Would the CSA be interested in acquiring his services if John Herdman doesn't work out? IMO: NO, NO and NO!

[jpg75]

Dear Robert,

Thank you for wasting our time.

Signed,

Anyone who read this thread.

p.s. you're welcome for the Dutch painter interludes.

[Robert]

6 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Dear Robert,

Thank you for wasting our time.

Signed,

Anyone who read this thread.

p.s. you're welcome for the Dutch painter interludes.

Dear jpg75

I won't bother posting any more photos of the 1957 Canadian Men's World Cup games in Mexico as that would really be wasting "our" (interesting how you speak on behalf of all Voyageurs) time.

Signed,

Just me.

p.s. Donkey smell

 

[SpecialK]

19 hours ago, Robert said:

The 2018 collapse of PEC Zwolle is now an established fact. A 6-0 defeat at AZ Alkmaar caused John van 't Ship's club to fall completely through the European play-off ice, and finish the Ere-divisie in 9th place (with only the top 8 clubs having a chance to play in Europe next season). Will John want to stay at the helm of PEC next season after being unable to motivate his players enough to win more than one match in the second half of the season? Will PEC want to keep him after dropping from 4th place after 19 matches, to 9th place after 34 matches? Would the CSA be interested in acquiring his services if John Herdman doesn't work out? IMO: NO, NO and NO!

Are you kidding ? Please tell me you are! 

So because his club had a tough second half of the season, the CSA shouldn’t be interested him ? Fuck he should had job after Floro was fired ! John has managed all over the world ! Mexico ,  Australia (  winning a championship ), Netherlands. He’s coached youth teams, pro teams and was the assiant for the Dutch national team in the World Cup. As player, he played Serie A , Serie B , Eredivisie, Dutch national team. 

Also he’s 54, he’s in his prime. He’s what Canada needs to become tops in Concacaf and to the World Cup. We have a great mix of young ( someone could say  generational) and vets players the time is now.  We a need a manager with pro, World Cup, regional experience and his is prime. Not some manager who is old, jaded and suck his old ways like floro and not some young no experience like Herdman. I worry because the CSA probably just wasted 2018 to 2022 with one stupid  decision.

 I’m gonna call it right now. We are gonna win all three games against the down feeders and Herdman is gonna go 4-0, everyone will praise his ass and he’s the saviour of Canada soccer. After that once we start playing against real  competition Herdman is going to get his ass kicked, then the  excuses are going to come out on here and in the media. “Canada is just not that good” “ we are not in the same  category as them” “oh we didn’t have this player playing “  “ oh we can’t win in South American” “ oh we can’t beat the USA but we can beat  El Salvador so it’s ok “ “ we don’t have the talent “ “ oh it doesn’t matter now because the plan is 2026 “ bull shit like that. Just watch mark my words. 

[Robert]

6 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Are you kidding ? Please tell me you are! 

So because his club had a tough second half of the season, the CSA shouldn’t be interested him ? Fuck he should had job after Floro was fired ! John has managed all over the world ! Mexico ,  Australia (  winning a championship ), Netherlands. He’s coached youth teams, pro teams and was the assiant for the Dutch national team in the World Cup. As player, he played Serie A , Serie B , Eredivisie, Dutch national team. 

Also he’s 54, he’s in his prime. He’s what Canada needs to become tops in Concacaf and to the World Cup. We have a great mix of young ( someone could say  generational) and vets players the time is now.  We a need a manager with pro, World Cup, regional experience and his is prime. Not some manager who is old, jaded and suck his old ways like floro and not some young no experience like Herdman. I worry because the CSA probably just wasted 2018 to 2022 with one stupid  decision.

 I’m gonna call it right now. We are gonna win all three games against the down feeders and Herdman is gonna go 4-0, everyone will praise his ass and he’s the saviour of Canada soccer. After that once we start playing against real  competition Herdman is going to get his ass kicked, then the  excuses are going to come out on here and in the media. “Canada is just not that good” “ we are not in the same  category as them” “oh we didn’t have this player playing “  “ oh we can’t win in South American” “ oh we can’t beat the USA but we can beat  El Salvador so it’s ok “ “ we don’t have the talent “ “ oh it doesn’t matter now because the plan is 2026 “ bull shit like that. Just watch mark my words. 

Obviously you have read the script. Your description above is exactly how every Canadian World Cup campaign has played out since 1986, and there is no sign of anything changing in the foreseeable future because the way the CSA manages soccer has not changed in all those years. There is no vision, nor structure in place. A great majority of Canadians, beyond the Voyageurs, follow the National Men's Team every time a new World Cup campaign rolls around. They show great support, which hits a point of reality and diminishes as we eliminate a Caribbean minnow against who everybody knows we should have played better against, despite proceeding to the semi-final round of qualifying. That's when we show our lack of professionalism by dropping a point or two we should not have dropped and wind up being eliminated by countries we are reasonably equal to in talent, but which are ultimately better managed than those the CSA hires. That's when the great majority of Canadians, beyond the Voyageurs,and the media  give in to those "“Canada is just not that good” “ we are not in the same  category as them” “oh we didn’t have this player playing “  “ oh we can’t win in South American” “ oh we can’t beat the USA but we can beat  El Salvador so it’s ok “ “ we don’t have the talent “ “ oh it doesn’t matter now because the plan is 2026."

Yes John van 't Ship has the pedigree and a CV we so desperately need, however, having followed PEC Zwolle very closely this past season, I was able to detect that defeatist attitude that players reveal in interviews when they know that they are not going to succeed. These attitudes were apparent months ago and John was unable to alter those in enough players to make a difference. So the questions are; is John incapable of motivating players when the pressure is on and the going gets tough, or was this a group of players that just don't cut it?

If John doesn't return at the helm of PEC Zwolle next season, and the brain thrust of the CSA believes that John was not the cause of the PEC's collapse, then this would be the perfect time to contact John and have a discussion.

[Robert]

http://www.peczwolle.nl/nl/nieuwsarchief/pec-zwolle-eindigt-seizoen-op-negende-stek2018-05-06

 

[Robert]

Well Canada, he's finally available? On Wednesday, PEC Zwolle fired John van 't Ship following a disastrous first half campaign in the Eredivisie.

 https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/2937947/pec-zwolle-ontslaat-van-t-schip

 

[longlugan]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Well Canada, he's finally available? On Wednesday, PEC Zwolle fired John van 't Ship following a disastrous first half campaign in the Eredivisie.

 https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/2937947/pec-zwolle-ontslaat-van-t-schip

 

Who gives a fuck?

[jpg75]

5 hours ago, Robert said:

Well Canada, he's finally available? On Wednesday, PEC Zwolle fired John van 't Ship following a disastrous first half campaign in the Eredivisie.

 https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/2937947/pec-zwolle-ontslaat-van-t-schip

 

Ever since you posted about him last year his club (and career) have nose dived. Please don't do the same to Dwight Lodewedges.