Loss of the National Football Stadium

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

Reminder why a hybrid field was rejected in the first place

BMO Field's grass guys feeling the pressure
Larson talks with the guys in charge of keeping the grass green
Kurtis Larson, Toronto Sun, February 05, 2016

A point of contention has been the decision to not install a hybrid grass system – a surface that reinforces a natural surface with artificial fibers.

Instead, MLSE has invested $400,000 in a pair of natural grass pitches currently growing in Mount Hope, Ont. They're identical to the pitch currently growing at BMO Field.

“Once you go with hybrid, you're stuck with it,” Hunter explained the decision. “You can't do patching or replacement.”

As Heggie affirmed, the decision provides something of an insurance plan, an immediate back up.

“If you have a hybrid field you're relying on growing grass from seed,” Heggie added. “There's no quick fix. When you have natural grass you have the ability to rip it out and put fresh grass in – thick cut grass that will stay down. You always have that in case of emergency.”
 

[Joe MacCarthy]

I see there are two likes on my post about the possibility of a hybrid turf surface being installed at BMO.  Am I to take it that you support that idea? 

Me, I'm not so sure, whether it is a good idea or not, judging by the cons posted above.  But I would think there are enough real world examples to prove the point, of its value, which then makes me think why didn't they install it in the first place?

[Kent]

5 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I see there are two likes on my post about the possibility of a hybrid turf surface being installed at BMO.  Am I to take it that you support that idea? 

Me, I'm not so sure, whether it is a good idea or not, judging by the cons posted above.  But I would think there are enough real world examples to prove the point, of its value, which then makes me think why didn't they install it in the first place?

I liked it and yes it was because I want a hybrid turf. I wanted it back when the Argos started playing at BMO field. At that time I didn't know about the problem of not being able to just replace it easily, but I have been thinking for the past month or two that this season is showing how badly needed hybrid is.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Why Toronto FC’s new pitch could be the last of its kind at BMO Field
Oliver Platt The TFC Report May 30, 2018

Many of us Toronto FC reporters developed a new pregame ritual earlier this season.

It involved making our way up to the press box at the top of BMO Field’s west stand, wandering down to the front row or on to the adjacent balcony and scanning the grass below.

Then we might tweet a photo and wonder: how is it going to hold up today?

As it turns out, grass coverage is actually only a minor aspect of the issues that have become a running storyline through Toronto’s season so far. The playing surface has been plagued by much deeper problems — in a quite literal sense.

“The plant doesn’t want to grow deep,” Robert Heggie, BMO Field’s head groundskeeper, told The TFC Report. “We’re trying to force it to grow deep and it doesn’t want to grow deep. And that’s the limitations of Mother Nature.”

Underneath the layer of turf you see at a soccer stadium is a root structure holding it together. The depth of that structure fluctuates depending on the time of year: it is at its most shallow — and therefore most vulnerable — in the cold of winter and heat of summer. When the roots do not run deep, the field can be unstable and give way underfoot.

A long Toronto winter wreaked havoc with Heggie’s field. As we sat in his office at the BMO Training Ground sheltered from 30°C heat, he reminded me that just six weeks earlier the city had been withstanding an ice storm.

On Saturday night, the troubled pitch was finally replaced. A private event at BMO Field meant that Heggie’s team did not start their work until 11 p.m. — hours after TFC II had played on the existing surface for the last time.

They were stripping sod until two or three hours after midnight. It was around that time that 18 trucks pulled up, each carrying 24 rolls of brand-new turf. Around 9 a.m. on Sunday morning, the prep work was done and they were ready to roll that sod out. The job was completed — for now — by 9 p.m. that night.

Toronto do not play again at home until June 13, but Heggie did not plan on wasting any time.

“If I took three days to do it and the field was almost there but not quite there, then it’s my fault,” he said. “‘Why didn’t you take 24 hours to do it?’ So I always try to do my best just so it’s [not] ‘why didn’t you do it this way?’ Because then all my bases are covered and all my guys are covered that we did everything humanly possible — now it’s up to Mother Nature.”

Having been laid with summer on the horizon, the new turf should be significantly more stable. A few weeks of spring weather had already started to have a positive effect on the existing pitch.

But there is a good chance the new sod proves to be no more than a short-term measure.

TFC are exploring the idea of switching to a hybrid pitch ahead of the 2019 season. Such systems do not come cheap, but Heggie thinks MLSE will sign off on one due to TFC’s increasingly long seasons and participation in the Concacaf Champions League.

Hybrid setups mix the benefits of artificial turf with natural sod. The surface on top is real, but its roots are held together by synthetic fibres sewn into the grass that provide the kind of consistency that can be impossible to maintain during the more challenging seasons.

A hybrid solution would not solve the problem of having to grow grass in the middle of winter. But Heggie found that part of the equation went better than expected this year; more troubling was the lack of stability underneath. That is where those fibres can help — and are doing so already in Europe.

“All of them have it,” Heggie said of the English Premier League’s adoption of hybrid pitches. “And you’ll see their stadiums in December and January and towards the end of the season, and from where the goalie stands to the 12-yard dot is just gutted. There’s no grass left in some of these stadiums.

“But it still holds together. You never see them slipping and sliding. And the reason it’s not slipping and sliding is because that hybrid solution is in there. It can look not great but it will always play and at the end of the day it is about playability, not aesthetics.”

The downside? A hybrid system means more work for Heggie, who would have to grow a new pitch from seed at BMO Field at the end of each season rather than rolling out turf nurtured elsewhere.

That’s a price he is happy to pay for more control.

“I’ll take the headache of figuring out the renovations and figuring out the other side of it if the players are happy and they get off my back,” Heggie said. “It’s no fun being a groundskeeper, because I feel like I’m defending myself against Mother Nature. That makes no sense.

“I’m not Darwin,” he added with a laugh. “I don’t control evolution — this is what plants do. Luckily I’ve been here nine years. I’ve opened up a lot of communication with Bill (Manning) and Tim (Bezbatchenko) and all these people. I told them in January that the field’s going to have a tough go until May.

“I know what’s about to happen. Last October, when we were talking about February, I said ‘this might not go well’ because it’s February — flip a coin and hope for the best. But we didn’t want to play in Rogers Centre and I get that.”
How Bradley, Giovinco & co. like their grass cut

A recent New York Times article about Manchester City coach Pep Guardiola caught the eye of Kyle Dubas, the new general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

The article described how Guardiola had asked for the pitch at the Etihad Stadium to be cut to a specific length: 19 mm. On the advice of City’s groundskeepers, who were more familiar with the ups and downs of the English climate, he agreed it could grow to 23 mm in colder weather.

Dubas was interested in the attention Guardiola was paying to an aspect of running the club that was seemingly minute. But down the street at TFC, players and staff have their own demands.

“Michael (Bradley) and Seba (Giovinco) and all these people, they’ve played in very high-end stadiums and they know what type of grass they want,” Heggie revealed. “They know what type of height they like.”

Heggie said he aims for three-quarters of an inch, which equates to Guardiola’s favoured 19 mm. That is as low as it can go: any shorter and he would risk damaging the grass.

“A few years ago, in the Aron Winter years, it would have been an inch or an inch and a quarter,” he said. “But now, as the team gets better, they want it faster and faster and faster.

“You have to listen to your players. And if the players don’t get what they want, they’ll find somebody who can get them what they want.”

[RS]

Oliver Platt runs an independent TFC/Canada site that could probably do without people cutting and pasting his entire articles into this board.

[jpg75]

Good point. Joe, you really need to stop copying the full article onto this site. Post the link and accompanying tidbits as a preview.

[Joe MacCarthy]

55 minutes ago, RS said:

Oliver Platt runs an independent TFC/Canada site that could probably do without people cutting and pasting his entire articles into this board.

Then go to his site, the link is above.  Two of us have just promoted his site.

[RS]

15 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Then go to his site, the link is above.  Two of us have just promoted his site.

Yes. "Promoted."

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

On 12/14/2016 at 9:54 PM, An Observer said:

one thing he is used to is ground sharing....Juventus does it with Torino; the two Milan clubs do it; Sampdoria with Genoa; and I think Lazio with Roma....so lots of football played on those pitches...a lot more than 10 extra gridiron matches.

Sigh.  I think gridiron has a different impact on natural grass than footy.

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

I'd welcome hybrid if it meant no groundshare but I'm pretty sure this recent media is to prep the transition and get people onside for what they intended all along. To prove natural grass couldn't be maintained for footy by the time gridiron starts again and even more damage makes it impossible.

If only there were places for a CFL team to play in Toronto on a fake pitch.

Good luck

[RS]

1 hour ago, Fort York Redcoat1555362293 said:

I'd welcome hybrid if it meant no groundshare but I'm pretty sure this recent media is to prep the transition and get people onside for what they intended all along. To prove natural grass couldn't be maintained for footy by the time gridiron starts again and even more damage makes it impossible.

If only there were places for a CFL team to play in Toronto on a fake pitch.

Good luck

Why would they have wanted that all along? Hybrid is not artificial, and costs much more than a fully artificial surface would.

At this point I'd argue it's paranoia to suggest there was a desire for anything other than fully natural grass to work, given the sheer amount of resources they've poured into it thus far.

[Joe MacCarthy]

20 hours ago, RS said:

Why would they have wanted that all along? Hybrid is not artificial, and costs much more than a fully artificial surface would.

At this point I'd argue it's paranoia to suggest there was a desire for anything other than fully natural grass to work, given the sheer amount of resources they've poured into it thus far.

All along I don't think ol' Redcoat understood what hybrid is.  And yes his post reeked of conspiracy gaga.

[Joe MacCarthy]

21 hours ago, Fort York Redcoat1555362293 said:

Sigh.  I think gridiron has a different impact on natural grass than footy.

And you'll likely be unhappy to hear that soccer is harder on a hybrid pitch than football is, if that comes to pass.  Most reasonable people have concluded that MLSE tried the noble experiment with turf and it didn't fare as well as expected because of the Canadian winter and not because the once exclusive treehouse is now shared.

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

On 6/1/2018 at 4:52 PM, RS said:

Why would they have wanted that all along? Hybrid is not artificial, and costs much more than a fully artificial surface would.

At this point I'd argue it's paranoia to suggest there was a desire for anything other than fully natural grass to work, given the sheer amount of resources they've poured into it thus far.

Sorry. "All along" since they agreed to groundshare. That's always been the problem. Not since '07. If they could've got away with the first fake pitch they would've. It was glorious to see what they invested in recently but as soon as the groundshare was announced there was no way the poor grass could deal with both sports for long. They did exceptionally well that first year and I applauded them for it but it would be a struggle to maintain or recover if the team is always so successful and impossible to repair by the time for gridiron comes. Poor treehouse.

[Kent]

Update:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-braintrust-responds-bradleys-harsh-comments/

"One thing that should improve is the playing surface.

Bezbatchenko says, when the calendar permits, the club plans to re-sod the playing surface with a hybrid surface that has natural grass attached to some artificial roots. While more expensive, the hybrid surface is said to be sturdier."

[Blackjack15]

53 minutes ago, Kent said:

Update:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-braintrust-responds-bradleys-harsh-comments/

"One thing that should improve is the playing surface”

Does the playing surface have anything to do with the Argonauts? 

[Kent]

3 minutes ago, Blackjack15 said:

Does the playing surface have anything to do with the Argonauts? 

I doubt it. I was hoping they would do this when the Argos move was first announced, but they tried to assure us the field would be fine. In the end it didn't take the Argos to ruin the field. All it took was a TFC playoff run into December, followed by an early start to the campaign with CONCACAF Champions League games in February. The deeper the roots, the stronger the field, and apparently in the winter months the roots aren't deep enough to hold up for very long. The hybrid field system should help create deeper roots to make the field more durable.

[Joe MacCarthy]

After mounting complaints, MLSE plans upgrades for BMO Field playing surface
Neil Davidson, Canadian Press October 16, 2018

Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment is moving to improve the much-maligned playing surface at BMO Field.

A new grass surface will be laid next month, with improved lighting and irrigation. And in April, the field will be strengthened by artificial fibres that will hold the surface together, protect the grass and reduce recovery time between events.

SISGrass is a reinforced turf system with 95 per cent natural grass that is already in use at Barcelona, Chelsea, Newcastle United and Glasgow Celtic stadiums or training grounds as well as the Green Bay Packers’ Lambeau Field. Using special machines, the artificial fibres will be stitched in during a FIFA international break.

“It gives the natural grass the ability to wrap its root around a piece of plastic, basically,” Robert Heggie, chief groundskeeper at BMO Field, said in an interview. “And it kind of acts like Rebar for the soil. It gives the plant something artificial to actually anchor itself into.”

Heggie says it will make for a more consistent surface for BMO Field’s tenants, Major League Soccer’s Toronto FC and the CFL’s Toronto Argonauts.

“Because whether it looks pretty or not, it’s always going to hold itself together,” he said. “Hopefully we can always have it looking pretty but you are always going to have that safety in the playability of that hybrid surface.”

Other BMO Field improvement plans include:

– Upgrading the 10-year-old irrigation system, adding more pressure and coverage.

– Adding more grow lights while re-lamping the existing lights.

– Upgrading the warming system controls so they are fully self-automated.

“We learned from it and here’s what we’re doing to make it better,” Bill Manning, president of TFC and the Argos, said of the grass problems.

The groundskeepers will use walk-behind mowers once the hybrid is installed. Toronto opted not to install a new surface after the 2017 MLS Cup because of winter and the short off-season. The grass took a beating from the get-go thanks to CONCACAF Champions League play. A new grass surface was subsequently laid in May.

“In some ways our guys have been playing on a little bit of a cow pasture,” Manning said at the time. “And it’s been very difficult. Mother Nature was not kind to us this winter.”

But a rescheduled June 13 game against D.C. United reduced the amount of time the new surface had to settle and complaints mounted as the season wore on. Heggie says a re-sod normally needs seven to eight weeks. He had five, which was reduced to 2 1/2 due to the schedule change.

“We can only push the plant so fast,” he said.

A hot summer didn’t help matters. The field, which is built on sand, got thinner and the sand began to appear on the surface, much to the players’ ire.

“The field here has really hurt us, there’s no two ways about it,” captain Michael Bradley said in May prior to the last grass installation. “That’s not an excuse but that’s the reality.

“The field is an amateur field,” striker Sebastian Giovinco said after a late-September win over New England. “We are professionals. We are accustomed to playing on a professional field. This is not a professional field.”

Toronto put in a new grass field after BMO Field hosted the Centennial Classic outdoor hockey game in January 2017. After the MLS Cup last December, club officials debated whether to install a new surface but elected to wait out of the concern that it might not take over the winter.

The new grass will be the sixth at BMO Field, which has undergone considerable construction to expand and improve the original venue that opened in 2007 with artificial turf.

The surface has also been an issue for the CFL, although its concern is the fact that the entire north end zone is artificial turf as is a portion of the south end zone. The difference in surfaces has caused problems, with players slipping at key moments.

Manning says Argos GM Jim Popp has approved a new type of artificial turf for the end zone “that will match much closer the new field we have.”

In other stadium matters, Manning is looking at reconfiguring entry into BMO Field because of the logjam at Gate 1 in the northeast corner which is used by 75 per cent of fans attending games.

He points to the Sept. 15 game against the Los Angeles Galaxy that attracted a crowd of 30,799. At kickoff, there were only 11,000 people scanned in with others waiting to get in or arriving late.

“We have to physically do something so people can get in quicker,” he said. “So we’ve got to re-imagine the entrances. It may not be a 2019 project, it may be 2020. We’ve invested in this facility, made it a nice place. But if people can’t get in …”