CMNT Depth Chart/Player Pool

[tovan1]

We need to start and sticky a CMNT depth chart/player pool thread similar to the Canadians Abroad thread, or do we already have one?

I've put this rough one together based on the CMNT wikipedia page. Includes players called for Gold Cup plus the previous CMNT camp/friendlies. Thoughts?

[table=width: 500]

[tr]

[td]Pos.[/td]

[td]Player[/td]

[td]DOB[/td]

[td]Age in Jun2018[/td]

[td]Caps[/td]

[td]Goals[/td]

[td]Club[/td]

[td]Club Level[/td]

[/tr]

[tr][td]

GOALKEEPERS[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]GK[/td]

[td]Lars Hirschfeld[/td]

[td]10/17/1978[/td]

[td]39[/td]

[td]46[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Vålerenga [/td]

[td]Norway 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]GK[/td]

[td]Milan Borjan[/td]

[td]10/23/1987[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]14[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Sivasspor [/td]

[td]Turkey 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]GK[/td]

[td]Simon Thomas[/td]

[td]4/12/1990[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Vancouver Whitecaps FC [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]GK[/td]

[td]Haidar Al-Shaïbani[/td]

[td]3/31/1984[/td]

[td]34[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Nîmes [/td]

[td]France 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]GK[/td]

[td]Kenny Stamatopoulos[/td]

[td]8/29/1979[/td]

[td]37[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]AIK [/td]

[td]Sweden 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]GK[/td]

[td]Tomer Chencinski[/td]

[td]12/1/1984[/td]

[td]32[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Maccabi Tel Aviv [/td]

[td]Israel 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]GK[/td]

[td]Roberto Stillo[/td]

[td]3/15/1991[/td]

[td]27[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Genoa [/td]

[td]Italy 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr][td]DEFENDERS[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Nikolas Ledgerwood[/td]

[td]1/16/1985[/td]

[td]33[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Hammarby [/td]

[td]Sweden 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Ashtone Morgan[/td]

[td]2/9/1991[/td]

[td]27[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Toronto FC [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]David Edgar[/td]

[td]5/19/1987[/td]

[td]31[/td]

[td]20[/td]

[td]1 [/td]

[td]Burnley [/td]

[td]England 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Marcel de Jong[/td]

[td]10/15/1986[/td]

[td]30[/td]

[td]26[/td]

[td]1 [/td]

[td]Augsburg [/td]

[td]Germany 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Adam Straith[/td]

[td]9/11/1990[/td]

[td]26[/td]

[td]11[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Unattached [/td]

[td] [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Doneil Henry[/td]

[td]4/20/1993[/td]

[td]25[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Toronto FC [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Nana Attakora[/td]

[td]3/27/1989[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]5[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]San Jose Earthquakes [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]André Hainault[/td]

[td]6/17/1986[/td]

[td]32-33[/td]

[td]35[/td]

[td]2 [/td]

[td]VfR Aalen [/td]

[td]Germany 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Dejan Jakovic[/td]

[td]7/16/1985[/td]

[td]31[/td]

[td]16[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]D.C. United [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Mason Trafford[/td]

[td]8/21/1986[/td]

[td]30[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Guizhou Zhicheng [/td]

[td]China 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Andrés Fresenga[/td]

[td]10/13/1992[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Racing Montevideo [/td]

[td]Uruguay 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Kevin McKenna[/td]

[td]1/21/1980[/td]

[td]38[/td]

[td]63[/td]

[td]11 [/td]

[td]Köln [/td]

[td]Germany 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]DF[/td]

[td]Michael Klukowski[/td]

[td]5/27/1981[/td]

[td]37[/td]

[td]37[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]APOEL [/td]

[td]Cypress 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr][td]MIDFIELDERS[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Julian de Guzman[/td]

[td]3/25/1981[/td]

[td]37[/td]

[td]67[/td]

[td]4 [/td]

[td]Unattached [/td]

[td] [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Russell Teibert[/td]

[td]12/22/1992[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Vancouver Whitecaps FC [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Josh Simpson[/td]

[td]5/15/1983[/td]

[td]35[/td]

[td]43[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]BSC Young Boys[/td]

[td]Switzerland 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Will Johnson[/td]

[td]1/21/1987[/td]

[td]31[/td]

[td]34[/td]

[td]3 [/td]

[td]Portland Timbers [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Issey Nakajima-Farran[/td]

[td]5/16/1984[/td]

[td]34[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]1 [/td]

[td]Alki Larnaca [/td]

[td]Cypress 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Pedro Pacheco[/td]

[td]6/27/1984[/td]

[td]33-34[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Santa Clara [/td]

[td]Portugal 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Samuel Piette[/td]

[td]11/12/1994[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Fortuna Düsseldorf II [/td]

[td]Germany 4 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Kyle Bekker[/td]

[td]9/2/1990[/td]

[td]26[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Toronto FC [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Jonathan Osorio[/td]

[td]6/12/1992[/td]

[td]25-26[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Toronto FC [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Keven Aleman[/td]

[td]3/25/1994[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Real Valladolid [/td]

[td]Spain 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Stefan Cebara[/td]

[td]4/12/1991[/td]

[td]27[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Celje [/td]

[td]Slovenia 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Atiba Hutchinson[/td]

[td]2/8/1983[/td]

[td]35[/td]

[td]64[/td]

[td]4 [/td]

[td]PSV [/td]

[td]Netherlands 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Dwayne De Rosario[/td]

[td]5/15/1978[/td]

[td]40[/td]

[td]73[/td]

[td]20 [/td]

[td]D.C. United [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Terry Dunfield[/td]

[td]2/20/1982[/td]

[td]36[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]1 [/td]

[td]Unattached [/td]

[td] [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Jonathan Beaulieu-Bourgault[/td]

[td]9/27/1988[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Unattached [/td]

[td] [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Philippe Davies[/td]

[td]12/12/1990[/td]

[td]26[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Richmond Kickers [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 3 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Matt Stinson[/td]

[td]9/9/1992[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Unattached [/td]

[td] [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Manny Gómez[/td]

[td]3/30/1987[/td]

[td]31[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Jorge Griffa [/td]

[td]Argentina ? [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]MF[/td]

[td]Patrice Bernier[/td]

[td]9/23/1979[/td]

[td]37[/td]

[td]49[/td]

[td]2 [/td]

[td]Montreal Impact [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr][td]FORWARDS[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Kyle Porter[/td]

[td]1/19/1990[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]D.C. United [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Tosaint Ricketts[/td]

[td]8/6/1987[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]26[/td]

[td]5 [/td]

[td]Sandnes Ulf [/td]

[td]Norway 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Simeon Jackson[/td]

[td]3/28/1987[/td]

[td]31[/td]

[td]36[/td]

[td]6 [/td]

[td]Eintracht Braunschweig [/td]

[td]Germany 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Marcus Haber[/td]

[td]1/11/1989[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]1 [/td]

[td]Stevenage [/td]

[td]England 3 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Randy Edwini-Bonsu[/td]

[td]4/20/1990[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Unattached [/td]

[td] [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Daniel Haber[/td]

[td]4/4/1992[/td]

[td]26[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Apollon Limassol [/td]

[td]Cypress 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Evan James[/td]

[td]6/19/1990[/td]

[td]27-28[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]K-W United [/td]

[td]USA/Canada 4 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Frank Jonke[/td]

[td]1/30/1985[/td]

[td]33[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Jaro [/td]

[td]Finland 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Iain Hume[/td]

[td]10/30/1983[/td]

[td]33[/td]

[td]38[/td]

[td]6 [/td]

[td]Preston North End [/td]

[td]England 3 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Olivier Occéan[/td]

[td]10/23/1981[/td]

[td]35[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]6 [/td]

[td]1. FC Kaiserslautern [/td]

[td]Germany 2 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Lucas Cavallini[/td]

[td]12/28/1992[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]0 [/td]

[td]Nacional [/td]

[td]Uruguay 1 [/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]FW[/td]

[td]Rob Friend[/td]

[td]1/23/1981[/td]

[td]37[/td]

[td]32[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]1860 München[/td]

[td]Germany 2[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

[Keegan]

It's been tried a few times it just won't be possible to come up with a master list because everyone has different opinions

[Gordon]

It's been tried a few times it just won't be possible to come up with a master list because everyone has different opinions

Base it on actual caps in the last 2 years and have Socceronly select a panel of wiseheads to figure out the "injured/not available/youngster being blooded/not getting caps but in the picture" permutations. It is not hard if there is a will to do so.

[Keegan]

Base it on actual caps in the last 2 years and have Socceronly select a panel of wiseheads to figure out the "injured/not available/youngster being blooded/not getting caps but in the picture" permutations. It is not hard if there is a will to do so.

Hey, that's not a bad idea at all actually. Maybe 5 guys?

The problem is that our most knowledgeable poster, Miro Kliment is no longer here. Still, I think it's safe to assume he would put Andrew at the top.

[thescottc]

The problem is that our most knowledgeable poster, Miro Kliment is no longer here. Still, I think it's safe to assume he would put Andrew at the top.

Let us not invoke the dragon.

Edit: Pretty solid list, except I think I'd break it down by actual position instead of just defenders, mids and forwards.

[tovan1]

Anyone is welcome to amend and revise. Cheers

[Addona]

I've been wanting something like this for a long time too ...

Edit: I'd like to see something where we list our top 4-5 at every position ... I know that this subject to opinion, but still.

Also, a finer breakdown is necessary: CB, LB, RB, etc.

And, a restriction like we can't list one player at more than 1 position ... Atiba can't be our top CM and RB.

[ThiKu]

This is fantastic. We can all come up with our own opinion. I don't think it should "rank" any player. Simply listing the top "6" CM for example, alphabetical. Top "4" RB alphabetical etc.

Any player not capped in a 2 year period shouldn't be listed. We could have a subcategory of "top 20 u23" players additionally, in alphabetical.

Tovan, you did a very good job.

[hamiltonfan]

Great idea. Add our boy rob friend though, i'm calling for a comeback with our new manager

[Guest Ed]

Did Lars find a Scandinavian fountain of youth??

[adrenaline11]

Does Simpson still count as depth? He has no timetable for return but a consistent performer in the past and will be 35 in 2018.

[TFC07]

Don't forget in 4 years, we can add some of current U-17 players to depth pool.

[johnyb]

I like it, but why show Age in 2018. Use current age and people can do the math. I get that WC2018 is the goal but in 2018 there will be players we haven't even heard of yet on this list.

[Addona]

I like it, but why show Age in 2018. Use current age and people can do the math. I get that WC2018 is the goal but in 2018 there will be players we haven't even heard of yet on this list.

Agreed. Plus, it's probably more important what their age will be in 2015 and 2016, when we try to make the Hex!

[Unnamed Trialist]

Agree with the idea and some suggestions.

We should eliminate players nowhere near CMNT level.

Makes sense to do 4 basic positions as a lot of players can move around, otherwise it is too complicated. I know there is a right back left back debate, but i can't see making an easy single post sticky on that basis.

The pool should be the current players and recent playing time, like last year or last 10 matches, plus anyone clearly close but not yet in the pool.

One interesting way to divide it up would be Starter, Bench, Challenger, on the basis of MNT appearances and minutes over the set period of a year or 10-15 matches. That way we could see who is waiting in the wings. Maybe then add an Injured for those with no appearances but on the depth chart.

[Sam]

We should eliminate players nowhere near CMNT level.

I think this kind of sentiment has hurt Canadian player development in the past. The idea that when we get to ages 20+ we should only be looking at players at the national team level. We see huge depth problems with this team and I think part of the issue is focusing solely on the 20-22 guys that make up the core of the team and ignoring the periphery that we may need to call on. I'm a big advocate of starting to introduce as many domestic only or European only based camps just so we can start putting together a pool of 50-60 players that are "in the picture" as opposed to focusing only on the guys who are at that level right now. Just as a quick example imagine if going into the 8-1 against Honduras our only real striker option on the bench wasn't Cavallini with one career cap but someone (maybe still Cavallini) who had played 10 or so games for Canada before regardless of the level who at least had some experience with the other players.

This is sort of the idea with the U-23 div 3 league that gets talked about a lot on here as well, let's get somewhere for everyone to play at a high competitive level regardless of whether or not they are at the professional level or not. So if you aren't MLS ready at 20, maybe after four years playing in the U-23 div 3 league you'll be ready at 23/24 to not only play in the MLS/NASL but also give our national team an option in reserve.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I think this kind of sentiment has hurt Canadian player development in the past. The idea that when we get to ages 20+ we should only be looking at players at the national team level. We see huge depth problems with this team and I think part of the issue is focusing solely on the 20-22 guys that make up the core of the team and ignoring the periphery that we may need to call on. I'm a big advocate of starting to introduce as many domestic only or European only based camps just so we can start putting together a pool of 50-60 players that are "in the picture" as opposed to focusing only on the guys who are at that level right now. Just as a quick example imagine if going into the 8-1 against Honduras our only real striker option on the bench wasn't Cavallini with one career cap but someone (maybe still Cavallini) who had played 10 or so games for Canada before regardless of the level who at least had some experience with the other players.

This is sort of the idea with the U-23 div 3 league that gets talked about a lot on here as well, let's get somewhere for everyone to play at a high competitive level regardless of whether or not they are at the professional level or not. So if you aren't MLS ready at 20, maybe after four years playing in the U-23 div 3 league you'll be ready at 23/24 to not only play in the MLS/NASL but also give our national team an option in reserve.

Sorry, but you can't include players who are still sink and swim. You can't include players who can't breast stroke yet (not sure if pun intended or not). No pool for a national team has 60 guys on the radar, you won't see that anywhere in the world. YOu are talking about Canadians Abroad plus Canadians MLS/USl, and we already have a thread for that.

U-21s is a whole new ball game too, they are just maybes for the future, maybe 1 or 2 of should be on your national team radar in realistic terms, the real standouts or role players.

So sure, follow younger players as they come up, your Olympic team and younger u-20 group, but no men's national team coach and no one with him should be the least concerned about any more than 30-35 guys who compete to make a 21-23 man roster for the the MNT. That means four keepers, 10-12 defenders, 12-14 midfielders, 8-10 strikers. That is a hell of a lot. And for sure Floro and son will scout those 35 guys, unless one starts playing in a way that really starts screaming for attention over a sustained period.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^Except that Floro is also the Olympic coach. Personally, I think we and Floro should focus on two separate groups: the '92s and older for Gold Cup 2015. These guys should be playing in whatever competitive friendlies we can get. And the '93s-'96s prepping for Olympic qualifying. They should be playing B level friendlies against Cuba, Haiti, Andorra, whatever minnow nations are close to wherever we have our camps. We probably have 22 players in each group who could legitimately be considered professional. Obviously, guys like Henry, Aleman, Piette, who already have MNT experience, would get you closer to that 30-35 number.

[Sam]

Sorry, but you can't include players who are still sink and swim. You can't include players who can't breast stroke yet (not sure if pun intended or not). No pool for a national team has 60 guys on the radar, you won't see that anywhere in the world. YOu are talking about Canadians Abroad plus Canadians MLS/USl, and we already have a thread for that.

Except almost all European teams have a U-21 team (which is essentially a U-23 team because of some strange rules) that operates year round and plays during every international break. This essentially means 2 teams and like I said a player pool of around 50. It is pretty impractical for Canada to operate a year round U-23 mens team especially since they would only have one short tournament every 4 years, but a European and Domestic team would work.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Except almost all European teams have a U-21 team (which is essentially a U-23 team because of some strange rules) that operates year round and plays during every international break. This essentially means 2 teams and like I said a player pool of around 50. It is pretty impractical for Canada to operate a year round U-23 mens team especially since they would only have one short tournament every 4 years, but a European and Domestic team would work.

I know you are right, but I am actually trying to respond to the thread topic: a thread for CMNT depth pool. Which I think, if done, should be a shorter list.

There is no question that u-23s are the basis for the senior side, since Floro said so his first day, that 80% of your future senior side is there in your lower age sides.

But that does not mean that they are there yet. Rarely you see a senior side with more than 2-3 u-23s and even less u-21s. I think Spain, an example I know well, has no one under 24 on the senior side. So your real pool is not the younger players at all. They still have a ways to go.

We have GC in 2015 summer, Olympic qualifying in late 2015 and are into WC qualifying the next year, meaning you have to have two teams. You are not going to make too many young players do all that as they¡ll be without a club team in a wink and you'll have screwed up.

[Jason]

Agreed. Plus, it's probably more important what their age will be in 2015 and 2016, when we try to make the Hex!

I agree with this. Our primary concern right now is just making it to the Hex. I want to see the best roster possible in 2016 so if any date should be utilized it should be this one. We should be using our best guys at the time of qualifying, not our projected best guys in 2018. I think we would all be happy to debate what to do with aging players that helped us to qualify but are too old for the finals.

Jason

[Canada1]

And if the Stars align in the coming years you can include Camilo and Koffie. Fingers crossed.