themodelcitizen Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I'd love to see the CC eventually involve more Canadian teams, with everyone having a shot (however remote) of playing in the final. Hopefully, the CSL's decision to suspend their "Open Cup" this season means that they see the CC as closer to being a true national championship and something that they'd like to participate in. As much as I'd like the idea of a one-off final at BMO Field (National Soccer Stadium) a la Wembley, I think the league format will be kept up for the ticket revenue of having the big teams face off against each other. There are a couple of options: bring in a fourth team, a "best-of-the-rest"; or have the 3 pro teams have to play a home-and-away playoff against regional champions. I would incorporate the National Challenge Cup winner, and I don't know much about local and semi-pro soccer in some areas, so if teams I've listed below already have access to the Challenge Cup, scratch them from the list if they can't handle the extra games. Throw in unrepresented senior teams I've neglected in the early qualifying rounds of that region's games. Early qualifying rounds could be done as two-legged or one-off affairs in regional zones, with every round knock-out (randomly drawn between teams listed) until the final league format. QUALIFYING ROUNDS</u>: WEST ZONE Qualifying round 1</u>: 8 PCSL teams Qualifying round 2</u>: 4 winners from Q1 2nd and 3rd ranked BC PDL teams from previous year Qualifying round 3</u>: 3 winners from Q2 1st ranked BC PDL team from previous year Qualifying round final</u> Q2 winners CENTRAL ZONE: Ontario/Manitoba Qualifying round 1</u>: Windsor DSL champions Kitchener DSL champions Quebec Qualifying round 1</u>: Teams from AA level Teams from A level Ontario/Manitoba Qualifying round 2</u>: Q1 winner Manitoba Major Soccer League champion CSL Cup champion Ottawa Fury (PDL) Thunder Bay Chill (PDL) Toronto Lynx (PDL) Quebec Qualifying round 2</u>: Q1 winner Teams from Ligue de soccer élite du Québec division 1 and 2 Extra rounds to reduce field to a provincial champion Qualifying round 3</u>: 3 Ontario Q2 winners Quebec champion Qualifying round final</u> 2 Q2 winners EASTERN ZONE: Qualifying round 1</u>: teams from PEI Senior-B league teams from NS Senior-B leagues in NS teams from NB Senior-B leagues teams from Halifax Soccer League (NS) teams from Highland Soccer League (NS) Qualifying round 2</u>: Q1 winners teams from Eastlink Premiership teams from NFLD Senior-A league Extra rounds to reduce field to a regional champion ROUND 1</u>: Canadian National Challenge Cup winners CIS national champion CCAA national champion West zone qualifying winners Central zone qualifying winners East zone qualifying winners ROUND 2</u> Six home and away knockout ties, 3 winners advance to final Pot 1: Montreal Impact Vancouver Whitecaps Toronto FC Pot 2: 3 R1 winners ROUND 3</u>: (final round) 3 R2 winners, league format, home and away WINNER</u>: Voyageurs Cup champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 This would kick ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I like the idea because when you do get a lower team on a roll doing the unexpected like Havant & Watterloville it is a very compelling story. I don't think anyone would have ever heard of them but now a lot of people like me can't forget it. I don't think the 3 major teams should have to play as much as they do in your system. Let all the minor teams play off and the winner gets to join the big boys for a home and away total point series. That would be 4 teams and 6 games each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussoccerfan Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 quote:Originally posted by themodelcitizen EASTERN ZONE: Qualifying round 1</u>: teams from Halifax Soccer League teams from Highland Soccer League Qualifying round 2</u>: Q1 winners teams from Eastlink Premiership Extra rounds to reduce field to a provincial champion There's a Senior-A league in NFLD, A Senior-B league in PEI, 5 Senior-B leagues in NS, & several Senior-B leagues in NB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 How can you include PDL teams if their season ends in early August? If they pulled a miracle and won they wouldn't even have a team together to compete in the Champions League. I think the easiest thing to do is keep the current format of a 3-team final Group Stage. But to qualify for the Group Stage each team must defeat the regional winner from the lower leagues. The team that gets to play TFC, the Whitecaps, or the Impact can be decided by an open Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themodelcitizen Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 quote:Originally posted by aussoccerfan There's a Senior-A league in NFLD, A Senior-B league in PEI, 5 Senior-B leagues in NS, & several Senior-B leagues in NB. Edited. Thanks. Couldn't find much on Sask. soccer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themodelcitizen Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph I don't think the 3 major teams should have to play as much as they do in your system. Let all the minor teams play off and the winner gets to join the big boys for a home and away total point series. That would be 4 teams and 6 games each. Well actually, that would mean the top 3 play just as many games as they do in mine. In both our systems, the top 3 have to play an extra 2 games than they do now. My semifinal round has 6 home-and-away series with the big 3 seeded apart from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachgrinder Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Perhaps moving "Soccer Day in Canada" to later in the summer would build up the hype for this as well, by having the Championship of CC as the highlight of the day. Great idea, one that I would love to see come to fruition. Questions: in your ideal model, when would the 'playdowns' begin and end? Who foots the bill for the travel that would be involved? CIS teams generally have limited budgets, CCAA even less. If the teams are being paid out prize money, the amateur status for those players would also be affected. Pitch quality for some teams would be an issue, as would pitch availability. PEACH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The problem with adding a team to the current competition is the gap between the 4th team and the others would be too large and it would screw up things like goal differential. Each of the three teams playing a regional champion would be decent but the problem would be one of timing. The tournament for the smaller teams would probably consist of a large number of teams and a winner would have to be found fairly early in the season so it would be hard to hold because of weather conditions. The only way I can see this solved would be to really limit the number of teams in the competiton or to have the competition take place all summer and the winner gets to play against the professional team in next year's competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Any team playing in the CC should be able to keep the bulk of its squad together year round since the whole point is to qualify a Canadian representative for CONCACAF club competition. This rules out PDL teams as well as several amateur teams unless their players can take significant time off work. If CSL/PCSL teams have the resources to train and play into October and possibly beyond, they should be the next looked at for expanding the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I agree with TMC. I've been a big supporter of a Canadian FA Cup. One day it will come (please CSA make it happen). I think the dream is that the top senior amateur clubs would gradually turn pro. Win events, get good gate, pay for travel then pay for players. The real problem has be touched on, no continuity! Look at the young players, some go to NCAA, some to CIS and some overseas to pro clubs. (Please correct me if I'm mis-informed) The PDL was set up to give NCAA (and CIS to some extent) a chance to play in a top league without losing that "amateur" status. Taking a look at some top senior club team rosters and most have a bunch of CIS players who are home for the summer. The CSA needs to better define the system. Too much is run by too many groups with different goals. Imagine a first step of the CSA and CIS getting together to have the CIS teams play all summer (May - Oct). That is 40ish clubs right away. Have each of those clubs support an alumni team (for players after their 5 years) and a feeder team (say U18). Each region would have a very strong base. Add in the current senior teams that you see at the Challenge Cup year over year .... bam, top notch system. I think it would be good. The CIS "brands" would be easy for the general public to recognize and identify with ("Hey, I went to that school, I didn't know our team was that good"). Would the general public go see UVic Vikes or Victoria Highlanders? UNB Varsity Reds or Fredericton Picaroons Reds? The other key is getting a competition on TV, year after year. I'm sure many are watching the CC and didn't know there were teams out there other than TFC. The CSA needs to keep this event going and keep the media interested. They have sold this on the strength that it leads to something bigger. That bigger thing needs to be on TV (not on bold or after midnight). The CSA needs to make sure that poker can be bumped for CL soccer on the canadian sports networks. Do I need to list them? FSWC I think is showing 1 live game per week, maybe 2. One USL-D1 game and one Argentine game. I'm sure they can bump an Italian league match replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 For this to work, any teams added to the mix have to prove they are full time (i.e. will remain in existence from the beginning of the tourney to the end of Champions league play) That would eliminate PDL and the majority of amateur teams that shutdown in August to let their players go back to school... Maybe this would inspire teams to 'professionalize' and become real clubs that aren't sharing their players with other organizations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 quote:Originally posted by aussoccerfan There's a Senior-A league in NFLD, A Senior-B league in PEI, 5 Senior-B leagues in NS, & several Senior-B leagues in NB. aussoccerfan you forgot the senior B league in Newfoundland (Intermediate League)....18 teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Guys, don't get me wrong. This is an amazing idea. I love it. But it's not going to work unless we persuade strongly the CSA, Gary Kaplan of the CSL, Joey Saputa and the Quebec provincial league, and the other provincial leagues scattered across Canada. All this is nothing but talk for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 quote:Originally posted by themodelcitizen Well actually, that would mean the top 3 play just as many games as they do in mine. In both our systems, the top 3 have to play an extra 2 games than they do now. My semifinal round has 6 home-and-away series with the big 3 seeded apart from each other. Damn I should add better on not attempt minor arithmetic when having a beer [8D] You are correct they play the same number in each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtimer Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 You put some good thought into this, but I can't really see the amateur teams in this at this point. I can see the CSL/PCSL play off to have one team play against the two USL-1 teams and TFC. That would work (although a Lynx-TFC match would be fun to watch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Its not so hard to devise a system to draw teams at Senior level in based on geography and regional playdowns.... leading to one team left to join the three current pro teams, As more team transistion to pro leagues ... you adjust the format always in mind of letting regional minnow in to develop at early stages. The CSA could come up with format and TFC etc. would need to sign on to be in Champions league for Concacaf...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 1st Round: The 8 teams in the Pacific Coast Soccer League do a 2 game aggregate against an opponent for 4 winners 2nd round: The 6 USL PDL Canadian teams doing straight knockout against eachother in a 2 game aggregate The 4 best Canadian teams in the Pacific Coast Soccer League doing a 2 game aggregate in straight knockout. This is left with 3 USL PDL teams and 2 PCSL teams. 3rd round: CSL 2nd place, CSL 3rd place, CSL 4th place, (top 4 teams decided in their playoffs from previous season), 3 USL PDL qualifiers and 2 PCSL qualifiers. These 8 teams do a 2 game aggregate to determine 4 winners. 4th round (Quarter finals): 4 3rd round winners face Toronto FC, Montreal Impact, Vancouver Whitecaps, CSL Champions in 2 game aggregate. 5th Round (Semi finals): 4 winners play a knockout phase in a 2 game aggregate 6th Round (final): 2 winners play in the Voyageurs cup final at BMO field to determine Voyageur Cup winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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